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ConnieAnnKirk
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Re: National Park Series


chad wrote:

"I'm wondering about this desire to sculpt Nature to the will of the human being and how it may relate, if at all, to Dracula's thirst for human blood..."

 

Would that we could sculpt Nature so that it would not have a taste for blood....

 

Chad


 

You mean animals, etc. feeding off others' blood?  Humans, for that matter!

~ConnieAnnKirk




[CAK's books , website.]
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chad
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Re: National Park Series

 

"You mean animals, etc. feeding off others' blood?  Humans, for that matter!"

 

Certainly. And Dracula is part of every Halloween...

 

Chad

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DinoBess
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Re: DRACULA by Bram Stoker (spoilers, ok)

My English class was discussing this book a month or so ago, and the book's popularity seems to be the same reason the Gothic style exists. Most people who read such books know the existence of vampires hasn't been proven, and probably never will be. But there's something inside of them that is released when reading Gothic tales, something like an acceptance of the impossible. We love to imagine impossible things can happen, and, heck, we (most of us, anyway) love to be scared. (Why didn't I stop watching Alien and Aliens while I was scared stiff, for example?)

As humans, we long for the unexplained (partially represented through Van Helsing's religiosity, in my eyes) and the terrifying. (A creepy, blood-sucking old guy that can turn into a bat? He could attack anyone!)

Don't we all have books, campfire stories, or movies that curdle our blood, yet we still want to read/hear/see them again?

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

Books help me both leave and see the world.
Author
ConnieAnnKirk
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Re: DRACULA by Bram Stoker (spoilers, ok)


DinoBess wrote:

My English class was discussing this book a month or so ago, and the book's popularity seems to be the same reason the Gothic style exists. Most people who read such books know the existence of vampires hasn't been proven, and probably never will be. But there's something inside of them that is released when reading Gothic tales, something like an acceptance of the impossible. We love to imagine impossible things can happen, and, heck, we (most of us, anyway) love to be scared. (Why didn't I stop watching Alien and Aliens while I was scared stiff, for example?)

As humans, we long for the unexplained (partially represented through Van Helsing's religiosity, in my eyes) and the terrifying. (A creepy, blood-sucking old guy that can turn into a bat? He could attack anyone!)

Don't we all have books, campfire stories, or movies that curdle our blood, yet we still want to read/hear/see them again?


 

Welcome, DinoBess--Thank you for these observations.  It is odd, isn't it, why vampire stories seem to keep coming around.  When they do, it's as if people have forgotten them, or never heard them, and it's like they are new all over again.  Then, hundreds of books, etc. come out about them again, and the cycle starts over.  So strange!

~ConnieAnnKirk




[CAK's books , website.]
Distinguished Bibliophile
TiggerBear
Posts: 9,489
Registered: ‎02-12-2008
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Re: DRACULA by Bram Stoker (spoilers, ok)

 


ConnieK wrote:

DinoBess wrote:

My English class was discussing this book a month or so ago, and the book's popularity seems to be the same reason the Gothic style exists. Most people who read such books know the existence of vampires hasn't been proven, and probably never will be. But there's something inside of them that is released when reading Gothic tales, something like an acceptance of the impossible. We love to imagine impossible things can happen, and, heck, we (most of us, anyway) love to be scared. (Why didn't I stop watching Alien and Aliens while I was scared stiff, for example?)

As humans, we long for the unexplained (partially represented through Van Helsing's religiosity, in my eyes) and the terrifying. (A creepy, blood-sucking old guy that can turn into a bat? He could attack anyone!)

Don't we all have books, campfire stories, or movies that curdle our blood, yet we still want to read/hear/see them again?


 

Welcome, DinoBess--Thank you for these observations.  It is odd, isn't it, why vampire stories seem to keep coming around.  When they do, it's as if people have forgotten them, or never heard them, and it's like they are new all over again.  Then, hundreds of books, etc. come out about them again, and the cycle starts over.  So strange!


 

I've decribed this a wave model. With high and low tides. This new cresting wave though a little different. Cross genre books may just wash away the pier.

 

Inspired Wordsmith
basson_mommy12
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Re: DRACULA by Bram Stoker (spoilers, ok)

I think it goes along with what's going on in society - "Dracula" is released during the Victorian era; a time of sexual supression and constraint.  What are we living in now?  This is a time when books are banned and expressions of sexual love are more offensive than graphic scenes of violence.  What do we see but an explosion of repressed sexual tension novels, or vampire novels.  The premise of which is, if you give in to the passion, you will live forever but it will be a curse worse than death.  Or you will be ravaged beyond recognition and die.  Hhmmm...  The new Grimm Fairytales for teaching girls to keep their knees together.

"The Answer to the Great Question of ... Life, the Universe and Everything ... (is) 42." -- Douglas Adams' "The Hitchhiker's Guide to the Galaxy"

Ruth W.
Grand Rapids, MI
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chad
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Victorian Times and sexual repression

[ Edited ]

I just can't stop from commenting on this book:

 

I just thought I would add, possibly for more commentary, that "Dracula", the novel, was considered to be perhaps more sexually explicit, more shocking or more "modern" than other novels-  but ahead of its time- the Victorian era But the character of Dracula himself was a "materialization" of the past, of dust literally - I'm allergic to dust.....

