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mwinasu
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Re: Quality of American Literature: A salute to international books

Everyman, I certainly have to trust translators.  Sometimes it bugs me that a lot of  translations seem flat.  But the ideas are more important than the language for me.

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mwinasu
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Re: Quality of American Literature: A salute to international books

My favorite writers?  OH BOY.

Japan

 A Personal Matter- Oe Kenzaburo

House of the Sleeping Beauties- Kawabata Yasunari

Anything written by Tanazaki

 

China

Anything by Ha Jin

Anything by Yu Hua

 

Czech

Anything by Karel Capek

 

Bosnia--- The Bosnian Chronicles----Ivo Andric

 

I am going to let the nationality go ,it is too much work .

The Lowenskold Ring--Selma Lagerlof

The Bridal Wreath-- Sigrid Unsdt

The Club Dumas- Reverte

The Gospel according To Jesus Christ--Saramago

The Life of Courage--Grimmelhausen

There are many more. Some of the above are Nobel winners, some are not.

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mwinasu
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Re: Quality of American Literature

Well Debbook,  the author has to be alive to qualify.  I think Joyce Carol Oates is a good choice.
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thewanderingjew
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Re: Quality of American Literature

[ Edited ]
i absolutely forgive you. i have a couple of "evil qualities". one is that i am super sensitive and the other is that sometimes i get too passionate and send out the wrong signals, i guess.
well, then, how about joyce carol oates or philip roth for the prize?
also, what do you think of palin as a governor? 
 
mwinasu wrote:

TWJ

  Your earlier posts sounded like you were stuck in a mental loop and I was trying to get your attention.  I was not trying to hurt you , please forgive me if I did.  I was not asking who you voted for I was asking who you would nominate for the Nobels.


 

Message Edited by thewanderingjew on 10-16-2008 02:19 PM
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Re: Quality of American Literature

  I live about five miles from Sarah's house.  I knew her before she was mayor.  Back then this was a really small town, I think we had about 5000 people.  We had one stoplight and two grocery stores. If you wanted to buy underwear you had to go to Anchorage. I live outside the city limits so I did not have the chance to vote for mayor.  But I have to say that I was absolutely astounded when she beat Mayor Stein.  She made some big mistakes as Mayor that the city is still trying to clear up.  People voted for her because she is a babe and everyone figured that she really couldn't do much harm.  So they hired an administrator to handle city business and off we went.  Most of the mistakes she made did not come out until she left office because she implemented a gag order on city employees.

Alaska  has a very small population.  There are many cities in the lower 48 ( that's where you are) that have more people than we do as a state.  But I have to say I almost swallowed my false teeth when I heard that she was going to be the next governor.  People voted for her because she is a babe and they figured she couldn't do much harm.  At the moment she is in a lot of trouble up here.  Some people feel that the campaign is trying to run the state and Sarah has done a lot of things she should not have done.  The thing is they are exactly the same things that she did as mayor.  I expect that she will be the same kind of vice president  as she was governor and mayor.  I think people will vote for her not  Mc Cain  because she is a babe and they figure that she really can't do much harm. If they win please check on me to see if I survived the stroke.

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Re: Quality of American Literature

I guess I have mor respect for the voting public than you do.  I don't think people vote for candidates because they are "babes." 

 


mwinasu wrote:

  I live about five miles from Sarah's house.  I knew her before she was mayor.  Back then this was a really small town, I think we had about 5000 people.  We had one stoplight and two grocery stores. If you wanted to buy underwear you had to go to Anchorage. I live outside the city limits so I did not have the chance to vote for mayor.  But I have to say that I was absolutely astounded when she beat Mayor Stein.  She made some big mistakes as Mayor that the city is still trying to clear up.  People voted for her because she is a babe and everyone figured that she really couldn't do much harm.  So they hired an administrator to handle city business and off we went.  Most of the mistakes she made did not come out until she left office because she implemented a gag order on city employees.

Alaska  has a very small population.  There are many cities in the lower 48 ( that's where you are) that have more people than we do as a state.  But I have to say I almost swallowed my false teeth when I heard that she was going to be the next governor.  People voted for her because she is a babe and they figured she couldn't do much harm.  At the moment she is in a lot of trouble up here.  Some people feel that the campaign is trying to run the state and Sarah has done a lot of things she should not have done.  The thing is they are exactly the same things that she did as mayor.  I expect that she will be the same kind of vice president  as she was governor and mayor.  I think people will vote for her not  Mc Cain  because she is a babe and they figure that she really can't do much harm. If they win please check on me to see if I survived the stroke.


