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Chapter V: Maria and Richard Hale

I think this passage is interesting:

Mrs. Hale raised her head.

'What does he mean by having doubts?' she asked [Margaret]. 'Surely, he does not mean that he thinks differently--that he knows better than the Church.'
Does he? I also found this passage moving:

Presently he opened the room-door, and stood there uncertain whether to come in. His face was gray and pale; he had a timid, fearful look in his eyes; something almost pitiful to see in a man's face; but that look of despondent uncertainty, of mental and bodily languor, touched his wife's heart. She went to him, and threw herself on his breast, crying out--

'Oh! Richard, Richard, you should have told me sooner!'
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Chapter VI: Margaret's Fear

[ Edited ]
This is another very interesting passage:

A stealthy, creeping, cranching sound among the crisp fallen leaves of the forest, beyond the garden, seemed almost close at hand. Margaret knew it was some poacher. Sitting up in her bed-room this past autumn, with the light of her candle extinguished, and purely revelling in the solemn beauty of the heavens and the earth, she had many a time seen the light noiseless leap of the poachers over the garden-fence, their quick tramp across the dewy moonlit lawn, their disappearance in the black still shadow beyond. The wild adventurous freedom of their life had taken her fancy; she felt inclined to wish them success; she had no fear of them. But to-night she was afraid, she knew not why.
Why do you think Margaret was afraid? What, or who, was she afraid of?

Message Edited by pmath on 01-08-200710:16 AM

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Chapter X: Pink

I love the passage below: there's a lot going on!

She stood by the tea-table in a light-coloured muslin gown, which had a good deal of pink about it. She looked as if she was not attending to the conversation, but solely busy with the tea-cups, among which her round ivory hands moved with pretty, noiseless, daintiness. She had a bracelet on one taper arm, which would fall down over her round wrist. Mr. Thornton watched the replacing of this troublesome ornament with far more attention than he listened to her father. It seemed as if it fascinated him to see her push it up impatiently, until it tightened her soft flesh; and then to mark the loosening--the fall. He could almost have exclaimed--'There it goes, again!' There was so little left to be done after he arrived at the preparation for tea, that he was almost sorry the obligation of eating and drinking came so soon to prevent his watching Margaret. She handed him his cup of tea with the proud air of an unwilling slave; but her eye caught the moment when he was ready for another cup; and he almost longed to ask her to do for him what he saw her compelled to do for her father, who took her little finger and thumb in his masculine hand, and made them serve as sugar-tongs.
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Choisya
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Re: Chapter V: Maria and Richard Hale

Yes, I was very moved by the 'look of despondent uncertainty, of mental and bodily languor almost pitiful to see in a man's face' which is why I sympathised with him not telling his rather foolish wife who should, I feel, have noticed his depression much sooner, as Margaret did. The words 'mental and bodily languor' speak to me of chronic depression, which a wife should have noticed. She and her maid seem very concerned with trivial things and too preoccupied with 'what might have been' than the 'what is'.




pmath wrote:
I think this passage is interesting:

Mrs. Hale raised her head.

'What does he mean by having doubts?' she asked [Margaret]. 'Surely, he does not mean that he thinks differently--that he knows better than the Church.'
Does he? I also found this passage moving:

Presently he opened the room-door, and stood there uncertain whether to come in. His face was gray and pale; he had a timid, fearful look in his eyes; something almost pitiful to see in a man's face; but that look of despondent uncertainty, of mental and bodily languor, touched his wife's heart. She went to him, and threw herself on his breast, crying out--

'Oh! Richard, Richard, you should have told me sooner!'



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Choisya
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Re: Chapter X: Pink

You will all shout at me I know but I like the rebellious bit of 'She handed him his cup of tea with the proud air of an unwilling slave'. That's my girl! :smileyhappy::smileyhappy:




pmath wrote:
I love the passage below: there's a lot going on!

She stood by the tea-table in a light-coloured muslin gown, which had a good deal of pink about it. She looked as if she was not attending to the conversation, but solely busy with the tea-cups, among which her round ivory hands moved with pretty, noiseless, daintiness. She had a bracelet on one taper arm, which would fall down over her round wrist. Mr. Thornton watched the replacing of this troublesome ornament with far more attention than he listened to her father. It seemed as if it fascinated him to see her push it up impatiently, until it tightened her soft flesh; and then to mark the loosening--the fall. He could almost have exclaimed--'There it goes, again!' There was so little left to be done after he arrived at the preparation for tea, that he was almost sorry the obligation of eating and drinking came so soon to prevent his watching Margaret. She handed him his cup of tea with the proud air of an unwilling slave; but her eye caught the moment when he was ready for another cup; and he almost longed to ask her to do for him what he saw her compelled to do for her father, who took her little finger and thumb in his masculine hand, and made them serve as sugar-tongs.



