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bentley
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Re: A New Look for Book Clubs -- Eye Issues

[ Edited ]

Everyman wrote:


foxycat wrote:
As we all now have several immediate solutions, we can get on with our discussions while waiting for BN's wise site designers to see the error of their ways. Many of our regulars are sadly missing from the Lit by Women group, where we've begun "The House of Mirth."

Sadly, I'm one of those missing from the House of Mirth discussion. The site is still much more stressful to my eyes than it was before the new and improved version was unveiled. It has significantly cut back on the time I spend here while I'm waiting (hoping) for some long term fix.

I miss the discussions and people in the groups I've had to drop out of, but I can't afford to take the amount of aspirin I would need to to keep the painful headaches I get from using the site for more than about 10 or 15 minutes at a time under control.




Everyman, I just want to say that I am sorry to hear about your problems with your eyes, having gone through recently retinal detachments, laser surgery, vitrectomies and schleral buckles, diplopia, macular puckering, and you know. (completely out of the blue and btw..I have met many folks who have had the same thing happen to them and I am not older and neither were they). So it is not just older eyes which may be affected.

That is why I am very sympathetic when someone else had or is experiencing eye problems or low vision issues.

I hope things right themselves soon for you.

Message Edited by bentley on 10-02-2007 11:50 AM
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vivico1
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Re: A New Look for Book Clubs -- Bentley's "short term fix"


Everyman wrote:


foxycat wrote:
As we all now have several immediate solutions, we can get on with our discussions while waiting for BN's wise site designers to see the error of their ways. Many of our regulars are sadly missing from the Lit by Women group, where we've begun "The House of Mirth."

Sadly, I'm one of those missing from the House of Mirth discussion. The site is still much more stressful to my eyes than it was before the new and improved version was unveiled. It has significantly cut back on the time I spend here while I'm waiting (hoping) for some long term fix.

I miss the discussions and people in the groups I've had to drop out of, but I can't afford to take the amount of aspirin I would need to to keep the painful headaches I get from using the site for more than about 10 or 15 minutes at a time under control.


Yes, and when I raise the font to what I can read, then actually the drop down box and the pms are so tiny, then I have to raise them up to tell they are even letters so it does affect those things, if you raise the font for the threads and answers big enough to read. I dont think this is too bright, quite the contrary, I find the light tan, to dull so that the crispness of the letters is lost and that strains my eyes, I prefer in the areas where we read or write posts, for it to be a true white, the rest can be whatever color and will go with white fine. As for participation. I was in two, I dropped one because I cant stay on here enough to read all of two now without my eyes hurting. And as you said about your club, I am in the Moriarity author one and nearly 900 have looked in but only 9 have signed in at all, thats kinda sad, especially now that she's here. Well this was my eyesight time limit for this afternoon lol. Maybe try again later. :smileyhappy:
Vivian
~Those who do not read are no better off than those who can not.~ Chinese proverb
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Peppermill
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Re: A New Look for Book Clubs

[ Edited ]
After a couple days of mainly absence except for short periods of reading to catch up on postings for a couple of boards that I like to follow, I am back to b***h again -- not that I any longer have the hope I did for the first day or two that it might make a difference.

I do not understand, given the nature of the outcries, why B&N did not revert to the old format for a few days or weeks until the problems cited were corrected. My fear/concern is that these incremental fixes are being used in the hopes that the complaints will die away and users accept the changes. I even see some credibility to the possibility that some of us are being discouraged from participating.

As I posted elsewhere, the one-time product manager/ market manager/ systems analyst in me perceives an unfortunate lack of user and human interface specialist input to the techies. Although I agree with the web designers and others here that all new designs generally require a shakeout, I am indeed still surprised to see a major corporation that is an industry leader in publication roll out a major change of this nature apparently without adequate or perhaps appropriate testing. Usually if live users are to be used as a beta, they are informed of the situation prior to availability. If that did happen here, it did not reach those of us who had been interacting solely within particular boards.

