Q to fanuzzir

[ziki]

Hi,

I wanted to ask you: what exactly is the point with this thread? I was interested in reading more of the classics but I do not feel this chat is meant to generate any such helpful discussion as we were previously used to on BNU.

Would you be so kind and explain the aim of this to me?

Also: as a moderator do you have any name or is your screen name the only face you will present to us here?

We participants are (sometimes as it is organized now) asked to make a little presentation, wouldn't it be reasonable for the moderators to do the same?

I for one would like to know a bit about your background (whatever you judge as suitable information in teh contex here) to know from which 'base' your literarry comments as a moderator come.

Here pops up a moderator, here an admin, here another moderator and all of a sudden some Bill...some lit editor is added and who knows who...

Well, in my opinion it would help to create a healthy sense of community if you BNU guys were a bit more defined. I hope also that you will forward these comments to the people responsible for this forum, whoever it is.

Thanks.
ziki

[Nadine]

---

ziki wrote:
Hi,

I wanted to ask you: what exactly is the point with this thread? I was interested in reading more of the classics but I do not feel this chat is meant to generate any such helpful discussion as we were previously used to on BNU.

Would you be so kind and explain the aim of this to me?

Also: as a moderator do you have any name or is your screen name the only face you will present to us here?

We participants are (sometimes as it is organized now) asked to make a little presentation, wouldn't it be reasonable for the moderators to do the same?

I for one would like to know a bit about your background (whatever you judge as suitable information in teh contex here) to know from which 'base' your literarry comments as a moderator come.

Here pops up a moderator, here an admin, here another moderator and all of a sudden some Bill...some lit editor is added and who knows who...

Well, in my opinion it would help to create a healthy sense of community if you BNU guys were a bit more defined. I hope also that you will forward these comments to the people responsible for this forum, whoever it is.

Thanks.
ziki

---

Hi Ziki

I decided to drop in on this group and see what it is all about. It is one of the few groups that is active. It looks like there are a lot good discussions going on. Some topics I am interested in, in fact I would say I'm interested in all the topics, but I didn't know they were here. I haven't read the books or have time to get the books and read them. There is no way I can follow what might be something interesting. My feeling is that this is an "in group" discussion and I'm an outsider. So here we are caught between a choice of groups that have no participants because there is no structure or conversational stimulus to a group with lots of disussion going on but is totally chaotic to the outsider who couldn't participate anyway because of lack of preparation. So here we are eager participants with no where to go.

Nadine

[Laurel]

---

Nadine wrote:

---

I decided to drop in on this group and see what it is all about. It is one of the few groups that is active. It looks like there are a lot good discussions going on. Some topics I am interested in, in fact I would say I'm interested in all the topics, but I didn't know they were here. I haven't read the books or have time to get the books and read them. There is no way I can follow what might be something interesting. My feeling is that this is an "in group" discussion and I'm an outsider. So here we are caught between a choice of groups that have no participants because there is no structure or conversational stimulus to a group with lots of disussion going on but is totally chaotic to the outsider who couldn't participate anyway because of lack of preparation. So here we are eager participants with no where to go.

Nadine

---

Stick with us, Nadine! We've been having a great conversation about "The House of the Seven Gables," which I just happened to have already in my library. We're starting to round up things to come--"Catcher in the Rye" (which I'm not interested in reading again) and "Moby Dick" (which I'm very interested in reading again)--and others. I think this group has wonderful potential. It just takes time for something good to get going. Things aren't what they used to be, but they never are, and sometimes they're better than they used to be. At least there's no casting of personal aspersions so far.

[Laurel]

Click on his name at top left of any of his posts and you'll find out a lot of interesting things about Robert Fanuzzi, Ziki. Look him up at B&N books and you'll find more. Laurel

---

ziki wrote:
Hi,

I wanted to ask you: what exactly is the point with this thread? I was interested in reading more of the classics but I do not feel this chat is meant to generate any such helpful discussion as we were previously used to on BNU.

Would you be so kind and explain the aim of this to me?

Also: as a moderator do you have any name or is your screen name the only face you will present to us here?