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Choisya
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Re: Chapter VI: Margaret's Fear

I think her peace of mind has been disturbed by the thought of having to move and she is now fearful of what is to come. The house is empty; it is as if they are ghosts in it and the 'wild adventurous freedom' of her youth and living in Helston had gone with the furniture.




pmath wrote:
This is another very interesting passage:

A stealthy, creeping, cranching sound among the crisp fallen leaves of the forest, beyond the garden, seemed almost close at hand. Margaret knew it was some poacher. Sitting up in her bed-room this past autumn, with the light of her candle extinguished, and purely revelling in the solemn beauty of the heavens and the earth, she had many a time seen the light noiseless leap of the poachers over the garden-fence, their quick tramp across the dewy moonlit lawn, their disappearance in the black still shadow beyond. The wild adventurous freedom of their life had taken her fancy; she felt inclined to wish them success; she had no fear of them. But to-night she was afraid, she knew not why.
Why do you think Margaret was afraid? What, or who, was she afraid of?

Message Edited by pmath on 01-08-200710:16 AM




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Chapter VII: Bargaining with John

Liz, which edition of North and South are your page numbers from? I found some of your quotes in Chapter VII, using the electronic text I linked earlier:

'He is a tall, broad-shouldered man, about--how old, papa?'

'I should guess about thirty.'

'About thirty--with a face that is neither exactly plain, nor yet handsome, nothing remarkable--not quite a gentleman; but that was hardly to be expected.'

'Not vulgar, or common though,' put in her father, rather jealous of any disparagement of the sole friend he had in Milton.

'Oh no!' said Margaret. 'With such an expression of resolution and power, no face, however plain in feature, could be either vulgar or common. I should not like to have to bargain with him; he looks very inflexible. Altogether a man who seems made for his niche, mamma; sagacious, and strong, as becomes a great tradesman.'
Do you hope she'll have to bargain with John after reading this? I do!

LizzieAnn wrote:
Mr. Hale takes to Mr. Thornton right away, while Margaret does not.
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Chapter VI: Alliteration

I just noticed the alliteration. Yes, it's spooky!


Choisya wrote:
The house is empty; it is as if they are ghosts in it and the 'wild adventurous freedom' of her youth and living in Helston had gone with the furniture.

pmath wrote:
This is another very interesting passage:

A stealthy, creeping, cranching sound among the crisp fallen leaves of the forest, beyond the garden, seemed almost close at hand. ...


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Re: Chapter VII: Bargaining with John

I have the Penguin Classics edition. Would it be easier if I gave the chapter & page number in future posts?

Definitely - the conflict between Margaret & John would be something. I think they would both learn from each other - Margaret probably learning more.



pmath wrote:
Liz, which edition of North and South are your page numbers from? I found some of your quotes in Chapter VII, using the electronic text I linked earlier:

'He is a tall, broad-shouldered man, about--how old, papa?'

'I should guess about thirty.'

'About thirty--with a face that is neither exactly plain, nor yet handsome, nothing remarkable--not quite a gentleman; but that was hardly to be expected.'

'Not vulgar, or common though,' put in her father, rather jealous of any disparagement of the sole friend he had in Milton.

'Oh no!' said Margaret. 'With such an expression of resolution and power, no face, however plain in feature, could be either vulgar or common. I should not like to have to bargain with him; he looks very inflexible. Altogether a man who seems made for his niche, mamma; sagacious, and strong, as becomes a great tradesman.'
Do you hope she'll have to bargain with John after reading this? I do!

LizzieAnn wrote:
Mr. Hale takes to Mr. Thornton right away, while Margaret does not.



Liz ♥ ♥


Some books are to be tasted, others to be swallowed, and some few to be chewed and digested. ~ Francis Bacon
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Re: Chapter X: Pink

I also think this passage is saying much. It's showing sensuality and femininity; Thornton's first stirrings of attraction to Margaret are palpable. Since writings at the time were less explicit than we're accustomed to, authors had to find a different way to convey these emotions.



pmath wrote:
I love the passage below: there's a lot going on!

She stood by the tea-table in a light-coloured muslin gown, which had a good deal of pink about it. She looked as if she was not attending to the conversation, but solely busy with the tea-cups, among which her round ivory hands moved with pretty, noiseless, daintiness. She had a bracelet on one taper arm, which would fall down over her round wrist. Mr. Thornton watched the replacing of this troublesome ornament with far more attention than he listened to her father. It seemed as if it fascinated him to see her push it up impatiently, until it tightened her soft flesh; and then to mark the loosening--the fall. He could almost have exclaimed--'There it goes, again!' There was so little left to be done after he arrived at the preparation for tea, that he was almost sorry the obligation of eating and drinking came so soon to prevent his watching Margaret. She handed him his cup of tea with the proud air of an unwilling slave; but her eye caught the moment when he was ready for another cup; and he almost longed to ask her to do for him what he saw her compelled to do for her father, who took her little finger and thumb in his masculine hand, and made them serve as sugar-tongs.



Liz ♥ ♥


Some books are to be tasted, others to be swallowed, and some few to be chewed and digested. ~ Francis Bacon
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Re: Chapter VI: Margaret's Fear

I agree that it's a fear of the unknown. The same way that a stranger (the poacher) has intruded into her environment - she will also be a stranger intruding into the new environment of Milton. She is going from "being at home" to "living in Milton." The poacher is representative of her fears, anxieties, and being an outsider.