As re-designs are considered, there is one other related to HTML that I do hope will be considered. Everyman has requested other participants to use the TinyURL capability to maximize the likelihood a page will be viewable within the width of a screen, especially for long URLS, such as those associated with B&N book entries. I, for one, have considered this a reasonable request and usually try to comply. However, this costs the ability to hover over the URL and see a synopsis of information about the book, a feature that I enjoy and that certainly must be a selling tool for B&N. I suspect several solutions are possible -- one that comes to mind would be the ability to cut and paste a book name with its associated link into a post. Another might be to publicize how to write, into a post, linking a URL to a book name -- I am presuming then hovering over the name could show the information of interest.

I want to say a particular thank you to Bentley for pointing out the Control + option; I am using it today. (It always amazes and delights me to find another of those "tricks" astute techies have built into systems and that most of us only learn by occasionally reading a manual, working ourselves through a learning program, or being taught by another.) But, as others have stated, this solution still leaves one with fuzzy letters. Personally, despite several changes announced over the past several days, I have perceived little or no improvement in readability over a format with which I had been functionally content for a number of months.

Others have commented on liking the appearance of the new format. I, however, will vote with those who ask for functionality first. As someone said, "you want to read it, too?"

Again, these are not issues I place entirely on the developers. Those responsible for the business and market management must bear equal accountability. This format change and its handling do and will speak loudly about those aspects of B&N, albeit possibly to a small percentage of B&N customers.

Thank you for "listening".

Message Edited by Peppermill on 10-02-2007 03:53 PM
"Seize the moments of happiness, love and be loved! That is the only reality in the world, all else is folly. It is the one thing we are interested in here." -- Leo Tolstoy
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Peppermill
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Re: A New Look for Book Clubs

[ Edited ]

Peppermill wrote {excerpt}:
As re-designs are considered, there is one other related to HTML that I do hope will be considered. Everyman has requested other participants to use the TinyURL capability to maximize the likelihood a page will be viewable within the width of a screen, especially for long URLS, such as those associated with B&N book entries. I, for one, have considered this a reasonable request and usually try to comply. However, this costs the ability to hover over the URL and see a synopsis of information about the book, a feature that I enjoy and that certainly must be a selling tool for B&N. I suspect several solutions are possible -- one that comes to mind would be the ability to cut and paste a book name with its associated link into a post. Another might be to publicize how to write, into a post, linking a URL to a book name -- I am presuming then hovering over the name could show the information of interest.

AHA -- I may have answered my own question. This sequence from a post elsewhere by Jessica is probably the model for coding the URL as requested above. (If anyone wants to read this example and see the coding, they will need to start to reply to this message and select "Quote Post".)

The Emperor's Children

Once I get comfortable with the coding, this will surely beat TinyURL!

Oh, but I am not getting the pop-up. Probably something else to learn yet?

Message Edited by Peppermill on 10-02-2007 04:25 PM
"Seize the moments of happiness, love and be loved! That is the only reality in the world, all else is folly. It is the one thing we are interested in here." -- Leo Tolstoy
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Everyman
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Re: A New Look for Book Clubs -- Eye Issues


bentley wrote:
I am sorry to hear about your problems with your eyes, having gone through recently retinal detachments, laser surgery, vitrectomies and schleral buckles, diplopia, macular puckering, and you know.

Boy, do I know. I've had two serious retinal detachments, one corrected with laser surgery, one with cryo, but both retinas still a bit of a mess. One schleral buckle. One retinal peel. One vitrectomy done and one waiting to be done. A macular hole not corrected by follow-up surgery. Still need to do the second vitrectomy. Cataract surgery on one eye done, the other eye is overdue but want to try to deal with the macular hole as well as I can before I put my "good" eye under the knife yet again. No diplopia, though, thank goodness.
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Choisya
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Re: A New Look for Book Clubs

Peppermill wrote:
As I posted elsewhere, the one-time product manager/ market manager/ systems analyst in me perceives an unfortunate lack of user and human interface specialist input to the techies. Although I agree with the web designers and others here that all new designs generally require a shakeout, I am indeed still surprised to see a major corporation that is an industry leader in publication roll out a major change of this nature apparently without adequate or perhaps appropriate testing. Usually if live users are to be used as a beta, they are informed of the situation prior to availability. If that did happen here, it did not reach those of us who had been interacting solely within particular boards.

Again, these are not issues I place entirely on the developers. Those responsible for the business and market management must bear equal accountability. This format change and its handling do and will speak loudly about those aspects of B&N, albeit possibly to a small percentage of B&N customers.