We participants are (sometimes as it is organized now) asked to make a little presentation, wouldn't it be reasonable for the moderators to do the same?

I for one would like to know a bit about your background (whatever you judge as suitable information in teh contex here) to know from which 'base' your literarry comments as a moderator come.

Here pops up a moderator, here an admin, here another moderator and all of a sudden some Bill...some lit editor is added and who knows who...

Well, in my opinion it would help to create a healthy sense of community if you BNU guys were a bit more defined. I hope also that you will forward these comments to the people responsible for this forum, whoever it is.

Thanks.
ziki

---

[ziki]

---

Laurel wrote:
Click on his name at top left of any of his posts and you'll find out a lot of interesting things about Robert Fanuzzi, Ziki. Look him up at B&N books and you'll find more. Laurel

Yes, Laurel,
I click away until I spin.
I am more concerned with the impression one gets visiting this site 'en face'.



Thanks for your help.
ziki

Message Edited by ziki on 11-19-200602:13 AM

[fanuzzir]

Ziki, my name is Bob, and you can read all about me on my profile. I'm a professor of 18th and 19th century American lit who's doing this for the first time. As you would expect, I'm looking for ideas, not necessarily to reproduce the way things used to be, but to start an informed discussion with its own patterns and habits. I'd love to have a book club member start a thread, make a kick-off presentation, or push the discussion along. In fact I'm hoping that someone will do that for Catcher in the Rye, a thread that needs that kind of initiative right now, or to do the same for Whitman. The fruitful conversations ongoing, Nadine, are those mentioned by Laurel in Thoreau's Civil Disobedience, and Hawthorne's House of the Seven Gables. The latter is organized by sections and chapters of the book; the former I've tried to restart by posting an insight from a contributor that draws us to the question of community in civil disobedience in general and Thoreau in particular. I hope you'll participate in either of those discussions, and look forward to hearing from you soon.

[LitWit20]

---

ziki wrote:
Hi,

I wanted to ask you: what exactly is the point with this thread? I was interested in reading more of the classics but I do not feel this chat is meant to generate any such helpful discussion as we were previously used to on BNU.

Would you be so kind and explain the aim of this to me?

Also: as a moderator do you have any name or is your screen name the only face you will present to us here?

We participants are (sometimes as it is organized now) asked to make a little presentation, wouldn't it be reasonable for the moderators to do the same?

I for one would like to know a bit about your background (whatever you judge as suitable information in teh contex here) to know from which 'base' your literarry comments as a moderator come.

Here pops up a moderator, here an admin, here another moderator and all of a sudden some Bill...some lit editor is added and who knows who...

Well, in my opinion it would help to create a healthy sense of community if you BNU guys were a bit more defined. I hope also that you will forward these comments to the people responsible for this forum, whoever it is.

Thanks.
ziki

---

When the book clubs started up last month I was a little bit sad because I had done BNU for so long and had really enjoyed it. When it was replaced by this at first I was a little disappointed, it was so different from what I was used to! But I found this book club/thread and started to really enjoy it. Maybe its not like BNU, but its still enjoyable. But whats not enjoyable? Hearing people constantly complaining about Barnes and Noble Book Clubs and how its inferior to BNU rather than trying to PARTICIPATE in the conversations about literature which is why we are here. I loved BNU, but its gone. Why not try and make the best of this? True, some of the things and people from the old BNU are gone, but alot of it is still the same. There are lots of new people and we are all trying to get to know one another, but we have people like Laurel and Choiysa who are veteran members and I know I always enjoy hearing what they have to say. So why can't we all just participate and talk about literature and our lives like we used to? If anything were to make me stop participating in these book clubs it would be the constant complaining and bickering, not the new format. I don't want to start an argument or anything, I'm just trying to enjoy these book clubs.

[ziki]

Hi Bob,
thank you for your reply. I appreciate it. Sometimes a bit of meta communication helps to clarify things. It is great to hear that you use your creativity here.

My only concern would be that some discussion can be easy to follow for those who already read a mentioned book but not that easy to follow for those who yet didn't.

