Welcome, Rhyll McMaster! Feather Man author joins our discussion all this week [ Edited ]

[Liz_25Joey]

Hi Rhyll,

I was not able to participate in the conversations much due to a couple family emergencies but I wanted to let you know that I enjoyed the book toward the end. In the beginning I was confused just due to the autralian language but I was able to figure it out. Then the more I read, the more heated I became, I know this is a book but I am one of those who really gets, I guess you can say "emotionally involved" in a story or movie. Also I can sympathize with Sooky when Lionel started messing with her. I wished I could just claw Lionel's eyes out at that time. Then Sooky not being able to tell anyone about it.

Anyway I guess the only question I have is why did you make it more of a continuance (sp?) of Sooky being with these guys that would constantly say basically ,"who's girl/popsy are you?" was it a reference to them wanting to control her? Then in the end I was left wondering if Paul would end up being as much of a jerk as the previous guys. Although I actually came to like him, the end was weird when he whispered that to her. I'm about to read through the questions you have already answered and if you have answered this already then I am sorry for asking it again.

Message Edited by Liz_25Joey on 10-02-2008 01:58 PM

[Deltadawn]

I agree 100% with your statement, Viv.

---

vivico1 wrote:

I don't feel sympathy for him for his abandonment, it was deserved. If I have any sympathy for him at all, it is because I think he too was a victim of Lionel and never learned honest, real loving relationships, or how to trust either. He just learned how to take without any thought for others. Just as Lionel took Sooky's ability to receive and trust love, he took Redmond's ability to give it. But just as we want Sooky to learn she can overcome this, abused people do not have to in turn become abusers too as Redmond did. I have no real sympathy for him in that respect.

[Melissa_W Moderator]

Dear Rhyll,

Thank you so very much for your book.  I really enjoyed reading Sooky's story, graphic bits and all, and I thoroughly loved how Sooky's appreciation for her natural world and all it's details later helped Sooky define her paintings.  Your choice of last line was brilliant; I got the feeling in the final section that Paul senses there is something awful in Sooky's past but because he doesn't know the extent he doesn't realize that "Who's popsy/girl are you?" brings all the abuse back to the surface.  It's an common and innocent line to everyone but Sooky.  Did you ever consider having Sooky tell Paul what happened to her, in all the gory detail?  He is set up to be a very insightful character.

PS - Thanks also for giving Redmond his comeuppance.  Jerk.  Since Lionel didn't get pecked to death by chooks (like I wanted) it was probably the next best thing and ties up so well with Lyce and Daphnis.

[OceaniaRhyll]

---

vivico1 wrote:

 On the one hand, he wants to have his father's love, every bit as much as Sooky wants her father's love or any other kid does. But on the other hand, he has got to see things through his father's eyes to feel accepted by him or to at least not blame him for the things he does, so he can love his dad. For him to acknowledge to Sooky what he knew about what he did to her, or to acknowledge by action to Rosie what Lionel did to her, is to now see his father as an animal. He was a kid living with an animal for a father but a kid can't process that and doesn't want to see it so often he will become the thing he sees, this is his example in life.

You are right, he is "damaged in his maturation process" . He is damaged by Lionel and the things he learned from him and also in his view of women because of a mother who took it all and said nothing back. Even if this was the norm for women then or the fear of a sick woman, a child will see this as how a woman is or can be treated.

 Even as Redmond may get on in life ok, he is still chasing what he doesn't know what it is or how to get it, so he will always be found in crowds who seem to adore him, he will always look in mirrors with adoration for himself even when he doesn't understand that the part of him that can not be alone, would rather go out drinking than be alone, is really self loathing.

---

OceaniaRhyll wrote:

---

I'm interested in this idea that Redmond is Lionel's victim too. When writing him I never thought of him like that, because I was only seeing him from Sooky's point of view. Sooky sees Redmond as very close to his father - for instance on pp117/118 where Lionel and Redmond tinker companionably with their cars, and later Redmond helps Lionel into the taxi to go to Dolly's funeral. When Rosie attacks Lionel, Redmond says:' Don't you talk like that about my Pop.'

