New Group Ideas

[historybuff234]

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ARMYRANGER wrote:
I just sent a message to one of the editors, Bill_T, suggesting the idea for a Plato reading group. I will keep everyone informed on this thread as the possibility develops.

Bob

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Great, I am reading some of Plato's Dialogues, Republic, and The Prince(Machiaveli) I am really liking all of them. My friends can't figure out why a 13 year-old kid wants to read philosophy, they all keep saying that no gives a care about those philosophers in fact one of them said philosophy is dead. I love philosophy, I think it is so fun reading it and thinking about it. I want to read Thus Spoke Zarathustra this summer, I bet I am the only kid I know that reads and enjoys philosophy. when I get to college I would like to take philosophy. I would join if we had a Plato group.
Hey ARMYRANGER, you have any advice for a 13 year-old about reading philosophy?

The die is cast- Caeser

[ARMYRANGER]

Yes HistoryBluff, I do have some advice, if you really are 13 (I find the volume of your reading and interests based on this and other posts rather unbelievable) then I think you should read less and enjoy being a kid more. Having raised kids myself, and having been a kid myself many years ago, I suggest that 13 year old kids have the rest of their lives to read philosophy. In fact, I don't think a book on philosophy should be read until the early to mid 30s, when life's experiences enriches what you are reading. Philosophy can be learned at any age but not truly appreciated until one approaches middle age. Now, 13 year olds should be playing sports, sleeping over friend's houses, enjoying the beach, going on a first date, listening to music, learning about love and loyalty from their pets, going to the ball game, fishing, cherishing their grandparents, savoring the smell of cut grass, and loving the greatest years of their lives. Forget Plato, Nietzsche, and Machiavelli for now, what good can reading the "Prince" do for a 13 year old besides saying he or she read it. If you really want to do something valuable with your time, put down the "Republic" and volunteer for a few hours at a local Veteran's Home, if there is one nearby. But if you insist on philosophy, read "Sophie's World" to get you started.

Bob

[Everyman]

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ARMYRANGER wrote:
In fact, I don't think a book on philosophy should be read until the early to mid 30s, when life's experiences enriches what you are reading.

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As one who read the Great Books program at St. John's College (Annapolis), I can hardly agree with not reading philosophy until one's 30s, but OTOH I definitely do agree that full understanding doesn't come (if at all) until midlife. So it's necessary to re-read the philosophers many times as one matures -- the lessons one takes from them are quite different at different stages of life.

There is that famous dinner-table discussion topic, what one book would you take with you if you wee to live on a desert island for a year? i always vacillate between the complete works of Shakespeare and the collected dialogues of Plato.

But I do agree with your point that a 13 year old should be spending more time with other young folks than with Plato et. al. There is plenty of time to read the great books; there is only one time to be kid.

[historybuff234]

I think you guys are getting the wrong idea, it's not like I spend all of time reading. In fact I spend most of my free time at swim practice, we swim about 3 miles on an average day. And I have made some of my dearest friends there, even though I see them about avery day my closest is my next-door neighbour. We have known each other for since 2nd grade. I am also going to begin Tae Kwon Do again, I have been taking a break since I got my black belt. Now about philosophy, thank you both ARMYRANGER and Everyman, you both have made me stop and think. But I want to let you guys know that philosophy only makes up a small part of my reading, and I have decided that I want to take philosophy when I get to college and for right now I am going to ease off a bit on the philosophy. I am still going to read it, just not as intensely as before. I am not going to order Thus Spoke Zarathustra in my summer book order. I hope ARMYRANGER if that Plato board gets set up that I will join and you would be alright with that. But one thing that I will never stop reading are the classics. Everyman, I totaly agree with you on being a kid, you only get to do it once. This summer I am going to make it a point to go one of my friends houses and play paint ball with him. I am really going to miss my close friends when I move to Cedar Rapids, Iowa, oh well it will be nice to live in a larger city. I will finish the dialogue I am on and think more about philosophy and I. I think that I will just ease off on it a bit until college. I think that it is the best thing.