But I guess that out of a brainstorm whirl some good ideas will emerge in time.

ziki

Message Edited by ziki on 11-20-200609:07 AM

[ziki]

Lit Wit20,
I do participate but in my own way and that has to be so. I do not put any "vs" in my thinking about the matter. However, I can have my preferences about what works best for me when it comes to "reading together with others". It is not necessarily the same that works best for you.

There were good things in the old lay out and they surely could be incorporated as well a new invigorating approaches and tricks can thrive. So please allow whatever is going on as I do and keep participating as I do but it is hardly helpful to tell people how they should do it to please you. And if you are frustrated rest assured that you are not alone even if reasons for it might be different for each and everyone.

It's good time to let this cauldron simmer, dear. It's most unfortunate that you judge such contributions as bickering and speak in such general terms. I found a lot of good ideas in the posts that suggest what could be done to improve the forum. I just hope someone responsible listens to that talk without passing negative judgements about it.

Now, let's have a pleasant reading day :-)

ziki

Message Edited by ziki on 11-20-200609:04 AM

[LitWit20]

---

ziki wrote:
Lit Wit20,
I do participate but in my own way and that has to be so. I do not put any "vs" in my thinking about the matter. However, I can have my preferences about what works best for me when it comes to "reading together with others". It is not necessarily the same that works best for you.

There were good things in the old lay out and they surely could be incorporated as well a new invigorating approaches and tricks can thrive. So please allow whatever is going on as I do and keep participating as I do but it is hardly helpful to tell people how they should do it to please you. And if you are frustrated rest assured that you are not alone even if reasons for it might be different for each and everyone.

It's good time to let this cauldron simmer, dear. It's most unfortunate that you judge such contributions as bickering and speak in such general terms. I found a lot of good ideas in the posts that suggest what could be done to improve the forum. I just hope someone responsible listens to that talk without passing negative judgements about it.

Now, let's have a pleasant reading day :-)

ziki

Message Edited by ziki on 11-20-200609:04 AM

---

Ziki-

I'm terribly sorry if you thought my post was a rant on you, I see how since I replied to your message with my thoughts it could be percieved that way. However it was not, I'm just tired of reading post after post after post on just constant complaints. But I disagree with your comment of "So please allow whatever is going on as I do and keep participating as I do but it is hardly helpful to tell people how they should do it to please you" because when I read post after post on how this or that should be done it seems like alot of people are wanting things to be done to please them, nothing needs to be done to please me cause I like things the way they are! Yes its not perfect, but what in this world is?? There just seems to be alot of negativity on here and it makes it very unpleasant to participate sometimes. And I think if I have to read people complaining about the site, then I'm within my right to complain about all the complaining. But I offer you an olive branch Ziki- we have differing opinions and I respect that. Now I must go, I'm trying to get through the first seven chapters of House of Seven Gables still! I know I'm lagging....

[fanuzzir]

I think this is where I come in! I am being very honest when I tell you all that I love provocation and challenges, so thank you Ziki for getting involved. I've found that sometimes there's a fine line between tension and lively discussion, so no one has to apologize for anything--you all have a stake in making a discourse as productive and meaningful as possible. Silence, that I worry about; where are you Nadine?

Let me talk out of school for a moment and ask you all to give me some background about BNU--your experience, what worked, what you liked about it, etc. I'm hearing alot about people's wonderful experience. This is a less "university" model, as you may have grasped; the more guided discussion is called a featured discussion, which I'll be leading on The Jungle in 2007. But what would you want put back into this new club model--whatever you want to say about it, this format is flexible.

Let's hear more. Bob

[fanuzzir]

Ziki, I am still struggling with keeping up, and getting into discussions of books I am not reading as quickly as others. One way the BN people want me to handle this is to let interested readers take a thread and run with it. But maybe we can put together a more casual discussion thread where we talk about this and that, without pressure to get through a book. Community forums may be the answer, but I'm still learning about them . . .