My author's perspective is that Redmond is an empty vessel, permanently damaged in his emotional maturation process, incapable of ethical judgement, an amoral man. He exists to survive in the best possible shape for Redmond. Every other consideration goes by the board, and he is impervious.

---

---

You are spot-on Vivico, in your psychological profile of a narcissist, and their intrinsic self-loathing. These are the inferences that the reader can draw about Redmond's character.  As the writer, though, I have to be careful that Sooky doesn't have more understanding of how Redmond came to be the way he is than is natural for her character to have. As she gets a bit older and wiser she starts to see into Redmond and his weaknesses, and this is why she pities him his hollowness.  At one point she realizes that he is acting out of fear - p235:  "I believe he feels one thing only: fear. Fear that if the world does not mirror his desires, it will reduce him to nothing. If the mirror speaks the truth, it will shatter him."   But she can't be a psychologist, she's got to keep being Sooky.

[OceaniaRhyll]

---

IBIS wrote:
I actually liked "Hardhearted Hanna from Alabama" more... it has the ring of true pitch... as musicians are fond of saying. And yes, I'm as stern as Sooky... I was very glad that she didn't relent and became his little helper....

Thank you for sharing two of your poems with us... I had hoped you would... I've been trying to hunt down copies of your published poems, but so far have come up empty.

I recognize in your two poems the crystal clear imagery that I first saw in "Feather Man"....

I saw the fife, I could almost touch it...

"I loved the round silver O
of the first finger hole,
the dark bole of its insides,
the calm gradations of hole size,
the staunch cork in the end of it."

I loved the "good-enough" (not perfection, not the excellent... but the good-enough... that's great!)

There must be good-enough;
big hands to catch the fall,
soft cushions for the head,
the lid removed to reveal
warm acts given and received.
The stitch must draw its thread

Thank you, Rhyll, for sharing these marvelous poems. I hope they're available in the States.

IBIS

---

Thank you, Ibis. I may have mentioned that I've used at least 20 of my poems, translated back into prose, in my novel. At the risk of launching into a full-blown seminar session, here are a few references:  on p219 I've used part of my poem 'Bath'.

BATH

I lie perfectly still

my legs submerged

in the mulled profundity

of bath salts and water

encased in white ceramic.

By the optics of immersion

my legs are made museum prototypes.

The top half of my feet,

breaking the perfect rim

are pink amphibian protrusions.

While pointing upwards,

due to the magic of reflection,

at the same time they grow down.

I am a woman of my times,

my best feet

both forwards and backwards.

I believe protocol says I can't advertise here, but if you go to my website at www.rhyllmcmaster.com you can see all my poetry books listed. They are out of print, but copies can still be found on the internet. I hope I'm allowed to say that. If not, Ande can rap me over the knuckles.

Here's one more:  on p252 I use parts of this poem:

NOT HOLLYWOOD

When the mopoke calls

it is not Hollywood.

No matinee idol

will burst out of a bush.

A bird sits in a tree

repeatedly staking out its territory.

When the fox howls

it is not a Russian saga.

There will be no wild-eyed Cossack.

A hungry carnivore

sniffs a sheep carcass,

leaps sideways,

looks over its shoulder.

When the moon comes up

with a shudder

and flies from its poplar mast

with a cold fury

the cold fury is in the pit of me.

I am the cast of one

in this film with no director.

This is the planet earth.

I am very lonely.

There is no Night of Nights.

This is not Hollywood.

[vivico1]

As the writer, though, I have to be careful that Sooky doesn't have more understanding of how Redmond came to be the way he is than is natural for her character to have.

