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Inspired Wordsmith
Stephanie
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Julie

[ Edited ]
Is Julie really as "slow" as Sydney seems to think? Her parents are older, her mother would have been protective, her father sheltering- obviously Julie is no academic, but how have her other talents gone completely unnoticed? Her brothers certainly would not have paid attention, nor her mother, perhaps, but her father? A man with artistic talent of his own?

As a secondary character with much story, I think I expected more explanation of Julie's childhood. If you had to build a back-story for her, what would it entail?

Message Edited by Stephanie on 02-08-2008 06:50 PM
Stephanie
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Re: Julie



Stephanie wrote:
Is Julie really as "slow" as Sydney seems to think? Her parents are older, her mother would have been protective, her father sheltering- obviously Julie is no academic, but how have her other talents gone completely unnoticed? Her brothers certainly would not have paid attention, nor her mother, perhaps, but her father? A man with artistic talent of his own?

As a secondary character with much story, I think I expected more explanation of Julie's childhood. If you had to build a back-story for her, what would it entail?

Message Edited by Stephanie on 02-08-2008 06:50 PM




Hi----I don't know if I'm far enough along in the book to figure Julie out. For example, what is meant by "slow"? Is it low IQ, borderline IQ, Down Syndrome??? I don't think it's Down Syndrome. Her visual talents are outstanding in the puzzle and photo organization tasks. "Idiot savante syndrome" like Rainman? I just don't know. I think a back-story on Julie would entail some of her childhood years, ages 4-11, interaction with her father, mother, brothers and at school and with friends----maybe done as flashbacks.
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kiakar
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Re: Julie



Stephanie wrote:
Is Julie really as "slow" as Sydney seems to think? Her parents are older, her mother would have been protective, her father sheltering- obviously Julie is no academic, but how have her other talents gone completely unnoticed? Her brothers certainly would not have paid attention, nor her mother, perhaps, but her father? A man with artistic talent of his own?

As a secondary character with much story, I think I expected more explanation of Julie's childhood. If you had to build a back-story for her, what would it entail?

Message Edited by Stephanie on 02-08-2008 06:50 PM




It does seem that no one ever tried anything with Julie. I guess in school she was put through tests and such. If her mother has an inkling that she could pass that test into college, Julie couldn't be that dumb, anyway. But then again, Syndney did say that her mother was very naive to Julie's ability. I was thinking, maybe the almost drowning affected her learning. She seems to talk fine and communicates good, just sometimes slow.
So she wouldn't be considered mentally challenged I do not think. She is a puzzle to me also.
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Stephanie
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Re: Julie

I would guess Julie's IQ would probably fall somewhere between 90 and 100 the way she is written. Not Down's Syndrome by any stretch, but certainly not Harvard Material either.

Linda- you're idea about the near-drowning causing learning difficulties is very astute! I hadn't thought about that at all. It's very plausible though.

Back-story for Julie... she was probably propped up like a doll at family functions, her brothers always talked to her like one would to a baby, she was too shy to make friends, possibly knew her intellectual limitations so kept quiet so as not to look foolish. Her teachers would know that she struggled in school though, and they would have alerted her parents.
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Re: Julie SPOILER IF YOU HAVEN'T REACHED PAGE 147

SPOILER ALERT UNLESS YOU HAVE REACHED PAGE 147
 
What is your take on finding out that Julie has a Lesbian relationship with Helene? Is it real or hero worship fueled by admiring Helene's surfing skill so soon after conquering an 11 year avoidance of the water? Add on top of that a probably more assertive personality on Helene's part. What are your thoughts on this?
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Stephanie
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Re: Julie SPOILER IF YOU HAVEN'T REACHED PAGE 147

I truly liked Helene, and I thought she was good for Julie.  It seemed apparent that Julie sought her out, and I never got the feeling that Julie was being taken advantage of in any way.  I think as far as relationships go, Julie was the lucky one.  Of course, I never felt that Julie was "dumb" either- just not academically talented. 
 
As to the idea of hero worship- I can see where Helene's prowess in the water might have caused the initial interest, but an entire relationship, and a lesbian one at that?  If Julie weren't really a lesbian, I doubt the initial crush would have lasted. 
Stephanie
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kiakar
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Re: Julie SPOILER IF YOU HAVEN'T REACHED PAGE 147



Stephanie wrote:
I truly liked Helene, and I thought she was good for Julie.  It seemed apparent that Julie sought her out, and I never got the feeling that Julie was being taken advantage of in any way.  I think as far as relationships go, Julie was the lucky one.  Of course, I never felt that Julie was "dumb" either- just not academically talented. 
 
As to the idea of hero worship- I can see where Helene's prowess in the water might have caused the initial interest, but an entire relationship, and a lesbian one at that?  If Julie weren't really a lesbian, I doubt the initial crush would have lasted. 


Yes you are so right, Stephanie. Before Sydney, Julie had to be quite the lonely one.  But of course, Sydney was probably cautious not to get too close because of Anna's dislike of her. So when Helene came along and shown her a warmness she had never been around before, she wanted this so much in her life and she took this happiness despite all the opposition. Which I am glad she did.
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IBIS
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Re: Julie

Julie is the catalyst in the story who, by her presence, speeds up the development of various storylines.
 
