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Choisya
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Re: Russian Literature - We need a European Classics Board!

You are a girl after my own heart Laurel!!:smileysurprised: I have just ordered all the Russian DVDs of War and Peace from my DVD Rental Club, having only seen part of them on TV. And yes, Russian Opera - not very often performed but I once shared a regular box at Covent Garden and adored what they did, Boris Godunov being a favourite. I would have loved to have seen that performed at Verona! I will look for the DVD of Prokofiev with Gegham Gregorian. I very much admire your intention to learn Russian - perhaps the world's richest language after English. That is an interesting thought about Turgenev and Gaskell - it is possible, given the timelines.

I am planning a trip on the Trans-Siberian railway from Moscow to Beijing via Vladivostok (or possibly Moscow to Beijing via Mongolia) in 2008 - if my finances permit. It will be my 75th Birthday present to myself:smileyhappy:

I keep saying we need a European Classics board or to turn the British one into a European - after all the UK is part of the European Union:smileyhappy:




Laurel wrote:
"Quiet Flows the Don" is on my short list, Choisya, but I haven't read it yet. My love of Russian literature began in high school when I devoured Dostoyevsky and Tolstoy. Then there was the Orthodox church music--all those low male voices singing a capella! Now I am almost fanatic about Russian opera and thus about Pushkin. I'm learning Russian now. My goal is to read Eugene Onegin in Russian, but I have a long way to go. I have read one half of one page of the Russian Bible, though.

As for Chekhov, I've watched the few plays that the library has on video, and I saw a college production of "The Three Sisters"--that's about it, so far. I've read "War and Peace" four times, though, and have watched all the film versions I can find (the Russian is the best, and now the Russians and the Europeans are doing new films of it) and I have two productions of Prokofiev's opera (the French one is best in this case, though Gegham Gregarian is the perfect Pierre).

Oh, dear; I guess we've wandered away from English literature! We need a European literature board. Perhaps that will follow with Kafka. Ah, here's a tie-in: Turgenev's "Fathers and Sons" (1862) is another favorite of mine; I wonder if Mrs. Gaskell was thinking of it when she wrote "Wives and Daughters" (1866)?
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Laurel
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Re: Russian Literature - We need a European Classics Board!

Oh, my goodness, what a wonderful way to celebrate a 75th birthday! Just be careful--every time I start a novel or short story that begins on a European train, I know that someone is sure to get murdered.

I'd like to keep British lit and have a separate European lit board. The Brits are just too eccentric to be thrown in with all those others! :smileyhappy: :smileyhappy:



Choisya wrote:
You are a girl after my own heart Laurel!!:smileysurprised: I have just ordered all the Russian DVDs of War and Peace from my DVD Rental Club, having only seen part of them on TV. And yes, Russian Opera - not very often performed but I once shared a regular box at Covent Garden and adored what they did, Boris Godunov being a favourite. I would have loved to have seen that performed at Verona! I will look for the DVD of Prokofiev with Gegham Gregorian. I very much admire your intention to learn Russian - perhaps the world's richest language after English. That is an interesting thought about Turgenev and Gaskell - it is possible, given the timelines.

I am planning a trip on the Trans-Siberian railway from Moscow to Beijing via Vladivostok (or possibly Moscow to Beijing via Mongolia) in 2008 - if my finances permit. It will be my 75th Birthday present to myself:smileyhappy:

I keep saying we need a European Classics board or to turn the British one into a European - after all the UK is part of the European Union:smileyhappy:




Laurel wrote:
"Quiet Flows the Don" is on my short list, Choisya, but I haven't read it yet. My love of Russian literature began in high school when I devoured Dostoyevsky and Tolstoy. Then there was the Orthodox church music--all those low male voices singing a capella! Now I am almost fanatic about Russian opera and thus about Pushkin. I'm learning Russian now. My goal is to read Eugene Onegin in Russian, but I have a long way to go. I have read one half of one page of the Russian Bible, though.

As for Chekhov, I've watched the few plays that the library has on video, and I saw a college production of "The Three Sisters"--that's about it, so far. I've read "War and Peace" four times, though, and have watched all the film versions I can find (the Russian is the best, and now the Russians and the Europeans are doing new films of it) and I have two productions of Prokofiev's opera (the French one is best in this case, though Gegham Gregarian is the perfect Pierre).

