Middle Chapters, 9 - 15

[Rachel-K]

Please use this thread to discuss your ideas about Belong to Me from chapter 9, (which starts with Dev knowing Lyssa's "secret," through chapter 15,  ( where Cornelia and Piper go to step class).

[vivico1]

OK, in chapter 9, when Dev tell Clare everything, he thinks about what made him do this, what about her made him able to or want to and he said being with Clare was like drinking truth serum. Then he thinks, its more than that, its like a "trust serum". I love this idea! Marisa, if you are reading this, how did you come up with this? This page is great. The idea of a "trust serum" is so very descriptive to me of whats really important and what you do feel with some people. Trust is maybe the one thing above love to me. I do so love how Dev thinks!

I have a question for everyone, if you had a choice, and such existed and you could use it, which would you want to use more with those you love, a truth serum or a trust serum? And no saying, well neither because, yada yada lol. This was just such a well written thought and idea that I am saying lets go out on the limb here and talk in hypotheticals. Which would you choose if it could only be one? And would it be different for different people in your life?

[MarisadelosSan…]

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vivico1 wrote:
OK, in chapter 9, when Dev tell Clare everything, he thinks about what made him do this, what about her made him able to or want to and he said being with Clare was like drinking truth serum. Then he thinks, its more than that, its like a "trust serum". I love this idea! Marisa, if you are reading this, how did you come up with this? This page is great. The idea of a "trust serum" is so very descriptive to me of whats really important and what you do feel with some people. Trust is maybe the one thing above love to me. I do so love how Dev thinks!

I have a question for everyone, if you had a choice, and such existed and you could use it, which would you want to use more with those you love, a truth serum or a trust serum? And no saying, well neither because, yada yada lol. This was just such a well written thought and idea that I am saying lets go out on the limb here and talk in hypotheticals. Which would you choose if it could only be one? And would it be different for different people in your life?

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Honestly, I'm not sure how I came up with that. My best answer is that DEV came up with it because when I was writing his chapters I was so deeply inside his head and his experiences that it felt like he was making the decisions. It's one of the really exciting things about writing, for me, the way characters become so whole to me and so utterly real that, in moments, it feels as though I'm just turning over the reins to them!

As for trust serum vs. truth serum, well, I guess I would say that the first cancels out the need for the second. If two people are so perfectly at home with each other that they can turn over their secrets to each other then dishonesty or withholding becomes moot, right?

Marisa

[ROSIE]

What does anyone think about the relationship of trust and truth?  Would, as Marisa said, "trust serum" cancel out the need for "truth serum?"  Is absolute truth necessary to trust?  I am not sure.

I certainly believe that we reveal more to those we trust......Lyssa trusts Dev and reveals her disabilities to him.  And in Lake trust and truth get all confused!

What do others think about this?

rosie

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MarisadelosSantos wrote:

Honestly, I'm not sure how I came up with that. My best answer is that DEV came up with it because when I was writing his chapters I was so deeply inside his head and his experiences that it felt like he was making the decisions. It's one of the really exciting things about writing, for me, the way characters become so whole to me and so utterly real that, in moments, it feels as though I'm just turning over the reins to them!

As for trust serum vs. truth serum, well, I guess I would say that the first cancels out the need for the second. If two people are so perfectly at home with each other that they can turn over their secrets to each other then dishonesty or withholding becomes moot, right?

Marisa

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[SandyS]

I find this an interesting question.  I do believe it depends on who you are talking about and at what stage of their relationship.  With our children we often ask them to trust us without telling them the "truth", or rather the entire story (or any of the story).  This is what Lake asks of Dev regarding his father.

Most often in a good marriage truth goes hand in hand with trust.   This seems to be the type of relationship Teo and Cornelia have.  Yet, Piper also trusts Kyle to be married to her without knowing the truth of what he is thinking.   

Friendships sometimes have either trust or truth.  I think Elizabeth and Piper believed they had both.  I think Cornelia and Piper believed they had neither in the beginning of their friendship. By the end they had trust but maybe not truth.  Lake and Cornelia had more truth than trust (until the end). 

And more often than not one party will see the relationship differently than the other party sees it. 

SandyS

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ROSIE wrote:

What does anyone think about the relationship of trust and truth?  Would, as Marisa said, "trust serum" cancel out the need for "truth serum?"  Is absolute truth necessary to trust?  I am not sure.

I certainly believe that we reveal more to those we trust......Lyssa trusts Dev and reveals her disabilities to him.  And in Lake trust and truth get all confused!

