Later Chapters Discussion: Then and Now

[Stephanie]

A through-line in this series is the ongoing battle for supremacy between the Saxons and the Danes, a conflict that is fueled appreciably by religious differences and intolerance. Does this theme have any contemporary resonance?

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Note: This discussion topic is particulary suitable for readers who have finished, or nearly finished, Lords of the North.

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[Aristodemus]

Interestingly, Mr. Cornwell's religious characters tend to be fanatics. They are blinded by their faith... tend to be greedy at heart... and use religion to further their own political ends.

Seems to be a great statement on the fundamentalist Christians and funadmentalist Muslims of our era.

Am only surprised that Mr. Cornwell has not yet been excommunicated by the Catholic Church. Ah well, maybe after the next book. lol

That said, i do see a nice balance among the clergy characters. For every fanatical Hoeathward (spelling?) there is an aesthetic like Father Boecca. So one does not get the feeling that the author, or his world, is entirely skewed against religion - only against those who would use it to further their own position.

[Pongo]

I dont see that the conflict is at all fueled by religion on either side. The Danes have invaded, just as they might invade a country that shared their relgion, they dont seem to treat the christians any worse then they treat fellow Norse worshipers. They attack because they percieve weakness and wealth.
They target the churches because the church has wealth. Something that saxons did as well although not in the books.
The main character starts out a closet odin worshiper and just makes it more obvios as he developes.

[Trillian]

It seems like Uhtred is sort of a "realist"...he worships his gods but doesn't count on them to save him. Part of me thinks this is what Bernard wants to represent as the best way to be, but then, as you say Aristodemus, there is Father Boecca, who shows a lot of courage that seems to come from his faith.

One thing that's important to remember is that people of these times didn't feel that religion was as separate from the rest of life as we tend to do. Christian or pagan, everybody seemed to see God (or gods) all around them, even people who didn't go to church much or act devout.

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Aristodemus wrote:
Interestingly, Mr. Cornwell's religious characters tend to be fanatics. They are blinded by their faith... tend to be greedy at heart... and use religion to further their own political ends.

Seems to be a great statement on the fundamentalist Christians and funadmentalist Muslims of our era.

Am only surprised that Mr. Cornwell has not yet been excommunicated by the Catholic Church. Ah well, maybe after the next book. lol

That said, i do see a nice balance among the clergy characters. For every fanatical Hoeathward (spelling?) there is an aesthetic like Father Boecca. So one does not get the feeling that the author, or his world, is entirely skewed against religion - only against those who would use it to further their own position.

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[PamMazz3]

The religious part of the series, especially the latest book, is exremely interesting. You might say that circumstances change, but hisotry doesn't, but I think that the people in the era of the book were less tolerable than you see today, at least from my point of view. Then you had a brand new religion coming in and it is interesting to note the very unchristian like behavior of these so called men of God. Today, the religions are already established and the lines are already drawn. Then you had many people converting to the new religion and it makes you wonder if the end justfied the means. I have assumed from the series that the priests were actually very evil people. I guess you could say that about alot of the priests today, but not all of them.

[Stephanie]

As with any history, looking back using today's standards presents problems -- I don't believe those priests were deliberately evil, but they surely had some strange ideas - carrying around a corpse? Kissing it? Well. Certainly there are laws against that today!

[jbyrom]

There are too many people who see religion as a prime motivator. I think that in his books, Bernard Cornwell reduces religion to a secondary motivator for all characters except those who espouse to be priests (of any represented faith).

The religious characters do seem to be overly zealous ... but then again, the historical period supports this sort of character.

The non-religious characters (other than Alfred) tend to go about life doing what they should/must/like to do ... paying no more significance to religion than we pay to which sports team we support (sports fanatics excepted). A religious version of, "So, who are you cheering for in the game?" This allows Bernard to concentrate on the development of the storyline and its many intertwined parts, without having to devolve into a paroxysm of religious kneejerks.

Personally, I am particularly fond of Uhtred's view of the gods. I find the view of stand-offish Gods to be very appealing, and more realistic than one of a God who is interested in the mundane issues of my everyday life. I once heard a quote that went something like, "A God who is small enough for the human mind to conceive, is far to small to be worshipped." In turn, a God who is interested in the daily issues of its devotees ... likewise. Mr. Cornwell's treatment of religion is a breath of fresh air.