Catcher in the Rye - Criminal Minds

[LizzieAnn]

Last night I finally saw the episode of Criminal Minds that I had taped on Wednesday night. Imagine my surprise when Catcher in the Rye was mentioned. According to the behavioral analysis agents: "Catcher in the Rye" is widely accepted as a love book of sociopaths....deranged minds identify with Holden's alienation and detachment."

What! I know this is TV and isn't necessarily true. But this show just seems so logical and clinical, that I am going to check this out. Has anyone else every heard/read anything like this? This totally threw me, and I'm wondering if there's any truth to this - if this is really considered so by profilers.

Almost every teenager who's read Catcher in the Rye likes it. I know I did, and I'm planning to start re-reading it today. I finally found my old copy. I know it's been years since I've read it and that I'm far from being a teenager, but, I still anticipate enjoying it.

[luvengolf]

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LizzieAnn wrote:
Last night I finally saw the episode of Criminal Minds that I had taped on Wednesday night. Imagine my surprise when Catcher in the Rye was mentioned. According to the behavioral analysis agents: "Catcher in the Rye" is widely accepted as a love book of sociopaths....deranged minds identify with Holden's alienation and detachment."

What! I know this is TV and isn't necessarily true. But this show just seems so logical and clinical, that I am going to check this out. Has anyone else every heard/read anything like this? This totally threw me, and I'm wondering if there's any truth to this - if this is really considered so by profilers.

Almost every teenager who's read Catcher in the Rye likes it. I know I did, and I'm planning to start re-reading it today. I finally found my old copy. I know it's been years since I've read it and that I'm far from being a teenager, but, I still anticipate enjoying it.

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I can understand why Catcher would be a favorite of criminal minds. I just finished reading it for a college course. Personally, I liked the book but I thought it was a little overdone. It is definitely a book for adolescents. (of course this is just how I see it) But, Holden is continually alerting the reader of his unhappiness with "phonies" and mentions throughout the novel that he is depressed and alienated. A sociopath or other mentally disturbed criminal probably could identify with Holden.

[fanuzzir]

If Catcher in the Rye is the classic fifties novel, then maybe we should look at all the weired homocidal adolescents of the era--wasn't this the time of Leopold and Loeb, and Starkweather, and the In Cold Blood Killers (oops, that was the sixties.) But you get the idea. The ultimate adolescent cool posture was to be defiant to the point of murder! That's not to say that Salinger wrote a homocidal novel. But I think it was a mainstream version of a sociopathic attitude. I can see where the writers of the TV show tried to make it relevant.

[holyboy]

Looking back, I think "Catcher" is more a book of rebellion than of sociopathology. Its appeal to adolescents may be in that, as adolescence is a time of of growing self-awareness and defining self against the world of adults and others.

Perhaps the **Criminal Minds** comment should be taken as fiction. After all, probably millions of people (not millions of sociopaths) have read and liked the book. So it's kind of like saying the Bible is a favorite of sociopaths -- not very helpful for purposes of detection.

[holyboy]

Holden Caulfield looks at the adult world and society and sees "phonies." Thoreau looks at society and sees most people living lives of quiet desperation. The difference is, Holden is institutionalized. I wonder how Thoreau would have been treated had he lived in the fifties, going off, living by himself, refusing to pay taxes. Would he have wound up like some Randle McMurphy, (remember One Few Over the Cuckoo's Nest?), getting electroshock therapy and institutionalized like Holden?

[fanuzzir]

You bring up a great point--there are so many fifties and sixties rebellion story that take for granted the pathological nature of the same, and the job of institutions like mental hospitals to stifle it. The actual object of rebellion--war, civil rights, etc. gets lost.

[holyboy]

Bob,

Since there doesn't seem to be much interest in discussing this book, maybe you should close out the thread. I liked the idea of your organized approach for Moby Dick and look forward to that discussion starting December 26. Maybe we can revisit Catcher some time in the future.

[fanuzzir]

There's no way to close it down, unfortunately; it just has to stay here and add clutter. All I can do is try to float it down to the bottom.

[platinumpink]

I read it and I liked it...I read it because it looked interesting!
However, I didn't like how it had no real beginning and no real ending.