You hit several nails on the head here P and I hope some heads, if not rolling, are being knocked together! '...to see a major corporation that is an industry leader in publication roll out a major change of this nature apparently without adequate or perhaps appropriate testing' is a disgrace and will undoubtedly rebound on B&N's reputation. There may be a small and expendable percentage of users here but word spreads and the knock-on effect could be considerable, let alone the satisfaction their major competitor will get from observing/hearing of such a 'boo-boo'! Even if complaints die away or complainants leave in disgust/exasperation, the design problems remain obvious. And, as you say, why B&N did not (does not) revert to the old format whilst they sort them out is beyond understanding - unless someone has been stupid enough to delete it???





Peppermill wrote:
After a couple days of mainly absence except for short periods of reading to catch up on postings for a couple of boards that I like to follow, I am back to b***h again -- not that I any longer have the hope I did for the first day or two that it might make a difference.

I do not understand, given the nature of the outcries, why B&N did not revert to the old format for a few days or weeks until the problems cited were corrected. My fear/concern is that these incremental fixes are being used in the hopes that the complaints will die away and users accept the changes. I even see some credibility to the possibility that some of us are being discouraged from participating.

As I posted elsewhere, the one-time product manager/ market manager/ systems analyst in me perceives an unfortunate lack of user and human interface specialist input to the techies. Although I agree with the web designers and others here that all new designs generally require a shakeout, I am indeed still surprised to see a major corporation that is an industry leader in publication roll out a major change of this nature apparently without adequate or perhaps appropriate testing. Usually if live users are to be used as a beta, they are informed of the situation prior to availability. If that did happen here, it did not reach those of us who had been interacting solely within particular boards.

As re-designs are considered, there is one other related to HTML that I do hope will be considered. Everyman has requested other participants to use the TinyURL capability to maximize the likelihood a page will be viewable within the width of a screen, especially for long URLS, such as those associated with B&N book entries. I, for one, have considered this a reasonable request and usually try to comply. However, this costs the ability to hover over the URL and see a synopsis of information about the book, a feature that I enjoy and that certainly must be a selling tool for B&N. I suspect several solutions are possible -- one that comes to mind would be the ability to cut and paste a book name with its associated link into a post. Another might be to publicize how to write, into a post, linking a URL to a book name -- I am presuming then hovering over the name could show the information of interest.

I want to say a particular thank you to Bentley for pointing out the Control + option; I am using it today. (It always amazes and delights me to find another of those "tricks" astute techies have built into systems and that most of us only learn by occasionally reading a manual, working ourselves through a learning program, or being taught by another.) But, as others have stated, this solution still leaves one with fuzzy letters. Personally, despite several changes announced over the past several days, I have perceived little or no improvement in readability over a format with which I had been functionally content for a number of months.

Others have commented on liking the appearance of the new format. I, however, will vote with those who ask for functionality first. As someone said, "you want to read it, too?"

Again, these are not issues I place entirely on the developers. Those responsible for the business and market management must bear equal accountability. This format change and its handling do and will speak loudly about those aspects of B&N, albeit possibly to a small percentage of B&N customers.

Thank you for "listening".

Message Edited by Peppermill on 10-02-2007 03:53 PM


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bentley
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Re: A New Look for Book Clubs -- Eye Issues


Everyman wrote:

bentley wrote:
I am sorry to hear about your problems with your eyes, having gone through recently retinal detachments, laser surgery, vitrectomies and schleral buckles, diplopia, macular puckering, and you know.

Boy, do I know. I've had two serious retinal detachments, one corrected with laser surgery, one with cryo, but both retinas still a bit of a mess. One schleral buckle. One retinal peel. One vitrectomy done and one waiting to be done. A macular hole not corrected by follow-up surgery. Still need to do the second vitrectomy. Cataract surgery on one eye done, the other eye is overdue but want to try to deal with the macular hole as well as I can before I put my "good" eye under the knife yet again. No diplopia, though, thank goodness.