Choisya wrote:
I think her peace of mind has been disturbed by the thought of having to move and she is now fearful of what is to come. The house is empty; it is as if they are ghosts in it and the 'wild adventurous freedom' of her youth and living in Helston had gone with the furniture.




pmath wrote:
This is another very interesting passage:

A stealthy, creeping, cranching sound among the crisp fallen leaves of the forest, beyond the garden, seemed almost close at hand. Margaret knew it was some poacher. Sitting up in her bed-room this past autumn, with the light of her candle extinguished, and purely revelling in the solemn beauty of the heavens and the earth, she had many a time seen the light noiseless leap of the poachers over the garden-fence, their quick tramp across the dewy moonlit lawn, their disappearance in the black still shadow beyond. The wild adventurous freedom of their life had taken her fancy; she felt inclined to wish them success; she had no fear of them. But to-night she was afraid, she knew not why.
Why do you think Margaret was afraid? What, or who, was she afraid of?

Message Edited by pmath on 01-08-200710:16 AM







Liz ♥ ♥


Some books are to be tasted, others to be swallowed, and some few to be chewed and digested. ~ Francis Bacon
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Empty post

[ Edited ]
Moved post to appropriate section.

Message Edited by LizzieAnn on 01-08-200712:17 PM

Liz ♥ ♥


Some books are to be tasted, others to be swallowed, and some few to be chewed and digested. ~ Francis Bacon
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Re: Chapter X: Pink

I agree Lizzie-Ann - it is a very 'sexy' passage - her 'pink muslin dress' (suggesting nudity?), 'round ivory hands', her father 'took her little finger and thumb in his masculine hand, and made them serve as sugar-tongs'. Very evocative.




LizzieAnn wrote:
I also think this passage is saying much. It's showing sensuality and femininity; Thornton's first stirrings of attraction to Margaret are palpable. Since writings at the time were less explicit than we're accustomed to, authors had to find a different way to convey these emotions.



pmath wrote:
I love the passage below: there's a lot going on!

She stood by the tea-table in a light-coloured muslin gown, which had a good deal of pink about it. She looked as if she was not attending to the conversation, but solely busy with the tea-cups, among which her round ivory hands moved with pretty, noiseless, daintiness. She had a bracelet on one taper arm, which would fall down over her round wrist. Mr. Thornton watched the replacing of this troublesome ornament with far more attention than he listened to her father. It seemed as if it fascinated him to see her push it up impatiently, until it tightened her soft flesh; and then to mark the loosening--the fall. He could almost have exclaimed--'There it goes, again!' There was so little left to be done after he arrived at the preparation for tea, that he was almost sorry the obligation of eating and drinking came so soon to prevent his watching Margaret. She handed him his cup of tea with the proud air of an unwilling slave; but her eye caught the moment when he was ready for another cup; and he almost longed to ask her to do for him what he saw her compelled to do for her father, who took her little finger and thumb in his masculine hand, and made them serve as sugar-tongs.






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Re: BBC Video Clips of N&S - different episodes

I thought folks might like to see some of the video clips of the recent BBC production of North & South:-

http://www.bbc.co.uk/drama/northandsouth/episode1.shtml
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Re: BBC Video Clips of N&S - different episodes

Thanks for the clips Choisya. They were interesting to watch, even though I don't recall the beating scene, and there's the addition of the Great Exhibition scene. Also, reading the synopsis of the episodes, it seems a little different than the book. As often happens, liberties are taken with most books adapted to the screen in the name of creative license.
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Some books are to be tasted, others to be swallowed, and some few to be chewed and digested. ~ Francis Bacon
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chadadanielleKR
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Re: BBC Video Clips of N&S - different episodes

How interesting! Although I would make the same remarks as Lizzie-Ann: few changes in the story seem to have been made.
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Re: Chapter X: Pink

hey Philo,
the paragraph you quoted would make me want to read the whole book!Thanks.
-----
just this:
quote:smileyfrustrated:he handed him his cup of tea with the proud air of an unwilling slave; but her eye caught the moment when he was ready for another cup;...
-----
ah....I really wonder how she looked at that moment...proud air of an unwilling slave...can't imagine!But these English tea sessions always get to me...what an incredible psychosocial happening they are!

Glad to see you here!
keep up the good work :-)
ziki
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happy gang here

Aw shucks, girls, you have some fun here! There's no way I can fit this book in now but I sure wish I could.

ziki
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why Gaskell?

Why is Gaskell important? What is her main strength as a writer? What would be missing in the litterature if she didn't occupy her spot in history?

ziki
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LizzieAnn
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Re: happy gang here

We're sorry that you can't join us. It would have been fun. :smileyhappy:



ziki wrote:
Aw shucks, girls, you have some fun here! There's no way I can fit this book in now but I sure wish I could.

ziki


Liz ♥ ♥


Some books are to be tasted, others to be swallowed, and some few to be chewed and digested. ~ Francis Bacon
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