Oh, dear; I guess we've wandered away from English literature! We need a European literature board. Perhaps that will follow with Kafka. Ah, here's a tie-in: Turgenev's "Fathers and Sons" (1862) is another favorite of mine; I wonder if Mrs. Gaskell was thinking of it when she wrote "Wives and Daughters" (1866)?



"Truth must of necessity be stranger than fiction, for fiction is the creation of the human mind, and therefore is congenial to it." ~~G.K. Chesterton
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Choisya
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Re: Russian Literature - We need a European Classics Board!

[ Edited ]
LOL. Well I aim to die around the age of 76 so being murdered (quickly & cleanly!) on the Trans-Siberian Express - but not before I seen Beijing - would quite suit me!:smileyhappy: (I come from a long lived family on both sides and do not want to emulate my ancestors.)



Laurel wrote:
Oh, my goodness, what a wonderful way to celebrate a 75th birthday! Just be careful--every time I start a novel or short story that begins on a European train, I know that someone is sure to get murdered.

I'd like to keep British lit and have a separate European lit board. The Brits are just too eccentric to be thrown in with all those others! :smileyhappy: :smileyhappy:

Message Edited by Choisya on 12-06-200607:27 PM

Message Edited by Choisya on 12-06-200607:27 PM

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IlanaSimons
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Re: Russian Literature - We need a European Classics Board!

Wow, Choisya. Do you have much of the trip planned out? Do you know where you'll stay, for how long? How do you travel: with fixed or relatively unfixed plans?



Ilana
Check out my book, here and visit my website, here.


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willowy
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Re: Russian Literature - We need a European Classics Board!

Yes I'm quite interested too Choisya! It's a trip I've been trying to take for a long time myself. I would do the Moscow to Mongolia.
-----------Willowy----------
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donyskiw
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Re: Russian Literature - We need a European Classics Board!

That sounds cool. Since I'm also single, I usually travel with outfitters. I write the check, they make the arrangements. It usually is a group trip (although the last one to New Mexico was solo) so I get to meet new people and spend a week or two with them. I'd like to hear your travel plans, too.

Denise
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Choisya
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Re: Russian Literature - We need a European Classics Board!



IlanaSimons wrote:
Wow, Choisya. Do you have much of the trip planned out? Do you know where you'll stay, for how long? How do you travel: with fixed or relatively unfixed plans?





I haven't made any firm plans yet because it depends on what my financial state will be in 2008 but there are quite a few travel firms here who plan such journeys. I plan to go for at least a couple of weeks, longer if I can afford it. However, if I go with a younger (male) friend of mine, a railway enthusiast, I may plan our route independently by using a site such as this one:-

http://www.seat61.com/Trans-Siberian.htm
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Choisya
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Re: (Off topic) Russian Literature - We need a European Classics Board!



donyskiw wrote:
That sounds cool. Since I'm also single, I usually travel with outfitters. I write the check, they make the arrangements. It usually is a group trip (although the last one to New Mexico was solo) so I get to meet new people and spend a week or two with them. I'd like to hear your travel plans, too.

Denise





'Outfitters' Denise?? That is a word we use for tailors:smileyhappy: I usually travel alone and don't like company on my travels. Sometimes I go with a coach travel firm but I 'do my own thing' once I get to a destination. Sometimes I go by rail and plan my own journey via the internet. I love rail journeys in Europe and am also planning one across Canada - Banff to Vancouver, where I have a cyber- friend. I also have a fancy to do the Trans-Alpine train journey in New Zealand, where I have another cyber-friend. It alll depends on finances though, which have not been too good this year:smileysad:
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Re: Russian Literature - We need a European Classics Board!

[ Edited ]
Hey - no talking like that! You can't go anywhere until we've made it to the UK to visit you (and the rate I'm going, you might need to live to about 150! :smileytongue:)



Choisya wrote:
LOL. Well I aim to die around the age of 76 so being murdered (quickly & cleanly!) on the Trans-Siberian Express - but not before I seen Beijing - would quite suit me!:smileyhappy: (I come from a long lived family on both sides and do not want to emulate my ancestors.)



Laurel wrote:
Oh, my goodness, what a wonderful way to celebrate a 75th birthday! Just be careful--every time I start a novel or short story that begins on a European train, I know that someone is sure to get murdered.

I'd like to keep British lit and have a separate European lit board. The Brits are just too eccentric to be thrown in with all those others! :smileyhappy: :smileyhappy:

Message Edited by Choisya on 12-06-200607:27 PM

Message Edited by Choisya on 12-06-200607:27 PM



Message Edited by pedsphleb on 12-07-200607:41 PM

Melissa W.
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donyskiw
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Re: (Off topic) Russian Literature - We need a European Classics Board!