She is the reason for Sydney's presence as tutor in the family dynamic; although everyone, except her mother, know the lie that Julie is college material. Sydney has the time and interest to spend with Julie.  Sydney discovers Julie's artistic talent, and with her encouragement, Julie flourishes in both creative and emotional ways.
 
Combined with her newfound confidence in the water, and her artistic skills, Julie finds love with Helene. It's the common concern for Julie's welfare---Julie going out without telling anyone, coming back intoxicated, which pulls Jeff and Sydney together to find her.
 
Visiting Julie and Helene in Montreal gives them the opportunities to travel together and deepens Sydney's feelings for Jeff.
 
Later, at the end of the book,  Ben and Sydney  plan to attend Julie's "group show" in Montreal... opening up  future possibilities for their own storyline.
 
It's interesting that of all the plot threads in the story, it's Helene and Julie's love that seems the strongest. And that romance needed no assist of any kind from anyone else.
 
IBIS
 
 
 
IBIS

"I am a part of everything that I have read."
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kiakar
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Re: Julie



IBIS wrote:
Julie is the catalyst in the story who, by her presence, speeds up the development of various storylines.
 
She is the reason for Sydney's presence as tutor in the family dynamic; although everyone, except her mother, know the lie that Julie is college material. Sydney has the time and interest to spend with Julie.  Sydney discovers Julie's artistic talent, and with her encouragement, Julie flourishes in both creative and emotional ways.
 
Combined with her newfound confidence in the water, and her artistic skills, Julie finds love with Helene. It's the common concern for Julie's welfare---Julie going out without telling anyone, coming back intoxicated, which pulls Jeff and Sydney together to find her.
 
Visiting Julie and Helene in Montreal gives them the opportunities to travel together and deepens Sydney's feelings for Jeff.
 
Later, at the end of the book,  Ben and Sydney  plan to attend Julie's "group show" in Montreal... opening up  future possibilities for their own storyline.
 
It's interesting that of all the plot threads in the story, it's Helene and Julie's love that seems the strongest. And that romance needed no assist of any kind from anyone else.
 
IBIS
 
 
 


But you know, IBIS, they were rebuffed by Julie's family for it.  Maybe that just made them work harder at their relationship. It does take alot of effort.
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IBIS
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Re: Julie

[ Edited ]


kiakar wrote: But you know, IBIS, they were rebuffed by Julie's family for it.  Maybe that just made them work harder at their relationship. It does take alot of effort.

The love affair of Julie and Helene is not a balanced relationship...its' not a match of equals. It's obvious who the senior partner is... Helene provides the financial support, the residence, the lifestyle....Julie is the less mature of the two... she needs artistic, emotional and intellectual support.  She is a bit more of a dependent than an equal partner.
 
I see that the major contribution for material support is Helene's. Julie doesn't seem to have any means of working; she paints most of the time, and even if she is going to be in a show, its a group show, and how much financial rewards will come of this? Most, if not all, the risks---emotional, financial, residential---are all on Helene's shoulders.
 
Is this a long-term romance? Will Helene be satisfied being the lover-guardian of this artistic, but admittedly very young and inexperienced Julie? I'm not sure of the future of this relationship.
 
IBIS
 

 


Message Edited by IBIS on 02-20-2008 12:31 PM
IBIS

"I am a part of everything that I have read."
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Stephanie
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Re: Julie

I think, in order for any relationship to continue, both members need to grow and change.  I think Helene will help Julie grow, rather than the way her family stilted her growth.  We really don't know too much about Helene- she may be an astute businesswoman who will help Julie sell her artwork, and then Julie will end up being the breadwinner!
Stephanie
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kiakar
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Registered: ‎10-19-2006
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Re: Julie



IBIS wrote:


kiakar wrote: But you know, IBIS, they were rebuffed by Julie's family for it.  Maybe that just made them work harder at their relationship. It does take alot of effort.

The love affair of Julie and Helene is not a balanced relationship...its' not a match of equals. It's obvious who the senior partner is... Helene provides the financial support, the residence, the lifestyle....Julie is the less mature of the two... she needs artistic, emotional and intellectual support.  She is a bit more of a dependent than an equal partner.
 
I see that the major contribution for material support is Helene's. Julie doesn't seem to have any means of working; she paints most of the time, and even if she is going to be in a show, its a group show, and how much financial rewards will come of this? Most, if not all, the risks---emotional, financial, residential---are all on Helene's shoulders.
 
Is this a long-term romance? Will Helene be satisfied being the lover-guardian of this artistic, but admittedly very young and inexperienced Julie? I'm not sure of the future of this relationship.
 
IBIS
 

 You are so right! It would be nice if all situations worked out like Cinderella or SnowWhite.
But they don't, but I guess its something that is not an impossibility that this could work. Even though it looks dismal this far.


Message Edited by IBIS on 02-20-2008 12:31 PM


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