An easy first task for you

[Mack_the_Knife]

ok, here's the only thing we need:  

1. parcel out all the "rooted nook" discussions to an entirely different forum

[Piechow]

I have thoughts about this subject also. If BN will not stop these discussions at least remove them to there own area.

[Mark_OB1 Bibliophile]

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Mack_the_Knife wrote:

ok, here's the only thing we need:  

1. parcel out all the "rooted nook" discussions to an entirely different forum

---

Well, regardless of the advisability of what you're requesting, I disagree with you completely on two counts:

1)  what you are asking for would NOT be an easy task, and

2)  this is most definitely NOT "the only thing we need"

- Mark

[SLevine]

Hi all-

As you can probably already see, we're currently roadmapping some aesthetic and organizational changes to these forums. Stay tuned for more information, and keep your eyes peeled for the changes as they continue to pop up  

[Mack_the_Knife]

mark, take your know it all attitude down a peg, huh?  for starters, a new rooted forum would be a step in the right direction.  once it's established, rooted discussions that appear in the first 4-5 pages of the general discussion forum could EASILY be culled to that forum.  

[roustabout]

I thought Mark was fairly mild.  Asking for the rooted nook threads to be moved as being the first and only order of business struck me as being fairly uwelcoming, and I'm guessing that's how Mark saw it also. 

There may be an element of 'careful what you wish for' there as well.  If the folks with rooted devices are asked to stop participating in the main forum, I think it's going to remove some of the peer support from that forum. 

Granted, the peer support is free and you get what you pay for. 

[Mack_the_Knife]

it's naive to think if a rooted forum were created that folks with those devices would feel slighted and isolate themselves.   who mentioned asking anyone to stop participating?  rather than censure me for having an idea to help organize the forums, come up with an idea yourself...  

and never mind defending mark, his arrogance is cumulative.

[UrSunshine]

Personally, I do not see any harm in having the root-related discussions in the general discussion board.

Because of such discussions popping up from time to time, I was able to learn about it "gradually".

If such an issue is completely removed or forbidden and can only be accessed through a different board, I think many people would never get an opportunity to learn about it.

They'll either feel intimidated or simply oblivious of its existence.

Also, there is a chance that a "rooting discussion board" could become too technical which, in turn, will intimidate non-techie people.

One thing that I l appreciate about root-related discussions here is how people try to explain instructions/feedbacks/solutions in layman's term.

Honestly, this is hard to find out there.

And I do not believe that the root-related posts dominate the board.

Rather, they pop up when a certain someone becomes interested in rooting, and once he or she is done with it, they disappear.

[melouria]

You know, having a seperate board for rooting was mentioned several months ago and all he11 broke loose.  No one suggested banning discussion of rooting, just seperating it from those who had a stock NC.  The questions and problems are different.  I would think that those with a rooted NC would want a seperate board instead of having to weed through all the topics on the general discussion board.  One thing that does irritate me though, are those who answer a legitimate question by someone running stock with "Just root your NC...that will fix your problems." 

[roustabout]

Mack, I actually already came up with a couple of things that I passed on.  You had a useful suggestion in the context of asking what happened during the reboot/reset in April earlier today - too late for most people to act on, but a good point all the same.

My main idea was that Samantha was willing to be a conduit for information between BN and the forum denizens and to listen to what we were saying, not that she was here primarily to do a reorg of the nook forums.

If you choose not to understand how someone saying "the first" and then "the only" thing needed is to move topic Z into its own bin might feel unwelcoming to folks whose experience of the nook and advice on it is going to be informed by topic Z, that's your choice.     

[Nallia Distinguished Bibliophile]

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melouria wrote:

You know, having a seperate board for rooting was mentioned several months ago and all he11 broke loose.  No one suggested banning discussion of rooting, just seperating it from those who had a stock NC.  The questions and problems are different.  I would think that those with a rooted NC would want a seperate board instead of having to weed through all the topics on the general discussion board.  One thing that does irritate me though, are those who answer a legitimate question by someone running stock with "Just root your NC...that will fix your problems." 

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You and me both.

[flyingtoastr Inspired Wordsmith]

Given that rooting is neither encouraged by BN nor in accordance with the TOU and EULA you agreed to by purchacing and registering a NOOKcolor, I don't see why on earth they would make a forum for rooting.

[Mack_the_Knife]

well,obviously your TOU's and EULA's haven't deterred the deed so concentrating it to its own discussion area will obviate the need for us bona fide users to wade thru topic after topic of discussion that doesn't pertain. 

[melouria]

They obviously do not care or every thread related to rooting would have been removed long ago.  And they would not allow a book, sold in their store, with instructions on how to root.  So why not go the next step and make a board just for rooting topics?  They could always post a stickie at the top of the board with a disclaimer that rooting invalidates the warranty or however it is stated in the TOU and EULA.

[roustabout]

So, rooted users are not good faith users? (the definition of bona fide - good faith.) 