Outfitters are sort of travel agents but they tend to have their own companies with guides and they lean more toward adventure travel or specialized types of travel like safaris or expeditions, stuff like hiking, biking, mountaineering, etc. I do a lot of hiking vacations. I went on a trekking vacation in Nepal in 2002 that was planned by an outfitter. It was not the kind of trip I would plan myself and something I wouldn't try to do alone. It was nice having a group to go with. This group ended up being all women even though it wasn't planned that way. There was a Sherpa staff and a Sherpa guide to take care of the trip needs and animals called zopkyos (yaks crossed with cows) to carry our gear. It was a wonderful trip.

Denise
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Choisya
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Re: (Off topic) Russian Literature - We need a European Classics Board!

[ Edited ]
How Americans murder our poor language:smileyhappy::smileyhappy: We have that sort of 'outfit' over here but they have normal names like Outdoor this or Safari that:smileyhappy: When I was young I did a lot of hiking, climbing, caving etc in the UK but with friends, as such groups were not around then. A trip to Nepal such as you describe, sounds wonderful but my age and health now militate against it:smileysad:




donyskiw wrote:
Outfitters are sort of travel agents but they tend to have their own companies with guides and they lean more toward adventure travel or specialized types of travel like safaris or expeditions, stuff like hiking, biking, mountaineering, etc. I do a lot of hiking vacations. I went on a trekking vacation in Nepal in 2002 that was planned by an outfitter. It was not the kind of trip I would plan myself and something I wouldn't try to do alone. It was nice having a group to go with. This group ended up being all women even though it wasn't planned that way. There was a Sherpa staff and a Sherpa guide to take care of the trip needs and animals called zopkyos (yaks crossed with cows) to carry our gear. It was a wonderful trip.

Denise

Message Edited by Choisya on 12-08-200604:11 PM

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Choisya in Mongolia



Choisya wrote:I am planning a trip on the Trans-Siberian railway from Moscow to Beijing via Vladivostok (or possibly Moscow to Beijing via Mongolia) in 2008 - if my finances permit. It will be my 75th Birthday present to myself:smileyhappy:
--------
Absolutely splendid. Will you send me a postcard from Ulanbator?
I always wondered how it would be to live there.

ziki
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willowy
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Re: Choisya in Mongolia

If you are sending postcards from Mongolia send me one too!
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Re: Choisya in Mongolia



willowy wrote:
If you are sending postcards from Mongolia send me one too!




well then, it's unanimous. Choisya must post us something, here, from her trip.



Ilana
Check out my book, here and visit my website, here.


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Choisya
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Re: Choisya in Mongolia

LOL I've got to get there first:smileyhappy: Here is a nice website with Mongolian music. One of the things I hope to do is to break my journey in Mongolia to stay in a Ger Camp in a Yurt, as pictured here.

http://www.mongolia.co.uk/group_train_2007.htm

Ulaanbaatar looks a bit bleak Ziki, although as it is on the border of Russia and China the cultural mix will be interesting:-

http://www.legendtour.ru/eng/mongolia/r2214.shtml

There is a beautiful film about Mongolia on DVD:-

http://www.nationalgeographic.com/weepingcamel/






IlanaSimons wrote:


willowy wrote:
If you are sending postcards from Mongolia send me one too!




well then, it's unanimous. Choisya must post us something, here, from her trip.


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Everyman
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Re: a quickie response!



IlanaSimons wrote:...yes yes modernism itself is dead, and these authors can often look romantic to us now.



I have to confess, Ilana (and yes, I agree with Laurel -- what a beautiful name!) that although I have dipped from time to time into the literary isms, they seem to me much like the educational theorization that I am more familiar with -- fads that come and go with cadres of supporters pushing first this theory, then that theory, but principally talking to a small, self-selected group without much concern for connectiveness with the non-professional reader or the "real world." After a stroll into the thickets of modernism, post-modernism, feminism, post-feminism, Marxism, structuralism, post-structuralism, and dozens of other isms (the Penguin Dictioinary of Literary Terms and Literary Theory is nearly 1,000 pages long, longer than the Concise Oxford Dictionary; I love the Penguin's comment on post-modernism: "It is no easier to define than many other -isms. Like them, it is amorphous by nature") I breathe a sigh of relief when I return to re-read Quiller-Couch's wonderful, literate, and highly accessible lectures and writings. He makes me feel as though maybe I really can be a successful reader, which few modern critical writers do.
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Everyman
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Re: (Off topic) Russian Literature - We need a European Classics Board!



