Mary Bennet Article

[Choisya]

I agree Cahill, we are too quick to put labels on odd behaviour these days and I find Mary's behaviour normal, if rather annoying. She is also portrayed as not being very attractive and that, amongst prettier sisters, brings its own burdens.

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Cahill42 wrote:

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LizzieAnn wrote:
I found this article about Mary online that I thought you might find interesting.

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Brilliant find. I never thought of Mary being autistic before, but it adds an interesting aspect to her character. Although, a person can "live in their own world" and not necessarily be autistic. Sometimes I think that we as a society are too quick to put a label on someone who doesn't fit in a neat little box with a nice bow. Mary is the middle child, and is, at times, quite forgotten by the other Bennets. She doesn't "fit in," a phrase that I'm sure many (including myself) can identify with. When a person has such overbearing siblings as Mary does, it's not really surprising that she doesn't get a chance to shine until said siblings have "left the building," so to speak.

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[E_Darcy]

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LizzieAnn wrote:
I found this article about Mary online that I thought you might find interesting. The article is actually about two minior Austen charactyers, and Mary is the second character discussed. Her section can be found on the 3rd & 4th pages.

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Great Find!

[LizzieAnn]

I came across this interesting article/essay on Mary Bennet and her father that I thought you might find interesting. Please be aware that if you have not finished reading Pride & Prejudice, that there are SPOILERS.

[Choisya]

I have a lot of sympathy with this pscychological interpretation but it begs the question of why Austen herself wrote Mary this way and what it was she intended by doing so. I am still inclined to think that she was cruelly parodying daughters of this time who acted as Mary acted, spoke as Mary spoke, as if they were a learned book themselves, and who play and sang very badly.

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LizzieAnn wrote:
I came across this interesting article/essay on Mary Bennet and her father that I thought you might find interesting. Please be aware that if you have not finished reading Pride & Prejudice, that there are SPOILERS.

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[Everyman]

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LizzieAnn wrote:
I came across this interesting article/essay on Mary Bennet and her father that I thought you might find interesting. Please be aware that if you have not finished reading Pride & Prejudice, that there are SPOILERS.

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Thanks for finding this! Interesting article, and nice to see that I'm not the only person who thinks Mary is worth thinking more about.

Would Mr. Collins have married Mary if given a nudge in that direction by Mr. Bennet?

But I can't say that I agree with her conclusion. And nor does Jane Austen, if her comment outside the book, that Mary later married a clerk of Mr. Phillips, is to be given any weight.

[Laurel]

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LizzieAnn wrote:
I came across this interesting article/essay on Mary Bennet and her father that I thought you might find interesting. Please be aware that if you have not finished reading Pride & Prejudice, that there are SPOILERS.

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That's a fascinating article, Liz. Thank you!

[Laurel]

Or is she perhaps parodying novelists who make their characters sound like old books?

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Choisya wrote:
I have a lot of sympathy with this pscychological interpretation but it begs the question of why Austen herself wrote Mary this way and what it was she intended by doing so. I am still inclined to think that she was cruelly parodying daughters of this time who acted as Mary acted, spoke as Mary spoke, as if they were a learned book themselves, and who play and sang very badly.

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LizzieAnn wrote:
I came across this interesting article/essay on Mary Bennet and her father that I thought you might find interesting. Please be aware that if you have not finished reading Pride & Prejudice, that there are SPOILERS.

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[Choisya]

Which novelists do you have in mind Laurel?

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Laurel wrote:
Or is she perhaps parodying novelists who make their characters sound like old books?

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Choisya wrote:
I have a lot of sympathy with this pscychological interpretation but it begs the question of why Austen herself wrote Mary this way and what it was she intended by doing so. I am still inclined to think that she was cruelly parodying daughters of this time who acted as Mary acted, spoke as Mary spoke, as if they were a learned book themselves, and who play and sang very badly.