Never suspected that you were having the same problems as I have had. I have had all of the operations/surgeries/procedures that you had. No cataracts yet but with the schleral buckle they say it is a matter of time. Was near sighted but perfect vision before this mess. Oh did you have the gas bubble in your eye so you had to lay face down for a few weeks in this contraption..what a joy. I do not have the macular hole..but it is a miracle because my retinal detachments were in the macular...I was blessed with a top retinal surgeon who happened to be on call and I was lucky to get him. The diplopia drove me crazy but has just started to improve and then there is the depth perception issues but these things do improve with time. I cannot tell you how many people I run into who have had the same issues; I never realized how common this was until it affected me.

When were your last operations? It absolutely takes months but it does improve. Make sure you have the best surgeons and take care of yourself. You are doing well to be on line at all. It took me time before I could be on the computer without ocular migraines, headaches. In some light situations, I cannot even read the menu (lol) but on the whole I am happy that I have improved this much. It takes about six months to a year. So keep your chin up.

Take care of yourself..I am putting this in bold for you.
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Everyman
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Re: A New Look for Book Clubs -- Eye Issues

Thanks, Bentley. My retinal detachment surgeries and buckle were awhile back -- six and ten years ago (they went out separately). My cataracts have been developing, as have massive floaters, so I had one eye worked on, cataracts, vitrectomy, and retinal peel, in January, but that's when the macular hole showed up. Tried to get that fixed in surgery in March, but only partly successful. Yes, I had the bubble, no fun at all.

Have been putting off doing the other eye for cataract and vitro, not going to do the retinal peel on that one, but vision is getting worse, so can't wait forever. Sigh.

I do have a top retinal surgeon in Seattle, so getting the best there is. Eyes are worth it!
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Peppermill
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Re: A New Look for Book Clubs

Choisya -- when I finished the post above, I followed some of the links on this site that I had not traced previously. They seemed new to me, so I have a sense that the IT changes may be more pervasive than I initially realized. That may be one of the reasons that the Book Club problems seem to be getting short shrift -- the developers and management may be inundated with problems from other directions and in areas that may have higher marketing visibility. Now, what will be interesting to watch is when/if they get to the issues laid out here. Sooner is better to those of us who are egotistical enough to believe that the hours we have put in here may help B&N attract readers and customers, besides giving ourselves a great deal of enjoyment.

I suspect at this point one way B&N could rebound is by keeping users informed. That is sort of the standard PR recommendation for "egg on the face" situations. These book clubs are a relatively unique opportunity insofar as I am aware and B&N deserves to benefit from their availability. Even a short post every day or three days from Kevin or Jessica could be a "we do care" boost, at least if they feel the commitment exists behind them.

Choisya wrote:
Peppermill wrote:
As I posted elsewhere, the one-time product manager/ market manager/ systems analyst in me perceives an unfortunate lack of user and human interface specialist input to the techies. Although I agree with the web designers and others here that all new designs generally require a shakeout, I am indeed still surprised to see a major corporation that is an industry leader in publication roll out a major change of this nature apparently without adequate or perhaps appropriate testing. Usually if live users are to be used as a beta, they are informed of the situation prior to availability. If that did happen here, it did not reach those of us who had been interacting solely within particular boards.

Again, these are not issues I place entirely on the developers. Those responsible for the business and market management must bear equal accountability. This format change and its handling do and will speak loudly about those aspects of B&N, albeit possibly to a small percentage of B&N customers.

You hit several nails on the head here P and I hope some heads, if not rolling, are being knocked together! '...to see a major corporation that is an industry leader in publication roll out a major change of this nature apparently without adequate or perhaps appropriate testing' is a disgrace and will undoubtedly rebound on B&N's reputation. There may be a small and expendable percentage of users here but word spreads and the knock-on effect could be considerable, let alone the satisfaction their major competitor will get from observing/hearing of such a 'boo-boo'! Even if complaints die away or complainants leave in disgust/exasperation, the design problems remain obvious. And, as you say, why B&N did not (does not) revert to the old format whilst they sort them out is beyond understanding - unless someone has been stupid enough to delete it???

"Seize the moments of happiness, love and be loved! That is the only reality in the world, all else is folly. It is the one thing we are interested in here." -- Leo Tolstoy
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Choisya
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Re: A New Look for Book Clubs

I know there have been some other changes Peppermill but I have been too dazzled by the board overall to fully investigate them. The majority of the reading and posting gets done in the book clubs and that is where the new design has impacted most. Not as many complaints have been made about the other changes. Folks have said they are not posting to new book clubs until this problem is solved so what effect is this having on sales? I certainly cannot bring myself to click around the website as I formerly did, because of the 'brightness', so I guess it is affecting other folks similarly.