Oh yes, quite right! To tell you the truth, I learned these things myself from my own experiences, not from something I found out later when I was able to go to college and study. It just made the courses much easier to understand actually lol. When you are young and going through it, you don't understand why they are what they are, you don't know for sure its not your fault and for the most part, you really don't care why they are that way, you just want them to stop! Much learning comes from just growing up and by observing others in your world. Some people observe while interacting with others and personally, I think you learn things faster that way and understand them better too. Some observe from a distance, like Sooky does, either by not joining in the group, as we see with her and Peter's world, or by staying emotionally distant, as she is the whole time growing up. This is what we wonder with your last sentences, will she ever be able to completely overcome her emotional distance and trust herself and others to just go for it!

I was mostly saying as readers we can see this happening and understand it as such, where Sooky can't. Or at least she doesn't until she is maturing some and realizes what you pointed out on page 235, that he is acting out of fear. I had forgotten she even said that, thank you for that quoted passage! See, she is no psychologist, she just recognizes his weakness. She may never connect this up to him being a victim of Lionel too, in the way we are talking about it here, but I think she recognizes fear very well. And it may be her own feelings of fear in her life, that helps her have some pity for him....where I, as a reader, do not have any pity for him!  LOL.

---

OceaniaRhyll wrote:

---

vivico1 wrote:

On the one hand, he wants to have his father's love, every bit as much as Sooky wants her father's love or any other kid does. But on the other hand, he has got to see things through his father's eyes to feel accepted by him or to at least not blame him for the things he does, so he can love his dad. For him to acknowledge to Sooky what he knew about what he did to her, or to acknowledge by action to Rosie what Lionel did to her, is to now see his father as an animal. He was a kid living with an animal for a father but a kid can't process that and doesn't want to see it so often he will become the thing he sees, this is his example in life.

You are right, he is "damaged in his maturation process" . He is damaged by Lionel and the things he learned from him and also in his view of women because of a mother who took it all and said nothing back. Even if this was the norm for women then or the fear of a sick woman, a child will see this as how a woman is or can be treated.

Even as Redmond may get on in life ok, he is still chasing what he doesn't know what it is or how to get it, so he will always be found in crowds who seem to adore him, he will always look in mirrors with adoration for himself even when he doesn't understand that the part of him that can not be alone, would rather go out drinking than be alone, is really self loathing.

---

OceaniaRhyll wrote:

---

I'm interested in this idea that Redmond is Lionel's victim too. When writing him I never thought of him like that, because I was only seeing him from Sooky's point of view. Sooky sees Redmond as very close to his father - for instance on pp117/118 where Lionel and Redmond tinker companionably with their cars, and later Redmond helps Lionel into the taxi to go to Dolly's funeral. When Rosie attacks Lionel, Redmond says:' Don't you talk like that about my Pop.'

My author's perspective is that Redmond is an empty vessel, permanently damaged in his emotional maturation process, incapable of ethical judgement, an amoral man. He exists to survive in the best possible shape for Redmond. Every other consideration goes by the board, and he is impervious.

---

---

You are spot-on Vivico, in your psychological profile of a narcissist, and their intrinsic self-loathing. These are the inferences that the reader can draw about Redmond's character. As the writer, though, I have to be careful that Sooky doesn't have more understanding of how Redmond came to be the way he is than is natural for her character to have. As she gets a bit older and wiser she starts to see into Redmond and his weaknesses, and this is why she pities him his hollowness. At one point she realizes that he is acting out of fear - p235: "I believe he feels one thing only: fear. Fear that if the world does not mirror his desires, it will reduce him to nothing. If the mirror speaks the truth, it will shatter him." But she can't be a psychologist, she's got to keep being Sooky.

---

[OceaniaRhyll]

---

Deltadawn wrote:

I agree 100% with your statement, Viv.

---

vivico1 wrote:

I don't feel sympathy for him for his abandonment, it was deserved. If I have any sympathy for him at all, it is because I think he too was a victim of Lionel and never learned honest, real loving relationships, or how to trust either. He just learned how to take without any thought for others. Just as Lionel took Sooky's ability to receive and trust love, he took Redmond's ability to give it. But just as we want Sooky to learn she can overcome this, abused people do not have to in turn become abusers too as Redmond did. I have no real sympathy for him in that respect.