[kiakar]

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platinumpink wrote:
I read it and I liked it...I read it because it looked interesting!
However, I didn't like how it had no real beginning and no real ending.

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I hate books that turn out that way! Glad I didnt read it!

[chad]

I can pick up a copy of "Catcher" and read it concomitantly with "Gatsby." I saw a "Gatsby" thread awhile ago. I'll see what I can read- I didn't feel like leaving the 1800's, but I'll return again with Conrad.

Chad

[CousinMary]

I read Catcher in the Rye after I was already in my 20's and I didn't care for it at all.  Of course, my husband has very fond memories of it from when he read it at 15.

As far as the criminal minds aspect goes, I'm pretty sure I remember hearing CitR was found in the collection of quite a few killers (the guy who shot Reagan to impress Jody Foster, the guy who shot John Lenin)  Sorry, I'm at work now and can't check my names   I think I remember it's on the watched books list with Mein Kampf and the Anarchist Cookbook.

[TiggerBear]

Ok well, "Catcher in the rye" has a dark street cred that has grown slowly into it's own mythology. I read the book back in high school, it was ok. Not dark enough for my teenage soul really, I found it quaint.

But it has these things going for it that grow its cred
1. It is in a lot of text books, as classic American lit. 50/50 chance someone read it high school.
2. It deals with a dark part of humanity that some people are unfamiliar with. It has an forbidden fruit quality for some.
3. A lot of murderers place this in their 10 ten list.
4. The CIA used to indoctrinate assassins with it. There is Mind Comp Ultra(which may be conspiracy theory fodder, but just might be true), Manchurian Candidate, ect...

[Timbuktu1]

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LizzieAnn wrote:
Last night I finally saw the episode of Criminal Minds that I had taped on Wednesday night. Imagine my surprise when Catcher in the Rye was mentioned. According to the behavioral analysis agents: "Catcher in the Rye" is widely accepted as a love book of sociopaths....deranged minds identify with Holden's alienation and detachment."

What! I know this is TV and isn't necessarily true. But this show just seems so logical and clinical, that I am going to check this out. Has anyone else every heard/read anything like this? This totally threw me, and I'm wondering if there's any truth to this - if this is really considered so by profilers.

Almost every teenager who's read Catcher in the Rye likes it. I know I did, and I'm planning to start re-reading it today. I finally found my old copy. I know it's been years since I've read it and that I'm far from being a teenager, but, I still anticipate enjoying it.

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Fascinating! Teen-age minds=criminal minds? Teen-agers do not have fully developed frontal cortexes. Their judgment is not highly developed. There ability to inhibit impulses is less that optimum. Come to think of it, makes sense that criminals and teen-agers would have some things in common!

[Timbuktu1]

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holyboy wrote:
Looking back, I think "Catcher" is more a book of rebellion than of sociopathology. Its appeal to adolescents may be in that, as adolescence is a time of of growing self-awareness and defining self against the world of adults and others.

Perhaps the **Criminal Minds** comment should be taken as fiction. After all, probably millions of people (not millions of sociopaths) have read and liked the book. So it's kind of like saying the Bible is a favorite of sociopaths -- not very helpful for purposes of detection.

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Fantastic point! You have a "scientific" mind!

[holyboy]

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Timbuktu1 wrote:

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holyboy wrote:
Looking back, I think "Catcher" is more a book of rebellion than of sociopathology. Its appeal to adolescents may be in that, as adolescence is a time of of growing self-awareness and defining self against the world of adults and others.

Perhaps the **Criminal Minds** comment should be taken as fiction. After all, probably millions of people (not millions of sociopaths) have read and liked the book. So it's kind of like saying the Bible is a favorite of sociopaths -- not very helpful for purposes of detection.

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Fantastic point! You have a "scientific" mind!

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Thank you (I think).   Ah, the thread that will never die!

[socalifgirl]

Catcher in the Rye really does hit a nerve. I read it in high school and recently re-read it after seeing a movie about John Lennons death, as told from the killers side. I really liked and felt a sort of empathy for Holden Caulfield. I can sort of see why people get a bit obsessed with it...especially when they are young.

Socaligirl

[Kaijek]

Leopold And Loeb was Chicago in the 1920's and their crime has more to do with Nietzsche than JD Salinger- or Holden Caufield for that matter.