I agree that keeping the users informed as to what is happening would help B&N's Public Relations so let us hope that we continue to get regular updates as well as improvements.

Those of you who live in the US, especially in New York, where the B&N Head Office is, might be able to speed improvements up by making a complaint by telephone. Their Customer Service Centre is at 1-800-THE BOOK (1-800-843-2665).




Peppermill wrote:
Choisya -- when I finished the post above, I followed some of the links on this site that I had not traced previously. They seemed new to me, so I have a sense that the IT changes may be more pervasive than I initially realized. That may be one of the reasons that the Book Club problems seem to be getting short shrift -- the developers and management may be inundated with problems from other directions and in areas that may have higher marketing visibility. Now, what will be interesting to watch is when/if they get to the issues laid out here. Sooner is better to those of us who are egotistical enough to believe that the hours we have put in here may help B&N attract readers and customers, besides giving ourselves a great deal of enjoyment.

I suspect at this point one way B&N could rebound is by keeping users informed. That is sort of the standard PR recommendation for "egg on the face" situations. These book clubs are a relatively unique opportunity insofar as I am aware and B&N deserves to benefit from their availability. Even a short post every day or three days from Kevin or Jessica could be a "we do care" boost, at least if they feel the commitment exists behind them.

Choisya wrote:
Peppermill wrote:
As I posted elsewhere, the one-time product manager/ market manager/ systems analyst in me perceives an unfortunate lack of user and human interface specialist input to the techies. Although I agree with the web designers and others here that all new designs generally require a shakeout, I am indeed still surprised to see a major corporation that is an industry leader in publication roll out a major change of this nature apparently without adequate or perhaps appropriate testing. Usually if live users are to be used as a beta, they are informed of the situation prior to availability. If that did happen here, it did not reach those of us who had been interacting solely within particular boards.

Again, these are not issues I place entirely on the developers. Those responsible for the business and market management must bear equal accountability. This format change and its handling do and will speak loudly about those aspects of B&N, albeit possibly to a small percentage of B&N customers.

You hit several nails on the head here P and I hope some heads, if not rolling, are being knocked together! '...to see a major corporation that is an industry leader in publication roll out a major change of this nature apparently without adequate or perhaps appropriate testing' is a disgrace and will undoubtedly rebound on B&N's reputation. There may be a small and expendable percentage of users here but word spreads and the knock-on effect could be considerable, let alone the satisfaction their major competitor will get from observing/hearing of such a 'boo-boo'! Even if complaints die away or complainants leave in disgust/exasperation, the design problems remain obvious. And, as you say, why B&N did not (does not) revert to the old format whilst they sort them out is beyond understanding - unless someone has been stupid enough to delete it???




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Everyman
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Re: A New Look for Book Clubs

Those of you who live in the US, especially in New York, where the B&N Head Office is, might be able to speed improvements up by making a complaint by telephone. Their Customer Service Centre is at 1-800-THE BOOK (1-800-843-2665).

I can only speak for myself, but I prefer for the time being to work through Kevin, Jessica, et. al. rather than go around them or over their heads. While the incremental changes we have seen have only partially alleviated the problem, particularly the problem of excessive brightness and still an inadequate contrast between text and background in many places, still I believe that they are making improvements as then can, and I am willing to give them a bit more time.

But if no additional improvements show up in the next week or two, it may be time to ask them directly what is going on and what we can expect, and if the answers are not satisfactory (perhaps for reasons not their own fault such as their not being provided the necessary resources), then I agree it may well be time to complain more vigorously.

In the meantime, I invite Kevin, Jessica, et. al. to let us know if there are ways we can be proactive in helping move forward the necessary changes to return the Book Clubs to the much more user-friendly environment it was before the recent upheaval. Would complaints to the "powers that be" at BN actually be helpful to them rather than being seen as criticism of them to their bosses?
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Jessica
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Re: A New Look for Book Clubs -- UPDATES!

Hello again,

We just wanted to drop in to say that, yes, we are following the conversations here, and we're still working on further adjustments to the boards.