---

I am so interested in this question of moral choice. Why does one person choose to perpetuate abuse and another chooses the opposite?  Why are some people full of empathy and others are 'feather men'?   Bad experiences are not the deciding factor. It is a mystery.

[OceaniaRhyll]

---

vivico1 wrote:

As the writer, though, I have to be careful that Sooky doesn't have more understanding of how Redmond came to be the way he is than is natural for her character to have.

Oh yes, quite right! To tell you the truth, I learned these things myself from my own experiences, not from something I found out later when I was able to go to college and study. It just made the courses much easier to understand actually lol. When you are young and going through it, you don't understand why they are what they are, you don't know for sure its not your fault and for the most part, you really don't care why they are that way, you just want them to stop! Much learning comes from just growing up and by observing others in your world. Some people observe while interacting with others and personally, I think you learn things faster that way and understand them better too. Some observe from a distance, like Sooky does, either by not joining in the group, as we see with her and Peter's world, or by staying emotionally distant, as she is the whole time growing up. This is what we wonder with your last sentences, will she ever be able to completely overcome her emotional distance and trust herself and others to just go for it!

I was mostly saying as readers we can see this happening and understand it as such, where Sooky can't. Or at least she doesn't until she is maturing some and realizes what you pointed out on page 235, that he is acting out of fear. I had forgotten she even said that, thank you for that quoted passage! See, she is no psychologist, she just recognizes his weakness. She may never connect this up to him being a victim of Lionel too, in the way we are talking about it here, but I think she recognizes fear very well. And it may be her own feelings of fear in her life, that helps her have some pity for him....where I, as a reader, do not have any pity for him!  LOL.

---

I was hoping that readers would not get too frustrated with Sooky's slow progress towards understanding herself and those around her.  Some of you did, but I had to take the chance that you would hang in there and maybe come round to understanding her situation in the end.  That's why I really had to leave her still developing, with the reader wondering if she will ever overcome her mistrust.  She's a work in progress.

---

---

[OceaniaRhyll]

---

Liz_25Joey wrote:

Hi Rhyll,

I was not able to participate in the conversations much due to a couple family emergencies but I wanted to let you know that I enjoyed the book toward the end. In the beginning I was confused just due to the autralian language but I was able to figure it out. Then the more I read, the more heated I became, I know this is a book but I am one of those who really gets, I guess you can say "emotionally involved" in a story or movie. Also I can sympathize with Sooky when Lionel started messing with her. I wished I could just claw Lionel's eyes out at that time. Then Sooky not being able to tell anyone about it.

Anyway I guess the only question I have is why did you make it more of a continuance (sp?) of Sooky being with these guys that would constantly say basically ,"who's girl/popsy are you?" was it a reference to them wanting to control her? Then in the end I was left wondering if Paul would end up being as much of a jerk as the previous guys. Although I actually came to like him, the end was weird when he whispered that to her. I'm about to read through the questions you have already answered and if you have answered this already then I am sorry for asking it again.

Message Edited by Liz_25Joey on 10-02-2008 01:58 PM

---

Hi - I'm glad you could join the discussion.  I guess I have really answered your questions, but Sooky kept making wrong choices because she lacked any experience of a normal, healthy relationship. She thought what she was living through WAS normal, and that life was rather dark and difficult.  That's partly why she found it so hard to trust Paul's basically good intentions.  She does say at one point that, with her luck, he "probably was too good to be true. There must be some catch. Paul was quite likely a homicidal schizophrenic who murdered silly women on the dot every Monday." p247.  It's nice that you came to like Paul in the end.  He was a difficult character to write, because I wanted him to be a bit of a knight in white armour, come to rescue her, but not too cheesy!  His armour had to have a bit of rust on it.