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LizzieAnn wrote:
I came across this interesting article/essay on Mary Bennet and her father that I thought you might find interesting. Please be aware that if you have not finished reading Pride & Prejudice, that there are SPOILERS.

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[Laurel]

I was just thinking in general of the gothic novels she parodies elsewhere.

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Choisya wrote:
Which novelists do you have in mind Laurel?

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Laurel wrote:
Or is she perhaps parodying novelists who make their characters sound like old books?

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Choisya wrote:
I have a lot of sympathy with this pscychological interpretation but it begs the question of why Austen herself wrote Mary this way and what it was she intended by doing so. I am still inclined to think that she was cruelly parodying daughters of this time who acted as Mary acted, spoke as Mary spoke, as if they were a learned book themselves, and who play and sang very badly.

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LizzieAnn wrote:
I came across this interesting article/essay on Mary Bennet and her father that I thought you might find interesting. Please be aware that if you have not finished reading Pride & Prejudice, that there are SPOILERS.

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[Choisya]

I see. Then you are probably right.

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Laurel wrote:
I was just thinking in general of the gothic novels she parodies elsewhere.

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Choisya wrote:
Which novelists do you have in mind Laurel?

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Laurel wrote:
Or is she perhaps parodying novelists who make their characters sound like old books?

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Choisya wrote:
I have a lot of sympathy with this pscychological interpretation but it begs the question of why Austen herself wrote Mary this way and what it was she intended by doing so. I am still inclined to think that she was cruelly parodying daughters of this time who acted as Mary acted, spoke as Mary spoke, as if they were a learned book themselves, and who play and sang very badly.

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LizzieAnn wrote:
I came across this interesting article/essay on Mary Bennet and her father that I thought you might find interesting. Please be aware that if you have not finished reading Pride & Prejudice, that there are SPOILERS.

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[Cahill42]

Very interesting article, if a bit harsh on Mary and Mr. Bennet. Yes, it probably would have made sense for Mr. Bennet to "nudge" Mr. Collins towards Mary, but then we wouldn't have the story that we have. If Charlotte hadn't married Mr. Collins, then Lizzie (probably) wouldn't have gone to Hunsford to visit her, and then we wouldn't have the famous proposal/rejection scene and Darcy's letter. Cause and effect and plot lines. Without these, we wouldn't have a story, a story that many have loved for years. I have to wonder that if Mary had married Mr. Collins, if the book would have turned out the same. I don't think that it would have.

[Choisya]

LOL Cahill - that's a lovely post. I often think such things when we are discussing the plots of novels but am not so good at putting them into words I actually like Mr Bennett and think he is just a bumbling eccentric in the English tradition. Do we know his former profession? I think of him as an absent-minded-professor sort of person.

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Cahill42 wrote:
Very interesting article, if a bit harsh on Mary and Mr. Bennet. Yes, it probably would have made sense for Mr. Bennet to "nudge" Mr. Collins towards Mary, but then we wouldn't have the story that we have. If Charlotte hadn't married Mr. Collins, then Lizzie (probably) wouldn't have gone to Hunsford to visit her, and then we wouldn't have the famous proposal/rejection scene and Darcy's letter. Cause and effect and plot lines. Without these, we wouldn't have a story, a story that many have loved for years. I have to wonder that if Mary had married Mr. Collins, if the book would have turned out the same. I don't think that it would have.

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[Laurel]

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Choisya wrote:
LOL Cahill - that's a lovely post. I often think such things when we are discussing the plots of novels but am not so good at putting them into words I actually like Mr Bennett and think he is just a bumbling eccentric in the English tradition. Do we know his former profession? I think of him as an absent-minded-professor sort of person.

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So that's his problem: He's English!

[Choisya]

That's it Laurel - how would he be if he was an American then - more like Everyman and paddling his daughters into shape?

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Laurel wrote:

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Choisya wrote:
LOL Cahill - that's a lovely post. I often think such things when we are discussing the plots of novels but am not so good at putting them into words I actually like Mr Bennett and think he is just a bumbling eccentric in the English tradition. Do we know his former profession? I think of him as an absent-minded-professor sort of person.