 

 

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ande
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Re: Quality of American Literature

EM: One would hope. But nothing shocks me anymore.
 
By the way, Book Explorers. There was a timely and illuminating article about foreign literature and the difficulties translated works have in the US. I've pasted it here, below:
 
 

Everyman wrote:

I guess I have mor respect for the voting public than you do.  I don't think people vote for candidates because they are "babes." 

 


mwinasu wrote:

  I live about five miles from Sarah's house.  I knew her before she was mayor.  Back then this was a really small town, I think we had about 5000 people.  We had one stoplight and two grocery stores. If you wanted to buy underwear you had to go to Anchorage. I live outside the city limits so I did not have the chance to vote for mayor.  But I have to say that I was absolutely astounded when she beat Mayor Stein.  She made some big mistakes as Mayor that the city is still trying to clear up.  People voted for her because she is a babe and everyone figured that she really couldn't do much harm.  So they hired an administrator to handle city business and off we went.  Most of the mistakes she made did not come out until she left office because she implemented a gag order on city employees.

Alaska  has a very small population.  There are many cities in the lower 48 ( that's where you are) that have more people than we do as a state.  But I have to say I almost swallowed my false teeth when I heard that she was going to be the next governor.  People voted for her because she is a babe and they figured she couldn't do much harm.  At the moment she is in a lot of trouble up here.  Some people feel that the campaign is trying to run the state and Sarah has done a lot of things she should not have done.  The thing is they are exactly the same things that she did as mayor.  I expect that she will be the same kind of vice president  as she was governor and mayor.  I think people will vote for her not  Mc Cain  because she is a babe and they figure that she really can't do much harm. If they win please check on me to see if I survived the stroke.


 

 


 




October 18, 2008

Translation Is Foreign to U.S. Publishers

FRANKFURT — David R. Godine, a small independent publisher from Boston, sat down at a French publisher’s booth here at the Frankfurt Book Fair, the annual gathering of the international literary world. “O.K., what’s great?” he asked.

Mr. Godine — who emerged prescient and lucky this month when one of the authors he publishes in translation, the French novelist Jean-Marie Gustave Le Clézio, won the Nobel Prize in Literature — is one of a handful of American publishers who regularly seek out books to translate during the fair every year.

It is a commonly held assumption that Americans don’t like to read authors who write in languages they don’t understand. That belief persists here in Frankfurt, where publishers from 100 countries show off a smorgasbord of their best — or at least best-selling — books.

By and large, the American publishers spend most of the week in Hall 8, the enormous exhibit space where English-language publishers hold court.

Although there are exceptions among the big publishing houses, the editors from the United States are generally more likely to bid on other hyped American or British titles than to look for new literature in the international halls.

According to Chad W. Post, the director of Open Letter, a new press based at the University of Rochester that focuses exclusively on books in translation, 330 works of foreign literature — or a little more than 2 percent of the estimated total of 15,000 titles released — have been published in the United States so far this year.

That apparent dearth of literature in translation in the United States was the subject of controversial remarks by Horace Engdahl, the permanent secretary of the Swedish Academy, the organization that awards the Nobel Prize, a week before the prize did not go to an American.

“The U.S. is too isolated, too insular,” Mr. Engdahl said in an interview with The Associated Press. “They don’t translate enough and don’t really participate in the big dialogue of literature.”

It is left mostly to small publishers like Mr. Godine, who hustled through the vast halls, getting lost among the Eastern European booths on his way to an Italian publisher, to scavenge for hidden treasures outside the United States.

On Wednesday, when Mr. Godine met with Anne Bouteloup, the director of foreign rights at the children’s imprint of Gallimard, Mr. Le Clézio’s French publisher, Ms. Bouteloup showed him “Voyage au Pays des Arbres” (“Journey to the Country of Trees”) a children’s book by the newest Nobel laureate.

Mr. Godine flipped through the small book. “We probably should do it,” he murmured. He slipped his business card behind the front cover to remind Ms. Bouteloup that he was interested.

About 10 to 15 percent of Mr. Godine’s list is composed of books in translation, many of which he hears about at the fair each year.

Mr. Godine, who has been running his publishing house for 38 years, said he published foreign authors because it gave his tiny press literary credibility. But he said there was also a basic economic reason.

“When you look at how much is paid for a mediocre midlist author” in the United States, he said, “and how much you have to pay to get a world-class author who has been translated into 18 languages, it is ridiculous that more people don’t invest in buying great literature.” Mr. Godine said he had purchased the rights to a foreign book for as little as $2,000.