What do others think about this?

rosie

 

[Fozzie]

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vivico1 wrote:
I have a question for everyone, if you had a choice, and such existed and you could use it, which would you want to use more with those you love, a truth serum or a trust serum? And no saying, well neither because, yada yada lol. This was just such a well written thought and idea that I am saying lets go out on the limb here and talk in hypotheticals. Which would you choose if it could only be one? And would it be different for different people in your life?

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I would pick trust serum.  I think a truth serum would have negative consequences, but a trust serum would not. 

Would I really want to know that my husband doesn't find me attractive (and I don't necessarily mean physically) on a particular day or would I want my husband to know that I think the same about him on certain days?  NO!  I would not want my kids to know what I am thinking sometimes.  Or me knowing what they think.  Many times, my opinions are best kept to myself, as are theirs, for the good of others.  Imagine if everyone had to tell the truth all the time.  People would be hurt left and right.  The truth has the ability to hurt people, but trusting people won't hurt.  Trust is outward looking and assumes people have your best interests are heart.  That would be wonderful.

[vivico1]

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Fozzie wrote:

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vivico1 wrote:
I have a question for everyone, if you had a choice, and such existed and you could use it, which would you want to use more with those you love, a truth serum or a trust serum? And no saying, well neither because, yada yada lol. This was just such a well written thought and idea that I am saying lets go out on the limb here and talk in hypotheticals. Which would you choose if it could only be one? And would it be different for different people in your life?

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I would pick trust serum. I think a truth serum would have negative consequences, but a trust serum would not.

Would I really want to know that my husband doesn't find me attractive (and I don't necessarily mean physically) on a particular day or would I want my husband to know that I think the same about him on certain days? NO! I would not want my kids to know what I am thinking sometimes. Or me knowing what they think. Many times, my opinions are best kept to myself, as are theirs, for the good of others. Imagine if everyone had to tell the truth all the time. People would be hurt left and right. The truth has the ability to hurt people, but trusting people won't hurt. Trust is outward looking and assumes people have your best interests are heart. That would be wonderful.

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very good points Fozzie. I have to agree with you guys, trust serum over truth serum. Trust means a WHOLE lot to me, a WHOLE lot. Now, there are a few people, that are maybe not as close as some friends, or family members, but are around my circle that quite frankly, right now all I would want from them is the truth, about everything important to me with them and really thats all I want from them. But people I love, I don't need to know everything or each thought, nor will I hang on to every little untruth as future battle armament. I just want there to be trust between us, that no matter what goes on that we may not know or see, we have trust between us, that what we do for and with each other is out of caring, love and real friendship.

[Fozzie]

I think Chapter Thirteen illustrates so well what I love about Marisa's writing style.  I only hope I can convey to you all what I mean.

I noticed that often a "topic" is introduced, then an anecdote related to the topic is told, coming full circle back to the "topic."  Let's see if I can't give a example through excerpts from Chapter Thirteen.

Cornelia begins the chapter by talking about being a member of a group, in this case pregnant women. 

An anecdote about how she and Teo told everyone the news of their pregnancy follows.

Cornelia compares buying a new car with being pregnant.  "In all ways but one, being pregnant is nothing like contemplating the purchase of a new car." ... "When you are pregnant, pregnant women are ubiquitous."

Then Miranda enters, pregnant.

She and Cornelia are "simply two pregnant women, smiling the same wry smile."

Then they ride in a car to the grocery store.

Miranda shouts in the grocery store, "I am not you, Cornelia!  Not every pregnant woman in the world is you!"  Pregnant women are not ubiquitous.

Then there is an anecdote about Toby taking a version of a leap of faith, cliff diving.

Pregnant Cornelia discovers she has on unusual condition for pregnant women, making her pregnancy different from many others.

Then the chapter is wrapped up, tying together the big ideas.

"I knew what I'd do when [Teo] got here.  I would leap.  I would stare down doubt and fear and choose joy.  I'd point to the stalwart creature on the screen, the one with hands and feet and a face, our brave, thumb-sucking kicker, and I'd tell Teo, 'Put you faith in the Penny.'"

So, in this chapter, two of the topics are pregnant women being ubiquitous and taking a leap of faith.  The anecdotes are about Miranda being pregnant but not like Cornelia, and Cornelia remembering Toby taking a leap of faith, inspiring herself to do so with her pregnancy.  See how everything ties together and comes full circle?

Marisa, do you do this consciously, or is that just the way your thoughts and writing flow?  I noticed similar examples in other parts of the book.

[IBIS]

Fozzie, what an insightful analysis... I went back to Chapter 13 to understand your point more clearly... and I think you've hit on something.  I'm looking forward to the author's response.

IBIS