New Group Ideas

[wickedwitchlady]

Would anyone be interested in doing a group on Ulysses by James Joyce? Or what about The Canterbury Tales? Or even a themed group such as one that looks at different portrayls of King Arthur in literature, or covers the Brontes as a group?

[historybuff234]

I think that those would sound good. I think that we should have a Jules Verne group, or at least one that deals with his novels and their impact on inventors. Or maybe have own on Oscar Wilde, perhaps his plays or The Picture of Dorian Gray. More ideas later.

[katknit]

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wickedwitchlady wrote:
Would anyone be interested in doing a group on Ulysses by James Joyce? Or what about The Canterbury Tales? Or even a themed group such as one that looks at different portrayls of King Arthur in literature, or covers the Brontes as a group?

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Brontes or an Arthurian theme would be fun. There are also a number of books out about the Robin Hood Legends.

[Wildflower]

All of these ideas sound great. And so does the Tale of Two Cities idea someone mentioned in another thread. I think I would be most up for an Arthurian theme, although I've only read The Once and Future King. How many other books would we be talking about?

[Laurel]

Wildflower, we will probably be reading Tennyson's Idylls of the King (about King Arthur) in December in my group (the group that is reading Paradise Lost right now). You can join us there if you like. Laurel

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Wildflower wrote:
All of these ideas sound great. And so does the Tale of Two Cities idea someone mentioned in another thread. I think I would be most up for an Arthurian theme, although I've only read The Once and Future King. How many other books would we be talking about?

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[Wildflower]

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Laurel wrote:
Wildflower, we will probably be reading Tennyson's Idylls of the King (about King Arthur) in December in my group (the group that is reading Paradise Lost right now). You can join us there if you like. Laurel

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Wildflower wrote:
All of these ideas sound great. And so does the Tale of Two Cities idea someone mentioned in another thread. I think I would be most up for an Arthurian theme, although I've only read The Once and Future King. How many other books would we be talking about?

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Thanks for the heads up Laurel. That sounds great!!

Sue

[wickedwitchlady]

I don't know, it depends if they did it over one month or two-- and on how much they think the average person can read in that time without being bogged down. One month I'd say probably two and then maybe just some excerpts from other books; two, maybe four? But lenght is a factor, too-- and some of the Arthur books are quite hefty. In fact, it would be great if BN came out with an anthology that combined some Arthur stories, a little bit of the history of it, and maybe even some criticism on it-- a sort of critical Arthurian anthology.

[Wildflower]

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wickedwitchlady wrote:
I don't know, it depends if they did it over one month or two-- and on how much they think the average person can read in that time without being bogged down. One month I'd say probably two and then maybe just some excerpts from other books; two, maybe four? But lenght is a factor, too-- and some of the Arthur books are quite hefty. In fact, it would be great if BN came out with an anthology that combined some Arthur stories, a little bit of the history of it, and maybe even some criticism on it-- a sort of critical Arthurian anthology.

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What an excellent idea!!!

[Laurel]

Here's one that's quite nicely done:

http://search.barnesandnoble.com/booksearch/isbnInquiry.asp?z=y&EAN=9780815315117&itm=1

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Wildflower wrote:

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wickedwitchlady wrote:
I don't know, it depends if they did it over one month or two-- and on how much they think the average person can read in that time without being bogged down. One month I'd say probably two and then maybe just some excerpts from other books; two, maybe four? But lenght is a factor, too-- and some of the Arthur books are quite hefty. In fact, it would be great if BN came out with an anthology that combined some Arthur stories, a little bit of the history of it, and maybe even some criticism on it-- a sort of critical Arthurian anthology.

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What an excellent idea!!!

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[wickedwitchlady]

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Laurel wrote:
Here's one that's quite nicely done:

http://search.barnesandnoble.com/booksearch/isbnInquiry.asp?z=y&EAN=9780815315117&itm=1

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Wildflower wrote:

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wickedwitchlady wrote:
I don't know, it depends if they did it over one month or two-- and on how much they think the average person can read in that time without being bogged down. One month I'd say probably two and then maybe just some excerpts from other books; two, maybe four? But lenght is a factor, too-- and some of the Arthur books are quite hefty. In fact, it would be great if BN came out with an anthology that combined some Arthur stories, a little bit of the history of it, and maybe even some criticism on it-- a sort of critical Arthurian anthology.

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What an excellent idea!!!