As you can see, the book clubs redesign is a part of a much larger, very complex, site-wide redesign. Any changes we make here need to be done carefully, and with consideration of certain technology issues. It just takes a little time.

Thanks for being patient. We promise -- we're hard at work behind the scenes!

Jessica
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Everyman
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Re: A New Look for Book Clubs -- UPDATES!

Thanks for that, Jessica. We do trust you, but it's nice to have confirmation from time to time!


Jessica wrote:
Hello again,

We just wanted to drop in to say that, yes, we are following the conversations here, and we're still working on further adjustments to the boards.

As you can see, the book clubs redesign is a part of a much larger, very complex, site-wide redesign. Any changes we make here need to be done carefully, and with consideration of certain technology issues. It just takes a little time.

Thanks for being patient. We promise -- we're hard at work behind the scenes!

Jessica


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Everyman
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Re: A New Look for Book Clubs

BTW, has anybody happened to click on the B&N Review link at the top of the page? I just did, just out of curiosity, and it looks like something that will be worth going to look at from time to time. I've never seen the Review before, don't know whether it was always there but not obvious, or whether it's something new.
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Jessica
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B&N Review


Everyman wrote:
BTW, has anybody happened to click on the B&N Review link at the top of the page? I just did, just out of curiosity, and it looks like something that will be worth going to look at from time to time. I've never seen the Review before, don't know whether it was always there but not obvious, or whether it's something new.




B&N Review is brand new! There's a ton of fascinating interviews, reviews, etc. in there.

Enjoy!
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IBIS
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Re: B&N Review

I love the new B&N Review. Nice innovation!

Great new way to get reviews at our fingertips. I recommend everyone to visit that area.
IBIS

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BarbaraN
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Re: B&N Review


IBIS wrote:
I love the new B&N Review. Nice innovation!

Great new way to get reviews at our fingertips. I recommend everyone to visit that area.




It is still "light" reading! I like the redesign of the whole B&N site. They have put in some very nice innovations. But they should really darken the type on everything. Reading information on the books in the "store" is awfully difficult as well, at least on my computer. I'm not a techie, but I would think it would be easier to just change the style for the whole site to a darker font then trying to change just the book club. But maybe it isn't a problem to other people. I'm not sure if it is the light type or the glare from the bright background. Light type on a color back ground comes through better. Also, since I am working on a laptop, I have found that the type looks darker and the background has less glare if I tilt my screen back about 45 degrees. I have to push it back far enough so the green side bars turn almost black. So it may be just my problem.
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Bill_T
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Re: A New Look for Book Clubs


Everyman wrote:
BTW, has anybody happened to click on the B&N Review link at the top of the page? I just did, just out of curiosity, and it looks like something that will be worth going to look at from time to time. I've never seen the Review before, don't know whether it was always there but not obvious, or whether it's something new.




It's very new -- 3 days old today! I hope you'll all spend a little time exploring the review and seeing what we have to offer...

http://www.barnesandnoble.com/bn-review/

(And if anyone is wondering, it's what I've been spending my time on these days. But as you can see, I do check back in when I can to see what you all are talking about.)
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Everyman
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Re: A New Look for Book Clubs



Bill_T wrote:
It's very new -- 3 days old today! I hope you'll all spend a little time exploring the review and seeing what we have to offer...

http://www.barnesandnoble.com/bn-review/

(And if anyone is wondering, it's what I've been spending my time on these days....)

And here you left it up to old half-eyes to bring it to the group's attention! :smileyhappy:
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Peppermill
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Re: A New Look for Book Clubs -- UPDATES!


Jessica wrote:
Hello again,

We just wanted to drop in to say that, yes, we are following the conversations here, and we're still working on further adjustments to the boards.

As you can see, the book clubs redesign is a part of a much larger, very complex, site-wide redesign. Any changes we make here need to be done carefully, and with consideration of certain technology issues. It just takes a little time.

Thanks for being patient. We promise -- we're hard at work behind the scenes!

Jessica

Jessica -- thank you much for the update! Also, Bill T!

I appreciate the comment from Barbara N about tipping the screen -- it does really help!
"Seize the moments of happiness, love and be loved! That is the only reality in the world, all else is folly. It is the one thing we are interested in here." -- Leo Tolstoy