[OceaniaRhyll]

---

pedsphleb wrote:

Dear Rhyll,

Thank you so very much for your book.  I really enjoyed reading Sooky's story, graphic bits and all, and I thoroughly loved how Sooky's appreciation for her natural world and all it's details later helped Sooky define her paintings.  Your choice of last line was brilliant; I got the feeling in the final section that Paul senses there is something awful in Sooky's past but because he doesn't know the extent he doesn't realize that "Who's popsy/girl are you?" brings all the abuse back to the surface.  It's an common and innocent line to everyone but Sooky.  Did you ever consider having Sooky tell Paul what happened to her, in all the gory detail?  He is set up to be a very insightful character.

PS - Thanks also for giving Redmond his comeuppance.  Jerk.  Since Lionel didn't get pecked to death by chooks (like I wanted) it was probably the next best thing and ties up so well with Lyce and Daphnis.

---

Hello Melissa,

Pecked to death by chooks.... I love it. Why didn't I think of that?  Yeah, Redmond is a jerk, isn't he?

 No, I didn't want to tie up the story too tightly with true understanding flowing between Sooky and Paul. She wasn't ready to tell him her story - she's still too tentative.  I have toyed with the idea of a sequel, but on the other hand maybe her story has more integrity stopping where it has. Maybe ...

I'm so pleased that you thought there was a tie up between her hyper-appreciation of the natural world and her paintings. I enjoyed painting those works. Now the thing to do is have a virtual art auction and make lots of money!

[OceaniaRhyll]

---

pedsphleb wrote:

Dear Rhyll,

Thank you so very much for your book.  I really enjoyed reading Sooky's story, graphic bits and all, and I thoroughly loved how Sooky's appreciation for her natural world and all it's details later helped Sooky define her paintings.  Your choice of last line was brilliant; I got the feeling in the final section that Paul senses there is something awful in Sooky's past but because he doesn't know the extent he doesn't realize that "Who's popsy/girl are you?" brings all the abuse back to the surface.  It's an common and innocent line to everyone but Sooky.  Did you ever consider having Sooky tell Paul what happened to her, in all the gory detail?  He is set up to be a very insightful character.

PS - Thanks also for giving Redmond his comeuppance.  Jerk.  Since Lionel didn't get pecked to death by chooks (like I wanted) it was probably the next best thing and ties up so well with Lyce and Daphnis.

---

I forgot to say that I crochet.  About as badly as I play the flute.

[Melissa_W Moderator]

I crochet poorly, too.  It never caught on with me the way knitting did.

---

OceaniaRhyll wrote:

I forgot to say that I crochet.  About as badly as I play the flute.

---

[vivico1]

Rhyll,

It is Friday and for the most part clubs go dead on the weekends. Then Monday a new club will start, so I wanted to say thank you now for being with us. As you know, I have not been the biggest fan of your style of writing and found the first part confusing. I was not ready to just start out inside some messed up head and jump about in time frames either, it still feels disjointed to me. And the amount of Australian slang in the first part was a bit of a distraction for me, but you know, it shouldn't be. I think maybe American readers are too spoiled and think the world is suppose to write to "us", rather than us expand our minds to the world of words from other countries. I do want to say tho, the story itself, I did enjoy, in a rather macombe way tho. I did like it much better as it evolved, as Sooky did I guess. I have no other writing of yours to compare with, to see if its your style I just don't connect with or how this particular one is told! I am sure that will change tho, meaning that this won't be the only book you write for me to compare with . I did like the ending, especially that it was Sooky's perception and not that Paul was just another bad man, or I would have tossed the book as just anti male lol.

I want you to know that its been a very good club and I do appreciate you taking the time to be with us and sharing thoughts and ideas with us. It has been very interesting. May I wish you the best of luck in all your future endeavors and I will keep an eye out for more books from you. Thanks so much. Vivian

p.s. Speaking of keeping an "eye" out. I still like the Eye cover the best and say this one looks like a 50's cheesy dimestore novel cover LOL! I can't help it, that other one really grabbed me, this one gagged me hehe. Good to meet you. Thanks so much for this opportunity.