Fiona McCrae, director and publisher of Graywolf Press, a nonprofit publisher based in St. Paul that has had a breakout best seller with “Out Stealing Horses,” a novel by Per Petterson of Norway, said that small publishers could not afford to buy books by the best authors in the United States but that they often could acquire works from top authors if they looked abroad.

Philip Roth is not going to suddenly be published by Graywolf,” Ms. McCrae said after meeting with an agent from Barcelona who pitched several Spanish titles to her. “So you see who is the Philip Roth of Italy or who is an interesting writer out of Sweden.” Ms. McCrae also noted that Graywolf is supported by foundation grants specifically aimed at publishing foreign titles.

To help spur more translations, government-sponsored cultural agencies in Europe and elsewhere subsidize — or fully cover — the cost of translating books into English.

At a meeting on Wednesday morning with the Flemish Literary Fund, Jill Schoolman, the publisher and editor in chief of Archipelago Books, a nonprofit Brooklyn publisher of works in translation, discussed her plans to bring out “Wonder,” a novel by Hugo Claus, a Belgian writer who was frequently discussed as a Nobel contender before he died by euthanasia earlier this year.

Greet Ramael, the prose grants manager at the Flemish fund, handed her an application for translation reimbursement for Mr. Claus’s novel.

“The translation costs are often a deterrent or a reason not to translate a book,” Ms. Ramael said.

Some of the larger American publishers said monolingual editors fear making risky buying decisions based on short translated excerpts.

“It is hard enough to publish a book when you have read the whole thing and know you love it,” said Michael Pietsch, publisher of Little, Brown, as he sat in his company’s booth waiting for his next appointment.

There is also the oft-repeated American maxim that books in translation don’t sell.

Anne-Solange Noble, the foreign-rights director at Gallimard in France, said American publishers did not support translated books with marketing budgets and then complained when sales failed to dazzle.

Ms. Noble said she was amused — but also appeared irritated — when she recounted running into an American publisher who, on the first night of the fair, described Mr. Le Clézio as “an unknown writer.”

“American publishers are depriving the American readership of the cultural diversity through translation to which they are entitled,” Ms. Noble said. “It is what I call the poverty of the rich.”

Ms. Noble said she was not commenting on the quality of American writers, many of whom — Philip Roth and Claire Messud among them — are published by Gallimard in French and whose photos were prominently displayed in the booth.

American publishers devoted to translating say there is no shortage of gems. On Thursday Mr. Post of Open Letter eagerly plunged into one of the international halls, plucking brochures of translated English excerpts from stands hosted by cultural agencies from Croatia, Latvia, Poland, China and Korea.

Frankfurt, he said, is about renewing contacts with people whose judgment he trusts and who can help him winnow the hundreds of titles he hears about here and elsewhere.

For his part, Mr. Godine said Frankfurt helped him discover, among many others, the Nobel-winning Mr. Le Clézio. “Even a blind squirrel eventually finds a nut,” he said.


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mwinasu
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Re: Quality of American Literature

Thanks Ande for the post, it was very enlightening.   And Eman, I hope that you are right.   But it saddens me that the first woman Republican vice presidential candidate is not even  the most qualified Alaskan woman for the job.  When I think about how many really sharp women deserved a shot at that job I wonder at Mc Cains motives for choosing her.  And she did win up here because she was a babe.  Can we please talk about literature now?  Politics bore me.
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Re: Quality of American Literature

By the way, Book Explorers. There was a timely and illuminating article about foreign literature and the difficulties translated works have in the US. I've pasted it here, below:

 

The article may be true about contemporary writing.  I don't know -- I don't read that much contemporary writing.

 

But English readers have been rewarded with a vast array of wonderful new translations of classical literature in the past few decades.  Just a ver few that are on my slelves:

 

Beowulf, Seamus Heaney (2000)

Plato's Republic by Alan Bloom (1968, 2nd ed 1991) and Joe Sacha (2007)

Homer's Iliad by Robert Fitzgerald (1974), Robert Fagles (1990), Stanley Lombardo (1997)

Homer's Odyssey by Robert Fitzgerald (1963), Allen Mandelbaum (1991), Robert Fagels (1999), Stanley Lombardo (2000)

Greek Lyric Poetry, Sherod Santos (2005)

Sophocles Theban Plays, Robedrt Fagles (1982)

Ovid's Metamorphoses by Allen Mandelbaum (1993) and Charles Martin (2004) 

Virgil's Aeneid, Robert Fitzgerald (1981), Robert Fagles (2006)

Dante's Divine Comedy by Robert and Jean Hollander  (Inferno 2000, Purgagorio 2003, Paradiso 2007)

Dante's Vita Nuova, Mark Musa (1992)

Thomas Mann, Death in Venice, Michael Heim  (2004)

Thomas Mann, The Magic Mountain, John Woods (1996)

Tolstoy, War and Peace,  Pevear and Volokhonsky (2007)

 

These are just a few pulled randomly off my shelves.  There are many, many more I haven't gotten around to buying yet.  We are seeing a burgenoing interest in classical translations which are bringing welcome interest in these great books.