[Choisya]

---

fanuzzir wrote:
I think this is where I come in! I am being very honest when I tell you all that I love provocation and challenges, so thank you Ziki for getting involved. I've found that sometimes there's a fine line between tension and lively discussion, so no one has to apologize for anything--you all have a stake in making a discourse as productive and meaningful as possible. Silence, that I worry about; where are you Nadine?

Let me talk out of school for a moment and ask you all to give me some background about BNU--your experience, what worked, what you liked about it, etc. I'm hearing alot about people's wonderful experience. This is a less "university" model, as you may have grasped; the more guided discussion is called a featured discussion, which I'll be leading on The Jungle in 2007. But what would you want put back into this new club model--whatever you want to say about it, this format is flexible.

Let's hear more. Bob

---

I have only just caught up with this post fanuzzir/Bob: I see you are leading a 'featured discussion' in 2007 - will this be more like the old BNU discussions, with some structure and chapter headings, analyses etc? Because that is what is missing here. There has scarcely been any discussion of these new titles, just list and lists and other books folks would like to read and their comments thereto. What worked on the old website is that one could see at a glance what chapters were being read and what readers were saying. One did not have to spend valuable time searching for threads but could come back daily to those already there. Endless discussion on favourite books was limited to the Community Room and if 'off topic' subjects strayed into the main discussion area, readers were gently persuaded to take them to the CR. Here there is no discipline whatsoever - as I have said elsewhere, it is like being in a school classroom without the teacher! There are also far too many books up for discussion with far too many open-ended discussions ensuing. If BNU want to advertise their list of current publications, there should be a better way of doing it than putting them all up for supposed discussion.

I am sorry to complain yet again but as an elderly person living alone, often suffering from insomnia and sometimes from 'winter sadness', I had found the BNU discussions an absolute lifleine and have valued the many friends I had made (several no longer participating because of the changes). I am so disappointed and upset by the complexity of the new set up and especially by its seeming inability to promote proper discussion that I have several times been moved to tears of frustration

I therefore very much look forward to your 'featured discussion' in January in the hope it will be more like the old format, because for now I am too dispirited to enter into discussion on any of the books featured here

(BTW lest you think that I find the new set-up difficult because I am a computer-illiterate, I help to run another website with a very popular forum, which consistently ranks in the top three of its genre on the internet.)

[donyskiw]

Bob, my frustration is that I have not read some of these books since high school and some of them I haven't read at all. While I don't want to miss out on anything, I'm afraid that the other aspects of my life prevent me from reading all of the books and stories people keep coming up with. On the previous BNU, we had up to three featured classics each month and they were occassionally repeated. This one was to start with Leaves of Grass but it had no forwarning so I got a late start waiting for my book to arrive. By the time I got it and started to read it, we had a discussion on "Civil Disobedience" and started on House of the Seven Gables which I happened to already have on my shelf. Then we vote on Catcher in the Rye and Moby Dick and both win. The former I read in high school but don't own, the latter I have not read yet and do not own. Now we are going to read short stories and I'm not sure as I sit here (at work, my books are at home) which of those stories I have on my shelves and which I have to acquire. In another area, A Christmas Carol has been offered but it never appeared on the Coming Soon page. So, I have to go to the bookstore to get it. I never read it before in the original form by Dickens. This is getting to be a logistical nightmare. When am I supposed to get all of this reading done? These book clubs are not supposed to feel like an English lit class. I've been hearing over and over and over the request for structure. That single word has been repeated in many postings by many people. One of the reasons I like BNU's book discussions rather than face-to-face book clubs is because I got an indepth experience out of a classic rather than a one hour rambling discussion of the book and one hour of socializing. Do we have to discuss all of these books at the same time?

Denise

Message Edited by donyskiw on 11-22-200609:13 AM

[Nadine]

---

fanuzzir wrote:
I think this is where I come in! I am being very honest when I tell you all that I love provocation and challenges, so thank you Ziki for getting involved. I've found that sometimes there's a fine line between tension and lively discussion, so no one has to apologize for anything--you all have a stake in making a discourse as productive and meaningful as possible. Silence, that I worry about; where are you Nadine?