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Thanks for finding that one, Laurel-- and you're right, it is very nicely done. It raises another question, too, though-- if such a group did happen, would we want to focus specifically on Arthur, or on the Arthurian tradition in general? If we want Arthur alone then we need to stick with Tennyson, excerpts from Monmouth, the
Mabinogi(on), and Malory; however, if we want the Arhurian tradition (Arthur, Tristan and Iseult, and all of the other knights and lovely damosels) then you found our book-- and one with an excellent price tag for what it is. What does every one think?

[Melissa_W Moderator]

Now watch, there's going to be a virtual arm-wrestling match to see who gets the used copies listed on BN.com

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wickedwitchlady wrote:

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Laurel wrote:
Here's one that's quite nicely done:

http://search.barnesandnoble.com/booksearch/isbnInquiry.asp?z=y&EAN=9780815315117&itm=1

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Wildflower wrote:

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wickedwitchlady wrote:
I don't know, it depends if they did it over one month or two-- and on how much they think the average person can read in that time without being bogged down. One month I'd say probably two and then maybe just some excerpts from other books; two, maybe four? But lenght is a factor, too-- and some of the Arthur books are quite hefty. In fact, it would be great if BN came out with an anthology that combined some Arthur stories, a little bit of the history of it, and maybe even some criticism on it-- a sort of critical Arthurian anthology.

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What an excellent idea!!!

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Thanks for finding that one, Laurel-- and you're right, it is very nicely done. It raises another question, too, though-- if such a group did happen, would we want to focus specifically on Arthur, or on the Arthurian tradition in general? If we want Arthur alone then we need to stick with Tennyson, excerpts from Monmouth, the
Mabinogi(on), and Malory; however, if we want the Arhurian tradition (Arthur, Tristan and Iseult, and all of the other knights and lovely damosels) then you found our book-- and one with an excellent price tag for what it is. What does every one think?

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[historybuff234]

Hey Laurel, haven't talked to you in a while. I have been at a swim meet almost all day, I am so tired. Anyaway, I think that somewhere we should have a philosophy board. Or even better we could have boards for specific philosopher, like Plato, Aristotle, Maciaveli, Kierkegaard, Nietzche(not sure if I spelled it right), Marx, or others. Although I don't think that specific philosophers would work, still I think that we should have a philosphy board. I wil post more later.

[Laurel]

Hi, HB. I used to love to swim, and I still do water exercises once a week. We tried Plato's Republic in a group I was in once, but it never really got off the ground. I think there would need to be a teacher--someone who really knows the philosophy and how to teach it. Study up, and maybe it will be you.

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historybuff234 wrote:
Hey Laurel, haven't talked to you in a while. I have been at a swim meet almost all day, I am so tired. Anyaway, I think that somewhere we should have a philosophy board. Or even better we could have boards for specific philosopher, like Plato, Aristotle, Maciaveli, Kierkegaard, Nietzche(not sure if I spelled it right), Marx, or others. Although I don't think that specific philosophers would work, still I think that we should have a philosphy board. I wil post more later.

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[ARMYRANGER]

I have an MA in philosophy and 10 years of study in philosophy beyond my MA. I have presented papers at philosophy conferences and have lectured on Ethics at a local community college and will hopefully earn a PhD someday. I am well versed in Plato and would be happy to lead a group on him or any other philosopher I have studied. Regarding Plato, I would recommend starting with the "Apology" and the earlier "Socratic" dialogues, such at the "Euthyphro," "Laches," or "Charmides," in order to get a feel for the Socratic method, working through "elenchus" and resulting in "aporia." Then one should be ready to tackle a "middle dialog" like the "Republic." If we can set up a Plato group I would be happy to supply information, guide the discussion, and answer any questions.

Bob

[Everyman]

I would be happy to discuss Plato and other philosophers with you. I suspect we would be a small group, but size and quality are not synonymous.

Unless the BNBC powers that be are willing to set up a separate board for philosophy (or at least a board for Not Otherwise Classified where any books that don't fit into the existing board scheme could be discussed), you would probably have to just start a new topic in the British Classics -- no, Plato wasn't British, but at least most of us will read him in English, and there's no more appropriate place for him to be discussed.

I agree that probably the Republic would not be the best place to start. I find the Apology rather less interesting to discuss than some of the other dialogues, but it does provide probably the best introduction to him as a person and some of his thinking, and is relatively easy to read. To your list of suggested early readings I would add the Meno, Gorgias, and perhaps Timaeus as dialogues helpful in understanding Plato/Socrates's ideas.

Speaking of the Apology, have you read I.F. Stone's The Trial of Socrates? Fascinating approach to the Apology.