[OceaniaRhyll]

---

vivico1 wrote:

Rhyll,

It is Friday and for the most part clubs go dead on the weekends. Then Monday a new club will start, so I wanted to say thank you now for being with us. As you know, I have not been the biggest fan of your style of writing and found the first part confusing. I was not ready to just start out inside some messed up head and jump about in time frames either, it still feels disjointed to me. And the amount of Australian slang in the first part was a bit of a distraction for me, but you know, it shouldn't be. I think maybe American readers are too spoiled and think the world is suppose to write to "us", rather than us expand our minds to the world of words from other countries. I do want to say tho, the story itself, I did enjoy, in a rather macombe way tho. I did like it much better as it evolved, as Sooky did I guess. I have no other writing of yours to compare with, to see if its your style I just don't connect with or how this particular one is told! I am sure that will change tho, meaning that this won't be the only book you write for me to compare with . I did like the ending, especially that it was Sooky's perception and not that Paul was just another bad man, or I would have tossed the book as just anti male lol.

I want you to know that its been a very good club and I do appreciate you taking the time to be with us and sharing thoughts and ideas with us. It has been very interesting. May I wish you the best of luck in all your future endeavors and I will keep an eye out for more books from you. Thanks so much. Vivian

p.s. Speaking of keeping an "eye" out. I still like the Eye cover the best and say this one looks like a 50's cheesy dimestore novel cover LOL! I can't help it, that other one really grabbed me, this one gagged me hehe. Good to meet you. Thanks so much for this opportunity.

---

Dear Vivian,

I should be thanking you for making this discussion the great one it's been.  You have been a major part of it, and I have appreciated your honesty. We really have got down to the nitty-gritty, and I certainly have been enlightened in the process.  I think you did very well hacking your way through the 'Australianisms'... I guess I used more of them than I would normally, because I wanted to give a flavour of the 50s. 

Isn't it great that despite your reservations at times about my style, Sooky's story won out?  That's what it's all about for me - trying to understand the complexities of human motivation - the novel rules, okay!

[debbook]

---

OceaniaRhyll wrote:

---

---

I was hoping that readers would not get too frustrated with Sooky's slow progress towards understanding herself and those around her.  Some of you did, but I had to take the chance that you would hang in there and maybe come round to understanding her situation in the end.  That's why I really had to leave her still developing, with the reader wondering if she will ever overcome her mistrust.  She's a work in progress.

---

---

I think that it would have been too easy for her to make quick progress and not true to the story or to life. She's still very young anyway.

[debbook]

I forgot one of my questions, I hope I'm not too late! What exactly is a Feather Man? Is that an Australian expression?

[kiakar]

Hello Rhyll,

I hope you didn't leave cyber space forever. I have been on vacation and couldn't get to a computer alot so didn't get to keep up with the conversations. So sorry I missed them.  Of course, I have never read a more intelligent written book in my life. It delt with some serious stuff which you handled fantastic. It helps people who have been through this to read books of this sort even though its difficult to comphrehend regardless.  You covered so great, the frustrations a child feels afterwards and then later when she is grown, its hard to deal with life at times. The story was so true to form. Thanks so much for it and also your editors for letting us read this wonderful book.   Linda

[OceaniaRhyll]

---

kiakar wrote:

Hello Rhyll,

I hope you didn't leave cyber space forever. I have been on vacation and couldn't get to a computer alot so didn't get to keep up with the conversations. So sorry I missed them.  Of course, I have never read a more intelligent written book in my life. It delt with some serious stuff which you handled fantastic. It helps people who have been through this to read books of this sort even though its difficult to comphrehend regardless.  You covered so great, the frustrations a child feels afterwards and then later when she is grown, its hard to deal with life at times. The story was so true to form. Thanks so much for it and also your editors for letting us read this wonderful book.   Linda

---

Dear Linda,

No, I'm still here in cyberspace, and thank you so much for your kind words - I loved you saying Sooky's story was 'so true to form', and I didn't mind the bit about 'intelligent' either. Sorry you missed the chat - it was a great one.