 

So while the article may be accurate about modern literature, it is totally wrong about the classics.

 

 

 

 

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Re: Quality of American Literature

I certainly should have included in my list the Andrea Purvis translation of Herodotus's Histories in the Landmark editioin of theH Histories, published in 2007.  I overlooked it because it was on my reading table, not on the shelves I quickly perused for representative examples of recent translations.

 

There is also the Landmark Thucydides, published in 1998, but I don't have that edition yet. 

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thewanderingjew
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Re: Quality of American Literature

Now that is a sad commentary on our elections because it makes them beauty contests, doesn't it, and in that regard, are there not similarities in this current election? Let's not speak about it in political terms worrying the point of who is best or who should win, (i have had enough as well) but just in terms of who looks better?

twj


mwinasu wrote:
Thanks Ande for the post, it was very enlightening.   And Eman, I hope that you are right.   But it saddens me that the first woman Republican vice presidential candidate is not even  the most qualified Alaskan woman for the job.  When I think about how many really sharp women deserved a shot at that job I wonder at Mc Cains motives for choosing her.  And she did win up here because she was a babe.  Can we please talk about literature now?  Politics bore me.

 

 

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mwinasu
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Re: Quality of American Literature

 TWJ,  if I were to pick a candidate solely on looks, it would be Johnny Depp, but only if he promises to wear his pirate costume all the time.
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Re: #30 The Nobel Prize dust up

[ Edited ]

Mr. Engdahl's comments aroused conflicting feelings in me.

 

I agree that American publishing houses (both large and small who can afford the translations) should publish more of the world's contemporary writers. We can't buy what hasn't been translated and published. And as the saying goes (paraphrased), you publish them, we'll buy them.-

 

I agree that American readers as a whole could expend more effort to read translations... translations do require more concentrated, intense participation on our part. And sometimes, this level of participation and hard work is not always what we prefer.

 

I'm currently reading Steig Larsson "The Girl with the Dragon Tattoo". For example, the names of Swedish politicians, or local Swedish towns... simple references that would offer immediate cultural resonance to a native reader, but whose relevance go straight over my head.

 

As for Mr. Engdahl, his comments that the US is too isolated, too insular... that Americans don't participate in the big dialogue of literature... reveal his prejudice that America is Europe's backwater. We need only to point to Philip Roth... an American writer who is very cosmopolitan... Roth introduced Eastern Europe's great writers like Danilo Kis and Witold Gombrowics to American readers...

 

Any committee that historically overlooks writers like Nabokov is guilty of ignorance. Any committee that endorses the anti-American views of Harold Pinter or Gunter Grass doesn't deserve our respect.

 

I would say to Mr. Engdahl that until his Nobel Committee gives the Nobel prize to writers with the heavyweight caliber of a Marcel Proust or James Joyce, we Americans can ignore his insults.

 

IBIS 

Message Edited by IBIS on 10-22-2008 10:39 PM
IBIS

"I am a part of everything that I have read."
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mwinasu
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Re: #30 The Nobel Prize dust up

IBIS

1930 Sinclair Lewis --1936 Eugene O' Neill -- 1938 Pearl S. Buck --  1949 William Faulkner -- 1954 Ernest Hemingway -- 1962 John Steinbeck --1976 Saul Bellow--  1978 Isaac Bashevis Singer-- 1980 Czeslaw Milosz -- 1987 Joseph Brodsky--1993 Toni Morrison  These are all Americans. We have more winners than the UK, Italy, Germany and the former USSR.  If I counted  correctly,  with the inclusion of the latest winner, I believe the French have one more winner than the US.  Until the last winner, I think we were  tied for first place.  I might be wrong because I did not count the Chinese writer Gao Xingjian as French.  As for Nabakov, I wonder if he would have accepted?  He seemed so anti-intellectual in all his work.

I agree that Phillip Roth is a fine American writer.  Unfortunately I haven't been able to judge him against his competitors in the international community.  For the most part we only see them after they win.  I wonder if Ande can get that guy to tell us how  writers get nominated?