By the way, do you know the new Allen translation of the Republic? In my earlier years reading the Republic I worked with the Shorey and Jowett translations, then later moved over to the Bloom, but I read one or two favorable reviews of the Yale Allen translation. Do you know it? And if so, what do you think of it compared with other translations?

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ARMYRANGER wrote:
I have an MA in philosophy and 10 years of study in philosophy beyond my MA. I have presented papers at philosophy conferences and have lectured on Ethics at a local community college and will hopefully earn a PhD someday. I am well versed in Plato and would be happy to lead a group on him or any other philosopher I have studied. Regarding Plato, I would recommend starting with the "Apology" and the earlier "Socratic" dialogues, such at the "Euthyphro," "Laches," or "Charmides," in order to get a feel for the Socratic method, working through "elenchus" and resulting in "aporia." Then one should be ready to tackle a "middle dialog" like the "Republic." If we can set up a Plato group I would be happy to supply information, guide the discussion, and answer any questions.

Bob

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[KristyR]

Welcome back Everyman!

[Everyman]

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KristyR wrote:
Welcome back Everyman!

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Well,I'm only kind of back, but thanks.

[Wildflower]

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ARMYRANGER wrote:
I have an MA in philosophy and 10 years of study in philosophy beyond my MA. I have presented papers at philosophy conferences and have lectured on Ethics at a local community college and will hopefully earn a PhD someday. I am well versed in Plato and would be happy to lead a group on him or any other philosopher I have studied. Regarding Plato, I would recommend starting with the "Apology" and the earlier "Socratic" dialogues, such at the "Euthyphro," "Laches," or "Charmides," in order to get a feel for the Socratic method, working through "elenchus" and resulting in "aporia." Then one should be ready to tackle a "middle dialog" like the "Republic." If we can set up a Plato group I would be happy to supply information, guide the discussion, and answer any questions.

Bob

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Hi Armyranger,

I have never studied much philosophy before, but I would love to do some reading and also join in these discussions. I think you could have a small but interested group.

[ARMYRANGER]

Hello Everyman and Wildflower, It is great to see that there is still an interest in philosophy in the world. Everyman... I have not read that book on Socrates, but thanks for the suggestion. I will try to get to it in the near future. In grad school I worked with the Desmond Lee translation of the "Republic," which was the Penguin Classics trans at the time. I have also worked with the Jowett translations of all the dialogs, and have recently reread the early Socratic dialogs in the Penguin editions, tranlated by Trevor Saunders, Iain Lane, Donald Watt, and Robin Waterfield. These newer translations are quite good as they seek to convey Plato's ideas in contemporary language, which equates (hopefully) to contemporary concepts seking to define thought in the ancient mind. I am currently reading "Plato's Ethics" by Terence Irwin, which is the definitive study on the topic of Plato's moral philosophy. I have not read Bloom's trans of the "Republic," although I have heard great things about it, especially the introduction. I am always a bit leary of disciples of Leo Strauss, which Bloom (and of course Paul Wolfowitz) are... Not to get off subject but Strauss's students like Bloom often lapse into Strauss's notion of esoteric meaning within the text which I find rather tedious. But back to Plato, your suggestion to read the "Meno" is excellent, as it is one of the most important of all the dialogs for three reasons, (1) The transition from a Socratic to a more Platonic philosophy, (2) Laying the groundwork for Plato's epistemology (especially the nature of enquiry and knowledge) and (3) An attempt to find a solution to the problem of knowledge versus the earlier dialogs which offer no real solutions, but only "aporia"/confusion..... concluding with a negative concept of what the subject under inquiry is NOT. ie. a certain virtue (X). (Courage in the Laches, Temperance in the Charmides, Piety in the Euthyphro) So Def(X)=A; but if A then B, If B then C, but if C then not -A. The only truth established is Def(X)=-A. But the Meno goes beyond the typical Socratic elenchus and seeks real answers. One final thought, I would probably recommend avoiding the "Timaeus" here because Platonic metaphysics can get very confusing. The dialog itself is not that difficult to read, but a true understanding of what Plato is saying can be very difficult to grasp. I will try to get a Plato group started if enough people believe it worth while, and B&N have recently published a collection of Plato's Dialogs, which we could use. Thanks for your interest in philosophy

Bob O'Brien

[ARMYRANGER]

I just sent a message to one of the editors, Bill_T, suggesting the idea for a Plato reading group. I will keep everyone informed on this thread as the possibility develops.

Bob