I came, I saw, I conquered- Caeser

[Melissa_W Moderator]

It's not all bad, that's where I grew up. I went to Linn-Mar HS (northeast CR/Marion), so I'm pretty partial to that school district but I'm not sure how that plays into your homeschooling. Cedar Rapids really is a great place to live (well, eastern Iowa in general is pretty nice). The CR Symphony and Opera Theatre are first rate and CR is within easy driving distance of three universities (University of Iowa in Iowa City, Iowa State in Ames, and Northern Iowa in Cedar Falls) who all have different cultural events going on. The CR Kernels (baseball) and Roughriders (ice hockey) each have seasons in town. About 30 minutes west of CR is the Amana Colonies (great food). And you can't forget about football, it's a very big sport in the area.

Oh, and there's a Barnes and Noble store in NE Cedar Rapids (just west of Lindale Mall) and a store at the Coral Ridge Mall in Coralville/Iowa City (about 20 minutes south of CR).

[historybuff234]

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ARMYRANGER wrote:
Now, 13 year olds should be playing sports, sleeping over friend's houses, enjoying the beach, going on a first date, listening to music, learning about love and loyalty from their pets, going to the ball game, fishing, cherishing their grandparents, savoring the smell of cut grass, and loving the greatest years of their lives. Forget Plato, Nietzsche, and Machiavelli for now, what good can reading the "Prince" do for a 13 year old besides saying he or she read it. If you really want to do something valuable with your time, put down the "Republic" and volunteer for a few hours at a local Veteran's Home, if there is one nearby. But if you insist on philosophy, read "Sophie's World" to get you started.

Bob

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Well alot of those things I am going to do and have already learned. Except one thing, going on a first date, why? Because me parents say I can't date until I am 16, because that was the age when their parents allowed them on a first date. I really don't agree with it, but I will respect their rules and wait. About the veteran's home, that would be interesting if there was one close. But alot of my great-uncles proudly served during World War II, one of them landed at Normandy and as on the front lines for all of of the war in Europe. Only thing is most fo them don't say anything about their expeiences, it's just that I want to know about what they went threw so I can fully appreciate what they did. Another one was a Marine, he landed at Guadlecanal. Another was at the base in Hawaii for all of the war. ARMYRANGER, another thing I agree with you on are these really are the best years of my life. I am immensely grateful for the advice.

[ARMYRANGER]

You are right Everyman, I was not clear in expressing my thoughts, I think philosophy can be read and appreciated at the college level, and should be read by all young adults. I was clearly gulity of exaggerating the point of how much more rewarding philosophy is as one gets older. I think this point is beautifully shown in David Denby's "Great Books." As to what book to take on a desert island, it would either be Plato's Dialogs, Aquinas's "Summa Theologiae," or "Don Quixote." Even though I am a philosopher at heart, I am leaning toward "Don Quixote."

[ARMYRANGER]

Hi HB234, those other activities sound great, and of course you are welcome to join our Plato discussion, which appears as though it is probably going to happen in June.

[historybuff234]

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ARMYRANGER wrote:
You are right Everyman, I was not clear in expressing my thoughts, I think philosophy can be read and appreciated at the college level, and should be read by all young adults. I was clearly gulity of exaggerating the point of how much more rewarding philosophy is as one gets older. I think this point is beautifully shown in David Denby's "Great Books." As to what book to take on a desert island, it would either be Plato's Dialogs, Aquinas's "Summa Theologiae," or "Don Quixote." Even though I am a philosopher at heart, I am leaning toward "Don Quixote."

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I would like to read Don Quixote this summer. Sounds like a great book. I agree with you on how philosophy should be read by young adults. Reading it has changed the way I look at things, The Prince has really made me look at our world and if I was the president what I would do and things like that. Philosophy is just fun to read in my view, and my favorite one I have read so far has been Plato. But then Machiaveli is good too. Hey ARMYRANGER I have a question for you, what is existentialism(I know I spelled that wrong), all I really know is it was developed by Kierkegaard.