The argument may hold for rooted users who want only to purchase books via Amazon on the device.  My impression of the discussions here and elsewhere is that few really want that.  We do want BN to be more careful about their agency priced books, to hold to the agency pricing and remain competitive with Amazon.  The existence of the Kindle app and the native Android Nook app, for those who have seen it, will hopefully also prod BN to fix issues in their library app - inability to use the device in landscape mode, a lack of good night mode, for insance.  Both of those two work great in the stand-alone Nook app! 

The degree of good faith in using competition for sales on BNs own device is arguable, granted. 

I don't think there's really an argument around the connectivity problem.  As of now, BN is on the record acknowledging that firmware 1.2 breaks network connectivity for users who own at least 3 wireless access points - a Westell unit, a Belkin unit, and a D-link unit.   

BN support is currently telling folks that there is no way to roll back to 1.1.  There is also no official guidance on how to prevent the update from coming in over the air. 

There is a method for rolling back, and once rolled back, the only current patch to disable OTA updates is to root.

I don't see that those of us who have helped BN identify problem APs, and are currently helping customers continue to use their devices are not good faith users of the device.

And I certainly don't see a cutomer, having received a "B/G/N compatible" Nook Color and finding that after the update it is a "B/G/N partially compatible but not with your access point" Nook Color who chooses to roll back to a working software release and keep it running as sold  via rooting is acting in bad faith. 

If rooting threads are moved to a rooted device forum, there's another barrier to those folks getting help.  

I take the point about rooted users bragging about fixes for problems in the stock device by bragging about what's available to them or telling people who are asking for apps "oh, just root it and call it a day."  

App availability in rooted devices could be used by stock users as a lobbying point with BN - please, work on getting high visiblity multimedia apps officially in the store:   Work on getting the native Facebook and Twitter apps officially in the store.  They're known to work and we'd like to more easily share what we're reading and what we're reading it on via Twitter and Facebook.  Please, let us help you crowdsource your marketing. 

[Mack_the_Knife]

good faith:

honest intent to fulfill a promise

that promise:

(d) Restrictions. Except as may be expressly permitted by this Agreement, you may not, directly or indirectly: (i) use the Software on any device other than your NOOKcolor; (ii) use, copy, modify,distribute copies of, display or transmit the Software; (iii)disassemble, reverse engineer, emulate, decompile, tamper with, create derivative works from or otherwise attempt to discover the source code of the Software or the technology used to provide the Service or attempt to reduce the Software to human-readable form;

[roustabout]

And your definition applies to a customer whose 1.2 update disabled the Nook Color from using the network how, exactly? 

http://www.barnesandnoble.com/nookcolor/legal/?cds2Pid=35607

"(d) Wireless Connection. Your NOOKcolor has built-in wireless Internet connectivity capabilities."

I'd love to see the actual url you pulled your boilerplate from.  I already know that it doesn't apply to the overclock kernel I use, because BN has zero legal authority to say how I use the kernel or what changes I make to it.  They don't own the iintellectual property around it, and in fact Google doesn't, either, since it's the linux kernel.

My memory of the clause you're citing is that it applies to proprietary BN software -the library and the other DRM modules. 

The agreement that I read was thousands of words long, as BN correctly passed along the licensing terms for the software, very little of which is BN's to restrict.

[Mack_the_Knife]

         

[Mark_OB1 Bibliophile]

Mack_the_Knife wrote:

> (d) Restrictions. Except as may be expressly permitted by this Agreement, you may not, directly or indirectly: (i) use the Software on any device other than your NOOKcolor; (ii) use, copy, modify,distribute copies of, display or transmit the Software; <

Fortunately, those who are rooting are neither using the software on any other devices, nor are they modifying it.  They are, in some cases, replacing parts of it, which is legitimate.

> (iii)disassemble, reverse engineer, emulate, decompile, tamper with, create derivative works from or otherwise attempt to discover the source code of the Software or the technology used to provide the Service or attempt to reduce the Software to human-readable form; <

I doubt anyone has any interest in discovering the source code to any B&N software components.  So that also is a non-issue.  However, even there, disassembly, reverse engineering, etc. is a legally-protected right under the DMCA, IF it is for the purposes of establishing interoperability.  So it's not as cut and dried as you've presented.

We've lost a lot of our rights as consumers in the new 'digital age', but luckily not all of them.  Yet.

- Mark

[ladytonya]

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Mack_the_Knife wrote:

good faith:

honest intent to fulfill a promise

that promise:

(d) Restrictions. Except as may be expressly permitted by this Agreement, you may not, directly or indirectly: (i) use the Software on any device other than your NOOKcolor; (ii) use, copy, modify,distribute copies of, display or transmit the Software; (iii)disassemble, reverse engineer, emulate, decompile, tamper with, create derivative works from or otherwise attempt to discover the source code of the Software or the technology used to provide the Service or attempt to reduce the Software to human-readable form;

---

It says YOU MAY NOT instead of YOU SHALL NOT.  BIG difference!  I'm a paralegal, not an attorney, and I could make the necessary legal argument to get around that sentence.

Plus, if you have a device that has been rendered useless by an update that was put out by the company that made the device, you have no other choice.  Heck, one of the Nook experts in one of our nearby B&N brick and mortar stores has his Nook rooted and shows it to customers, showing them all that it can do!  This argument is ridiculous.