Part Two Discussion: Leadership

[Stephanie]

According to Millan, leadership is a far different concept from showing your dog “who’s boss.” In nature, dominance doesn’t mean bullying, it means taking responsibility. What are your thoughts on this difference?

[Pepper-Sugar]

Ceasar is right. It is consistancy, a postive energy that prevails. You can not fly off act irrational scream yell and bully your dog. Who would want to bully thier dog ? Bullying doesn't make trust, it makes fear, you need trust to be a leader. A leader guides, a leader doesn't push from behind.

[Stephanie]

So true! It's so easy to get frustrated though - or even panicked! Yesterday our new dog (got him from our local shelter not long after this book club started) got past a visitor at the front door and took off running. We live on a fairly busy road, so I instantly panicked, and hollered his name. My friend, also a dog person, checked my by saying, "Don't yell at him." I tried to calm down as I snatched up the box of biscuits and ran after him, trying to keep my tone modulated, but all I could think about was him getting hit by a car. I was lucky- he didn't cross the road, he got interested in some shrubbery a few houses down, and I held out my hand and he came right over. Taking NO chances, I scooped him up in my arms and carried him home!

Now I have a question for the group: What do those of you who do not let your pets on the furniture do when you come home to find they've been relaxing on the couch? Can't scold if you don't catch them at it, right? But when there are little white hairs all over the brown leather, you know they've been there!

[Pepper-Sugar]

If dogs had no memory they could not learn. They have to remember what brought on correction in past as not to do it again in future.

I can understand what your saying about panic etc, when you love your dog and right before your eyes the possibilty of the worst that can happen is a threat of course you do what comes natural to protect. I can assure you one thing running after your dog being panicked will only make you have to chase the dog more and hopefully you can catch up to them. You just got your dog so you have not had time to build that communication bond between you yet, a bond you will see that you will be able to read your dog and the dog read you without words. This will happen in time.

In order to protect my dogs and give them the freedom I feel they should have ( I don't believe in tying dogs to runners etc this makes them aggressive in my opinion)I have a invisable fence installed giving them full romp of grounds without them romping into street. ( Conventional fencing is not option here) This invisable fencing runs below front door helping to insure no exitiing out front door into street. They have been trained to fence and to be honest they know boundries so well that when Sugar managed to get Pepper's collar off in play he did not wonder off because in his head he could not go past the now known boundries. Of course did I get sick to my stomach when he came in without his collar ? yes ! I made sure I did not let on something was wrong, I closed patio doors gave each a milkbone, went out retrieved collar and put it back on him.

[Stephanie]

I know that sick feeling well- it's the same as the first time your child drives off in the car alone...

Pepper and Sugar... funny- my childhood next-door neighbors had a beagle named Sugar, and we had a cat named Pepper.

So far this little fellow seems to be trying to fray my nerves! It appears that all of his favorite things to do are potentially hazardous. He drinks out of the fishpond and the swimming pool, he eats lizards, chases snakes, tangles himself up in the vines along the fence - reminds me of when my kids were toddlers. I purposefully chose a two-year-old dog hoping that with a bit of age came some small modicum of wisdom... ah well, silly me.

Message Edited by Stephanie on 10-16-2007 09:22 PM

[Pepper-Sugar]

I got puppies this time around I wanted to start from scratch and guide them into good habits and not have to deal with undoing bad habits of an older dog.

Yes Sugar is white and Pepper is Black , both from same litter. I am so happy I got them both. People thought us nuts getting 2 GSDs at the same time same age from same litter. I just had attitude it will be ok and make sure it is. I have to say I lucked out they have the best demeanor you could ask for.

You sound like you have your hands full. Chasing snakes ?,,, Ugh ! I would freak out dealing with that. Ceasar had his dogs trained to avoid snakes ( I am pretty sure it was him) I think he did it because the trails he takes his pack on has snakes along the way. I can't remember how it was achieved ( I blank out anything to do with snakes) but I am sure there must be some way to find out.

[Pepper-Sugar]

Ohhhhhh I wanted to tell you my name is Kathleen. ; )

[Stephanie]

Kathleen,

This week has been a great one for swimming, so my children have been in the pool almost every day. I've found out that this activity seems to encourage our new little dog to race around maniacally, and fall into the pool. Wet pool deck and speeding dog... a recipe for learning how to swim. He'll swim, but it seems like an awful lot of work for him, and teaching him to swim to the steps is difficult when he is trying to scrabble up the side. Luckily, he only seems to fall into the pool when someone is in it.

Growing up I always had Labradors. Swimmers by nature, their webbed paws make a huge difference in their swimming ability.

[Pepper-Sugar]

I had my trainer here this summer to assist me in getting my Sheperds in pool. Lets put it this way she was on deck I got Pepper in with a lead on guided him around pool and Sugar saw him and jumped in. Tryng to keep them apart , afloat and focused was no easy task. I got Pepper focused on ladder and Sugar focused on me. I had them in several times but they wont go in on thier own unless the other dog is in already. I looked like I was in a cat fight I was scratched all over. I decided I will train the dogs in my own manner one at a time. Not together until they become comfortable in pool and know how to get out. Then I will work on them both being in pool with help from my husband. What a sight that was, two 50 something pound dogs (at the time) one under my arm, one on the lead. I wanted to kill the trainer. I am thankful I am at ease in water and stay calm in emergency situations.

[Stephanie]

Trainer? You paid someone to do this to you?

Seriously, I think your way is a whole lot better. We just have the one little 25 lb dog, and me on the deck and three people in the pool when we're trying to teach him to swim to the steps. I can't imagine two 50+ lb dogs flailing about with just me!

[Pepper-Sugar]

I was born and raised on waterfront so I am comfortable in water. Yes she was paid a one time lifetime fee for the dogs to come here when I need guidance. I agree my way is better. I had Pepper on the lead trying to keep him away from Sugar , she was tucked under my right arm against me. I was guding them both , but it was stressful and I had to keep them apart. I am glad that was a one time experince that will never happen again. One thing that came out of it was the dogs learned to trust me in water. I don't know what the trainer was thinking to be honest. I just think she didn't think Sugar would jump in on her own like that. Lesson learned never assume. My trainer has been really good other than that one experience. She got me straight on track with "passive dominance" etc. I had a handle from the get go with her. I really didn't need her that much other than much I had things under control. She helped me reconize things. She had another trainer come here with her once and that Trainer was amazed at what control I had over my dogs. It is the new experinces, like the swimming, going into car etc that I wanted guidance with. I like hands on in certain things. Pepper stands 31 inches to his shoulder now, so you know I will have them in pool come summer one at a time until they build thier own confidence and are comfortable in water. They have thier own kiddy pools they frolick in I did this to help them become more confident in water and a safer way for them to cool off too when out in summer heat. I get in there with them too splash them and make a game of it to try to get a comfort zone. He will have more bulk come the summer so he will be more bouyant, when he went into pool this summer he was more bone. Bones develope first and then the mass.