[Everyman]

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ARMYRANGER wrote:
As to what book to take on a desert island, it would either be Plato's Dialogs, Aquinas's "Summa Theologiae," or "Don Quixote."...

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I agree with one part of what you say: it's true, the only way I would ever read the entire Summa is, indeed, if it were the only book I had on a desert island for a year. [g]

I agree that he has valuable things to say, but egad, did he have to say so many things in such excruciating detail?

in my case, rather than Cervantes, I would probably take either Plutarch or Gibbon, both books I have never found time to reread and should.

[historybuff234]

I have a question, when is the Plato group starting up?

[Wildflower]

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historybuff234 wrote:
I have a question, when is the Plato group starting up?

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And if it is going to start soon, what would be the first book(s) we would be discussing?

[ARMYRANGER]

Hi Wildflower,

I sent one of the editors a proposal for two different courses of action, and am waiting for a response. Both month long studies would focus on the earlier (more accessible dialogs). One plan is a thematic approach around the trial and death of Socrates, which would encompass Euthyphro, Apology, Crito, Phaedo... and the other is a non-thematic approach studying 4 dialogs on diverse topics, such as Laches (courage), Lysis(friendship), Charmides(temperance), and Meno(virtue and knowledge). I hope you join us if this gets off the ground.

Bob

[Everyman]

Those sound interesting, but knowing this group, I would suggest that you schedule more than a month for such significant studies.

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ARMYRANGER wrote:
Hi Wildflower,

I sent one of the editors a proposal for two different courses of action, and am waiting for a response. Both month long studies would focus on the earlier (more accessible dialogs). One plan is a thematic approach around the trial and death of Socrates, which would encompass Euthyphro, Apology, Crito, Phaedo... and the other is a non-thematic approach studying 4 dialogs on diverse topics, such as Laches (courage), Lysis(friendship), Charmides(temperance), and Meno(virtue and knowledge). I hope you join us if this gets off the ground.

Bob

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[Wildflower]

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ARMYRANGER wrote:
Hi Wildflower,

I sent one of the editors a proposal for two different courses of action, and am waiting for a response. Both month long studies would focus on the earlier (more accessible dialogs). One plan is a thematic approach around the trial and death of Socrates, which would encompass Euthyphro, Apology, Crito, Phaedo... and the other is a non-thematic approach studying 4 dialogs on diverse topics, such as Laches (courage), Lysis(friendship), Charmides(temperance), and Meno(virtue and knowledge). I hope you join us if this gets off the ground.

Bob

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I'll be there. I don't know how much I will be able to add to the discussion, never having studied much philosophy before. But I have always wanted to and will be eagerly awaiting the beginning.

Sue

[zbegoniac]

I realize this must be way out of date, but I would love a discussion of Ulysses by James Joyce.  I took a seminar on it in graduate school but need to reread for better understanding.

zbegoniac

[maude40]

I would love to discuss Ulysseus here at BN. I've always wanted to read it but haven't had the guts to start. Yvonne

[Everyman]

I feel that way about Proust. Seems that it sort of needs a group to help one keep up the commitment to work through it.

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maude40 wrote:

I would love to discuss Ulysseus here at BN. I've always wanted to read it but haven't had the guts to start. Yvonne

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[Laurel]

There's a new Yahoo group that plans to read Proust's In Search of Lost Time. It's the Isolt Reading Group--just starting.

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Everyman wrote:
I feel that way about Proust. Seems that it sort of needs a group to help one keep up the commitment to work through it.

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maude40 wrote:

I would love to discuss Ulysseus here at BN. I've always wanted to read it but haven't had the guts to start. Yvonne

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[chad]

Well, might I suggest to Historybuff one book only, and philosophy later? In "Moby Dick," by Herman Melville, the men that harpooned whales were no different than the philosophers whom you desire to read....

Chad