 

What say you?

Chad

Distinguished Bibliophile
TiggerBear
Posts: 9,489
Registered: ‎02-12-2008

Re: DRACULA by Bram Stoker (spoilers, ok)

 


basson_mommy12 wrote:

I think it goes along with what's going on in society - "Dracula" is released during the Victorian era; a time of sexual supression and constraint.  What are we living in now?  This is a time when books are banned and expressions of sexual love are more offensive than graphic scenes of violence.  What do we see but an explosion of repressed sexual tension novels, or vampire novels.  The premise of which is, if you give in to the passion, you will live forever but it will be a curse worse than death.  Or you will be ravaged beyond recognition and die.  Hhmmm...  The new Grimm Fairytales for teaching girls to keep their knees together.


 

Back in my collage days I wrote a long paper on "The rise in Vampire fiction as it coinsides with STDs".

 

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TiggerBear
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Re: Victorian Times and sexual repression

 


chad wrote:

I just can't stop from commenting on this book:

 

I just thought I would add, possibly for more commentary, that "Dracula", the novel, was considered to be perhaps more sexually explicit, more shocking or more "modern" than other novels-  but ahead of its time- the Victorian era But the character of Dracula himself was a "materialization" of the past, of dust literally - I'm allergic to dust.....

 

What say you?

Chad


 

Well I'd say that

 

Carmilla - J. Sheridan Le Fanu

is much more explicit and shockingly modern.

 

Not to mention Stoker was a little late to the party. Way long ago I listed in publishing years a list of Vampire classics, see here

Classic Monster Primer

 

I'll float it over in paranormal in case the link doesn't work.

Inspired Wordsmith
basson_mommy12
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Registered: ‎05-27-2008
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Re: DRACULA by Bram Stoker (spoilers, ok)

 


TiggerBear wrote:

 



 

Back in my collage days I wrote a long paper on "The rise in Vampire fiction as it coinsides with STDs".

 


 

Awesome, TB!  I'm sure you don't want to share, but it sounds fascinating.

 

"The Answer to the Great Question of ... Life, the Universe and Everything ... (is) 42." -- Douglas Adams' "The Hitchhiker's Guide to the Galaxy"

Ruth W.
Grand Rapids, MI
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chad
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Re: DRACULA by Bram Stoker (spoilers, ok)

Is your paper published?:smileyvery-happy:

 

The B&N edition comments on the sexuality in the novel and I think the B&N guest commentator may have also viewed the novel as somewhat "progressive"- I'm not sure how progressive vis-a-vis other Victorian novels, however. The theme of "time", specifically whether we are actually moving forwards or backwards in time, is a popular theme of 19th century novels and the origin of our universe still remains a mystery.....

 

Chad

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JoWe
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Registered: ‎11-20-2009
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Re: Victorian Times and sexual repression

I have to agree with you on this one... Dracula was a little behind. As you stated Camilla was indeed much more explicit. However, I think Chad has a point here. There is a contrast throughout Dracula... new vs. old especially with women... The New Woman that emerged in the late 1800s which would put Dracula right in line with this emergence of women breaking through their gender role. So what does this say about Stoker... hmmm... I would have to say he felt a little threatened. The major contrast between Mina and Lucy. Obviously we could interpret Lucy as the New Woman--open with her sexuality. She questions her role..."Why can't they let a girl marry three men?". However, Mina represents propriety and everything women were supposed to be. So I guess we can say that if women aggressively pursue that which has belonged to men it threatens the very foundation of what represents men. As Lucy transitions into a sex-crazed female she threatens men's self-control, therefore Lucy should die. It makes perfect sense right?

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TiggerBear
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Re: DRACULA by Bram Stoker (spoilers, ok)

 


chad wrote:

Is your paper published?:smileyvery-happy:

 

The B&N edition comments on the sexuality in the novel and I think the B&N guest commentator may have also viewed the novel as somewhat "progressive"- I'm not sure how progressive vis-a-vis other Victorian novels, however. The theme of "time", specifically whether we are actually moving forwards or backwards in time, is a popular theme of 19th century novels and the origin of our universe still remains a mystery.....

 

Chad


 

 

No, sorry. Was told to turn it into a thesis; but then got married, changed majors, changed collages, states, ect... (life got in the way, as it does).

 

Vis-a-vis it was riding the barrel in the wave within Victorian times. Not at the front, or the crest, but just slightly after the crest.

 

Remember it was meant as a play by a guy always working in theaters but not yet a playwright. It was the best thing he could do to sell it, if he followed the current fashion.