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So that's his problem: He's English!

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Message Edited by Choisya on 03-02-200701:26 PM

[kiakar]

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LizzieAnn wrote:
I came across this interesting article/essay on Mary Bennet and her father that I thought you might find interesting. Please be aware that if you have not finished reading Pride & Prejudice, that there are SPOILERS.

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That article was fabulous , Lizzie Ann.
That explains Mary's character to a "T" and the realization that she was in her own way, desparately seeking approval from her father. I ponder the notion, did she forever live in this isolation of not living her life to the fullest.

[Redcatlady]

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kiakar wrote:

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LizzieAnn wrote:
I came across this interesting article/essay on Mary Bennet and her father that I thought you might find interesting. Please be aware that if you have not finished reading Pride & Prejudice, that there are SPOILERS.

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That article was fabulous , Lizzie Ann.
That explains Mary's character to a "T" and the realization that she was in her own way, desparately seeking approval from her father. I ponder the notion, did she forever live in this isolation of not living her life to the fullest.

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I wonder: what kind of a plot twist would it have been if Mary had been keeping a secret diary in which she could get right the things she wasn't able to say aloud, as well as "voice" some rather Austen-like opinions of her family?

Melissa/Redcatlady

[LizzieAnn]

As Mary is seated at the dinner table the night of Lizzy’s return with the Gardiners, Jane, & Kitty, she comments to Lizzy:

"This is a most unfortunate affair; and will probably be much talked of. But we must stem the tide of malice, and pour into the wounded bosoms of each other the balm of sisterly consolation."

Then, perceiving in Elizabeth no inclination of replying, she added, "Unhappy as the event must be for Lydia, we may draw from it this useful lesson: that loss of virtue in a female is irretrievable -- that one false step involves her in endless ruin -- that her reputation is no less brittle than it is beautiful -- and that she cannot be too much guarded in her behaviour towards the undeserving of the other sex."

Elizabeth lifted up her eyes in amazement, but was too much oppressed to make any reply. Mary, however, continued to console herself with such kind of moral extractions from the evil before them. [Volume 3, Chapter 5 (47), page 279-280]

Comments?

[Everyman]

Mary is but reflecting the best learning of the day. It seems harsh under the circumstances, and is certainly not balm to Lizzy's soul and thought of Darcy, but this is, it seems to me, classic Mary, and in it she simply reflects the classic lessons she has read.

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LizzieAnn wrote:
As Mary is seated at the dinner table the night of Lizzy’s return with the Gardiners, Jane, & Kitty, she comments to Lizzy:

"This is a most unfortunate affair; and will probably be much talked of. But we must stem the tide of malice, and pour into the wounded bosoms of each other the balm of sisterly consolation."

Then, perceiving in Elizabeth no inclination of replying, she added, "Unhappy as the event must be for Lydia, we may draw from it this useful lesson: that loss of virtue in a female is irretrievable -- that one false step involves her in endless ruin -- that her reputation is no less brittle than it is beautiful -- and that she cannot be too much guarded in her behaviour towards the undeserving of the other sex."

Elizabeth lifted up her eyes in amazement, but was too much oppressed to make any reply. Mary, however, continued to console herself with such kind of moral extractions from the evil before them. [Volume 3, Chapter 5 (47), page 279-280]

Comments?

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[Jansten75]

I had taken note in the movie version of P&P, as Mr. Collins was leaving from the embarrassing moment of being turned down by Elizabeth, Mary was standing in the doorway and gave,what I thought, a very affectionate look of interest in him. Did anyone else catch that?

[LizzieAnn]

Which film version?

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Jansten75 wrote:
I had taken note in the movie version of P&P, as Mr. Collins was leaving from the embarrassing moment of being turned down by Elizabeth, Mary was standing in the doorway and gave,what I thought, a very affectionate look of interest in him. Did anyone else catch that?

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