Let me talk out of school for a moment and ask you all to give me some background about BNU--your experience, what worked, what you liked about it, etc. I'm hearing alot about people's wonderful experience. This is a less "university" model, as you may have grasped; the more guided discussion is called a featured discussion, which I'll be leading on The Jungle in 2007. But what would you want put back into this new club model--whatever you want to say about it, this format is flexible.

Let's hear more. Bob

---

I am still here, Bob. Just a bit lost. I think you are doing fantastic job of trying to add some order to the chaos and responding to all the vaious posts to keep the discussions moving and on target. I don't know if people really appreiciate your efforts. This is probably one of the most active groups on the board.

I haven't read a lot of the books in this discussion group and in many of the others. I have purchased and started several books since this new B&N forum started up a month ago only to see the topics fizzle or the discussions way beyond what I have had time to read. I would very much like to join a discussion but now do not know where. Those who have already read the books can jump in and out of discussions as the topic interest them but, for those of us who haven't read the books and have limited time, there is no way to participate. I am following things but waiting for the "dust to settle."

I don't think you can do anything about that Bob. That is probably up to the powers that be. For some reason B&N seems to be ignoring the "Classics" category, which right now only has only two offerings--Frankenstein and everything else. With this new format it takes a long time to read through nine pages of threads just to find out what is going on. Every other category has from six to nine offerings and the "Other" category and most have less than 100 responses. You are doing the best you can Bob with the very limited resources available to you. You are at least trying to make the whole thing work. Thanks,

Nadine

[ziki]

Hi Litwit20,
I was away from the forum but thanks for your post. I am sure this all will lead to a fertile ground from which something new will grow. I understand how you mean.

NP
ziki

Message Edited by ziki on 11-24-200602:16 AM

[ziki]

---

fanuzzir wrote:
Ziki, I am still struggling with keeping up, and getting into discussions of books I am not reading as quickly as others. One way the BN people want me to handle this is to let interested readers take a thread and run with it. But maybe we can put together a more casual discussion thread where we talk about this and that, without pressure to get through a book. Community forums may be the answer, but I'm still learning about them . . .

---

I think this is an interesting lab. It is all part of a process of learning and becoming one own's authority.

I said elsewhere that on this new forum I feel like in a football stadium. Compared to a hotel (=the old forum) where I was walking into different rooms checking what was going on), sitting down, sipping tea, wine or poison and moving onto the next party.
It was all so 'safe'. Party time.

Now I had no idea to where to I was transported.

So OK let people take the ball and run with it, then others will pile on top of them, score and we start all over.I just need to put on some shoulder protection instead of skates.

I really wish to mention (again) a book by Carl Rogers called On Learning in this context..maybe we have a modern University here after all and we do not even recognize it. CR went to a room full of students, he put down the available material relevant to the study course and sat down and did nothing else. It takes quite a nerve, I tell you!
Then the theater started....oh my!

I guess I snatched the ball here and run with it in a fifth direction.

Please, don't be interrupted. Now I understand much better what is going on here and that is some progress, LOL. I'll see in time what I'll do with the classics.

Live and let live.
ziki

Message Edited by ziki on 11-24-200602:00 AM

[fanuzzir]

Choisya, I have two very different job descriptions for the two aspects of the job. Yes, the featured discussion will be more structured with me putting down segments of the book,giving ideas for discussion; behaving more like a professor in an online university etc; the book club you are a member of now is supposed to be more like an online community. My job there is to moderate, not to lead. I personally find the latter more challenging. I am still working on ways on cleaning up the site, but I do think there are still discussions worth having here, with the unstructured format and all. I'm very sorry for your frustration, and look forward to joining me in the discussion of Moby Dick and The Jungle.

[fanuzzir]

NO. I can't keep up.

[ziki]

hahah, this is so funny to read a couple of months later.....while I can have a chaos around and still know where about things are to be found and function well, in my mind I need a structure otherwise I get totally lost and freak out at once.....this is so obvious when I read my old comments here a couple of months later.

Well, I need to be kind to myself anyhow, don't I?

LOL
ziki