Choisya wrote:
How Americans murder our poor language:smileyhappy::smileyhappy: /blockquote>


It's payback for what the English did to West Germanic.
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Laurel
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Re: a quickie response!

I'm with Everyman on the Isms. I'm more interested in the literature than in the theories. I think it's fascinating, though, to think about the fact that people can approach things in so many different ways. I have read about Romanticism, though, for years, and just when I think I might have a handle on what it is the handle dissolves and I drop the pot with a bang. So I'll probably just go on reading books and listening to music and viewing art that have been labeled Romantic and thoroughly enjoying myself in the process.



Everyman wrote:


IlanaSimons wrote:...yes yes modernism itself is dead, and these authors can often look romantic to us now.



I have to confess, Ilana (and yes, I agree with Laurel -- what a beautiful name!) that although I have dipped from time to time into the literary isms, they seem to me much like the educational theorization that I am more familiar with -- fads that come and go with cadres of supporters pushing first this theory, then that theory, but principally talking to a small, self-selected group without much concern for connectiveness with the non-professional reader or the "real world." After a stroll into the thickets of modernism, post-modernism, feminism, post-feminism, Marxism, structuralism, post-structuralism, and dozens of other isms (the Penguin Dictioinary of Literary Terms and Literary Theory is nearly 1,000 pages long, longer than the Concise Oxford Dictionary; I love the Penguin's comment on post-modernism: "It is no easier to define than many other -isms. Like them, it is amorphous by nature") I breathe a sigh of relief when I return to re-read Quiller-Couch's wonderful, literate, and highly accessible lectures and writings. He makes me feel as though maybe I really can be a successful reader, which few modern critical writers do.


"Truth must of necessity be stranger than fiction, for fiction is the creation of the human mind, and therefore is congenial to it." ~~G.K. Chesterton
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Everyman
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Re: a quickie response!

I have read about Romanticism, though, for years, and just when I think I might have a handle on what it is the handle dissolves and I drop the pot with a bang.

If you need reassurance, read Quiller-Couch's lecture "On the Terms 'Classical' and 'Romantic'" in his Studies in Literature, Volume 1. He says, in part, "we cannot draw any [clear] line between 'classical' and 'romantic' work; since, to begin with, the difference between them is notional and vague (even if we admit a true difference, which at this oint I do not)." And later in the lecture "Now this method of considering literature as the product not of successive men of genius and talent, but of abstract 'influences' and 'tendencies' divisible in periods and capable of being studied in compartments, has various vices, mostly consequent upon its being untrue."

My hero!

Another book on critical theory that I really like is C.S. Lewis's An Experiment in Criticism. He i sconcerned less with trying to analyze the books themselves and more concerned with analyzing the way educated readers approach a book. I don't agree with all of it, but it's a nice discussion, and quite brief -- under 150 pages.
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Choisya
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Re: a quickie response!



Laurel wrote:
I'm with Everyman on the Isms. I'm more interested in the literature than in the theories. I think it's fascinating, though, to think about the fact that people can approach things in so many different ways. I have read about Romanticism, though, for years, and just when I think I might have a handle on what it is the handle dissolves and I drop the pot with a bang. So I'll probably just go on reading books and listening to music and viewing art that have been labeled Romantic and thoroughly enjoying myself in the process.





The Literary Critic J H Newman would agree with you. He believed that such definitions were best left to the artists. If a writer/musician declared his work to be 'classical' or 'romantic' so be it, although in the case of a performed work of art (a play, a piece of music) the artist's definition could be changed by the director and/or a performer.

Riemann's (Musical) Dictionary defines classical as 'a term applied to a work of art against which the destroying hand of time has proved powerless'.

It is generally accepted that the Romantic era in both literature and music ushered in a more subjective approach to the arts, as opposed to the objectivity and rationalism of the Classical period which went before. Works written and composed during the Romantic period (from the late 18C) were more likely to be original (not harking back to classical themes), modern, nationalistic and popular. They were also likely to come 'from the soil' and be steeped in the religion and prevailing social institutions of the country in which they were composed. In this sense Romanticism is the antithesis of Classicism.

I hope this helps.
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