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katknit
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Re: #30 The Nobel Prize dust up

You make some good points, but he was talking about current lit in America. But we do have some good contemp writers, who I think the committee should have considered with more care.
No two persons ever read the same book. [Edmund Wilson]
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IBIS
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Re: #30 The Nobel Prize dust up

[ Edited ]

mwinasu, thank you for posting the list of American Literature Nobel recipients... it's both positively and negatively enlightening.

 

What's interesting is not so much about who is ON the list, but rather who is NOT. What's missing are writers whom we consider literary lions...  like James Joyce, The Nobel committee has an uneven reputation for recognizing genius. Although the reputations of such winners as TS Eliot, William Faulkner and Hemingway have survived, other winners like Sinclair Lews or Pearl Buck have faded into literary limbo.

  

Writers like Philip Roth or Joyce Carol Oates are American writers who have been mentioned for years as worthy candidates without ever getting the nod. The last American to win was Toni Morrison in 1993... the year before Mr. Engdahl joined the Nobel committee... I can safely predict that no American will win the prize until Mr. Engdahl retires.

 

His comment that our current literary output is too isolated, too insular... makes me think that he has a very narrow view of what constitutes literature today. It betrays his own insular attitude towards our very diverse country. 

 

One interesting thought is that, although the prize money and the publicity is good to have, it can also become a burden... a kind of kiss of death. Apparently many honorees consider the Nobel prize, which crowned their life effort, and yet, paradoxically set them and their readers up to feel that nothing that they write afterwards is as good.

 

I've been reading about Doris Lessing's disastrous turn-around in her life since she won last year. She complained in a newspaper article that the fame has monopolized her every waking hour that it's become difficult to do what she does best... write.  

 

IBIS 

Message Edited by IBIS on 10-23-2008 09:44 PM
IBIS

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mwinasu
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Re: #30 The Nobel Prize dust up

IBIS  Well James Joyce was not an American nor was Proust.  So I am not really sure why you brought up their names.  But I always wondered about Mark Twain.  I suppose that if you can only award to one author a year and you have the whole world to choose from some guys are going to die before you get around to them. I do not know how many countries there are in the world.  Everytime I figure it out it changes, but I do know that it is a lot ( more than 100). Chile, Turkey, Guatemala,Colombia, Nigeria, Egypt and St. Lucia also have writers that have been recognized by  the committee. Do you know how Phillip Roth compares with the authors from these countries?   Have you ever read anything written by anyone from these countries?  If you have not, how can you be so sure that you are right?  And my poor dear, if you haven't read Pearl S. Buck or Sinclair Lewis I feel very sorry for you.
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Re: Quality of American Literature

Instant communication world wide. A global economy in which the US is no longer dominant. New international coalitions as old ones break down.  Immigration to the US no longer confined to Europe/Christian/Jewish but incorporating different religions which are not understood by one another.Things like that. The changes that have taken place in the last 20 years are amazing, I think.
No two persons ever read the same book. [Edmund Wilson]
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mwinasu
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Re: Quality of American Literature

OK katknit since I just don't understand, could you help me by answering some questions?  Which American writers did the committee consider this year?  I do not know and I would like to.  Do you have a list of all the writers that were considered this year?  I sure would like to see that too.  How do they go about picking those writers- how are people nominated?  Please go back and read the posts that Ande made.  Read them carefully and ask yourself if maybe you have misunderstood  the nature of the comment about our isolation.

I want you to know that my comments are not directed at you at this point .  I am just saying something that has been bugging me about this whole conversation. Not just the one online but the one I have been having in the real world.  People seem to think that we are entitled to win the Prize because we are Americans  and  America is always the best at everything all the time.  We do not need any outside proof of this. We just know. Anybody who says different is a malcontent and an evil person that does not appreciate this country.  And people wonder why I fear the future.

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Re: Quality of American Literature

Thank you, I could not have said it better.  And what is wrong with American writers?   I don't care who writes a good book, however, cultural understanding goes a long way in reading comprehension.  Besides, I read for entertainment....to escape from the doldrums of everyday life.  Then again, I'm not sure I have even seen any German, French, Japanese and etc books translated into English AND promoted as American books.  I have read several books of English (UK) origin.....is it because I understand the language???....and have enjoyed them.  Especially PD James and Edward Rutherfurd. 

 

If someone judges me by the avant garde of my library, well too bad......they will be disappointed.  You know, Richard Peck and Avi write some very good stories for the young and young at heart readers.