 

 

 

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TiggerBear
Posts: 9,489
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Re: Victorian Times and sexual repression

 


JoWe wrote:

I have to agree with you on this one... Dracula was a little behind. As you stated Camilla was indeed much more explicit. However, I think Chad has a point here. There is a contrast throughout Dracula... new vs. old especially with women... The New Woman that emerged in the late 1800s which would put Dracula right in line with this emergence of women breaking through their gender role. So what does this say about Stoker... hmmm... I would have to say he felt a little threatened. The major contrast between Mina and Lucy. Obviously we could interpret Lucy as the New Woman--open with her sexuality. She questions her role..."Why can't they let a girl marry three men?". However, Mina represents propriety and everything women were supposed to be. So I guess we can say that if women aggressively pursue that which has belonged to men it threatens the very foundation of what represents men. As Lucy transitions into a sex-crazed female she threatens men's self-control, therefore Lucy should die. It makes perfect sense right?


 

I'd say it made him the adverage middle class man in his times. Not a far reaching artist.

 

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JoWe
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Re: Victorian Times and sexual repression

I completely agree since he made Lucy the real "bad" person in this story. Dracula, of course, being the man claims at the end he just wants to live, be a part of that world (I am assuming one where women are like Mina). Oh what women do to men... it's rather sad how acceptable men's lack of self-control really is. You put it nicely, it really isn't the work of "a far reaching artist", just a man!

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ConnieAnnKirk
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Re: DRACULA by Bram Stoker (spoilers, ok)


TiggerBear wrote:

 

Back in my collage days I wrote a long paper on "The rise in Vampire fiction as it coinsides with STDs".

 


Not trying to date you (or "date" you!), Tigger, but how long ago was that?  I'm curious.

~ConnieAnnKirk




[CAK's books , website.]
Author
ConnieAnnKirk
Posts: 5,472
Registered: ‎06-14-2007
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Re: Victorian Times and sexual repression


JoWe wrote:

I have to agree with you on this one... Dracula was a little behind. As you stated Camilla was indeed much more explicit. However, I think Chad has a point here. There is a contrast throughout Dracula... new vs. old especially with women... The New Woman that emerged in the late 1800s which would put Dracula right in line with this emergence of women breaking through their gender role. So what does this say about Stoker... hmmm... I would have to say he felt a little threatened. The major contrast between Mina and Lucy. Obviously we could interpret Lucy as the New Woman--open with her sexuality. She questions her role..."Why can't they let a girl marry three men?". However, Mina represents propriety and everything women were supposed to be. So I guess we can say that if women aggressively pursue that which has belonged to men it threatens the very foundation of what represents men. As Lucy transitions into a sex-crazed female she threatens men's self-control, therefore Lucy should die. It makes perfect sense right?


 

Has anyone taken up the new "sequel" to DRACULA, written by a descendant of Stoker's?  I'm wondering how it might fare in light of the issues JoWe points out.

 

Dracula 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

~ConnieAnnKirk




[CAK's books , website.]
Distinguished Bibliophile
TiggerBear
Posts: 9,489
Registered: ‎02-12-2008
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Re: Victorian Times and sexual repression

 


ConnieK wrote:

JoWe wrote:

I have to agree with you on this one... Dracula was a little behind. As you stated Camilla was indeed much more explicit. However, I think Chad has a point here. There is a contrast throughout Dracula... new vs. old especially with women... The New Woman that emerged in the late 1800s which would put Dracula right in line with this emergence of women breaking through their gender role. So what does this say about Stoker... hmmm... I would have to say he felt a little threatened. The major contrast between Mina and Lucy. Obviously we could interpret Lucy as the New Woman--open with her sexuality. She questions her role..."Why can't they let a girl marry three men?". However, Mina represents propriety and everything women were supposed to be. So I guess we can say that if women aggressively pursue that which has belonged to men it threatens the very foundation of what represents men. As Lucy transitions into a sex-crazed female she threatens men's self-control, therefore Lucy should die. It makes perfect sense right?


 

Has anyone taken up the new "sequel" to DRACULA, written by a descendant of Stoker's?  I'm wondering how it might fare in light of the issues JoWe points out.

 

Dracula 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 


 

It in my TBR pile, but haven't gotten to it yet.

 

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TiggerBear
Posts: 9,489
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Re: DRACULA by Bram Stoker (spoilers, ok)

 


ConnieK wrote:

TiggerBear wrote:

 

Back in my collage days I wrote a long paper on "The rise in Vampire fiction as it coinsides with STDs".

 


Not trying to date you (or "date" you!), Tigger, but how long ago was that?  I'm curious.


 

(chuckle) Late 90tys.

 

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chad
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Dracula is still popular

Just a couple of points:

 

The concept of the "modern woman" was emerging but what is the concept's true origins?

 

-and-

 

Stoker may have used sexual overtones to sell, but I think he writes ethically. Everything seems to incorporate into his themes of time, the earth's revolution around the sun, or more specifically: the dark and light sides of our planet....even some sexual practices and sex, itself, can be considered by some as dark or preverted, while other sex practices and sexualities are acceptable....

 

Best to everyone in the future of "Dracula"....I'm busy trying to find another novel to read...

Chad