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ConnieAnnKirk
Posts: 5,472
Registered: ‎06-14-2007
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Re: Thoreau's work

[ Edited ]

tsuntzuer wrote:

well ConnieK, I did my search I got both English and spanish Tom Sawyer´s vertions, there are things that I'd like to coment about next thing to compleating my re-reading, I don t promess anything but I´ll try to tell you some things I've discoverded about Twain. (fascinating! And as far as Thoreau I´m still negotiating Civil Disobedience  last detalis in Spanish, I found at Wordreference.com a slang for huckleberry and that is "fool" , and that is the reason why I begun with this sort of maybe annoying questions of mine, now, nobody has answered something about that dictionay, that I think its very good, unless this one does not have your quality standars, may I say so? I will try Walden now. .

is Wordreference.com a good dictionary? by the way I only have Webster's free on line dictionary,and  I even got an  Appleton's turn of the 20th century dictionary (1908) and as always pardon my english. guess i need to very very very much improve my semantics and syntax don't I?

hey I visit your page, didn't know I was speaking to somebody that prepared, and makes me a little much nervouss. Thank you for everything God bless what about a reference to wordrefrence.com? god bless


 

Thanks for your comments about my webpage, Jose!  Yes; I've been reading and writing and teaching for many years--sometimes, I think, too many--ha!  :smileywink:  There's not one single reason for you to be nervous, though.  Ask away, and all the members of the Classics Book Club here at BN.com, I'm sure, will help when and as we can.

 

I wish I could give you a good answer about your question on wordreference.com.  Unfortunately, I'm not familiar with it.  I think you make a good point about considering word usage from the 19th century when reading books from that era, though.  There are often different meanings, and these older meanings can affect word play in works of literature.  I know this, for example, from my scholarly work with the American poet, Emily Dickinson.  In her case, for example, we (scholars) often try to look words up in the 1828 Webster American English Dictionary, since we know she had a bit later edition of that reference book in her library and used it often.  Her poems are full of word play.

 

I think older Webster dictionaries would be good references for use in a scholarly reading of Thoreau and Twain both (though these would not be translated into Spanish, I presume, but maybe), but I'm not aware of them being available online.  There used to be an 1828 edition online, but I think it's been removed.  I have a reprint book available in my library.  It might be a bit early for your use, though, since you're looking at more mid to late 1800s.

 

I wish I could advise you better!  Are you mostly translating for your own reading/use/entertainment or are you doing scholarly research?

 

 

~ConnieAnnKirk




[CAK's books , website.]
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chad
Posts: 1,476
Registered: ‎10-25-2006
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Re: Thoreau's work

[ Edited ]

And I just thought I would add:

 

There are no dictionaries of "improper" English. The dictionaries will incorporate "slang", however, but I don't think slang encompasses everything that might be improper, or perhaps modern. They cannot encompass every usage known to a particular language. In any event, a dictionary will not tell me everything about syntax- why Twain wrote, in part, I believe.

 

 

Chad

 

ps- **bleep** may be in the dictionary, but it cannot be used here....

 

 

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tsuntzuer
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Re: Thoreau's work

dEAR ConnieK, FOR ME THERE IS NOT A SUCH THING AS AN EARLY BOOK USAGE,  -MAY I SAY SO? THOUGH RIGHT NOW ITS ONLY A HOBBIE TO ME, I GUESS THIS IS WHAT I'D LIKE TO DO MOST THESE DAYS, ANY BOOK NO MATTER HOW DIFFICULT COULD IT BE TO READ IT TO MOST OF US( EVEN IN OUR OWN LANGUAGE AND IM SOLELY INCLUDING MY SELF ALONE) IF THERE IS A SPARK OF UNDERSTANDING OF ANY IDEA, I TRY TO RECONSTRUCT ITS MEANNING IN ENGLISH FIRST, THAT IS THE DIFFICULT PART, BECAUSE OF THE DIFFICULT MULTICOLORED MEANING OF WORDS AND PHRASES, AND THEN COMES  SPANISH, FOR THAT I GOT MY WORDS.  FOR INSTANCE I´VE TRANSLATED AYN RAND'S ANTHEM. TO ME ITS A VERY BEAUTIFUL WORK OF RAND, TO WHOM I DIDN'T KNOW UNTIL I READ ABOUT NEAL PEART´S AYN RAND INFLUENCE , BECAUSE I'M A LONG LONG LONG TIME RUSH LISTENER.  WELL I DID NOT GAVE TO HER MY INTERPRETATION BUT WHAT I THINK WAS THE RIGHT USE OF WORDS SHE INTENDED TO GIVE TO READERS. IT REMINDS ME A LOT OF THOREAU AT JAIL IN CONCORD. NOW, IN ORDER TO NOT TO GIVE YOU A WRONG IMPRESION OF ME; FOR ME,  TALKING, READING & WRITING AS WE ARE NOW, IS NOT THE SAME THING AS TRANSLATING WHEN I'M INTO IT. IT TAKES TIME TO ME.  SO DONT WORRY I DONT TRANSLATE LIKE I WRITE HERE.  BUT FOR ME THE PROCESS IS LIKE ENTERING THE AUTHOR'S MIND. THAT´S MY PLEASURE. MOSTLY BECAUSE THESE TWO BOOKS ARE TO ME, TWO MASTERPIECE OF UNIVERSAL LITERATURE.  I MEAN, I M NOT TRYING TO BE PRESUMPTUOUS, AND I HOPE IM NOT LOOKING THAT WAY TO YOU, ONE COULD EASILY GIVE THAT IMPRESSION.

 

THIS ACTIVITY OF MINE IS NOT A SCHOLARLY RESEARCH, ITS ONLY A PERSONAL, CULTURAL AND ENTERTAINMENT MOTIVE. IT IS A WORK OF MINE FOR MY KIDS. THE ARE 12 AND 10 Y.O. SO WHEN THE ARE OLD ENOUGH THEY WIL READ. ITS LIKE A GIFT FOR THEM.  MY GRANDMOTHER WAS A WRITER, SO I GUESS I GOT A THING ABOUT A CERTAIN WAY WITH WORDS IN MY LANGUAGE,-- THAT IS, BUT ALL OF THIS IS BECAUSE --EVEN AS WE TALK RIGHT NOW--, IS BECAUSE OF MY KIDS.  I GOT WALDEN WAITING FOR ME. AND ATLAS SHRUGGED TOO. SOME WORK! I GUESS NOBODY IS GOING TO GIVE ME NIHIL OBSTAT, BECAUSE IT ONLY FUN TO ME. I I DON NEED IT ANY WAY.

 

YOU KNOW I'VE  ASKED THE PRICE OF ATLAS SHRUGGED HERE IN MEXICO, ABOUT 35 DOLLARS, BUT IT IS NOT AVAILABLE, I READ THAT IT IS THE SECOND MOST INFLUENTIAL BOOK IN THE USA IN THE EIGHTIES THIS AS A RESULT OF A RESEARCH OF THE LIBRARY OF CONGRESS , IS IT TRUE?  I GUESS IT WOULD BE RARE TO FIND IT HERE, NOT TO MANY EDITIONS  I GUESS. THOUGH MAYBE IT IS A CORRECTLY TRANSLATED SPANISH EDITION. IT IS SAID THAT RAND'S WORK HAS BEEN BADLY TRANSLATED INTO SPANISH, AND MAYBE BECUASE OF ONLY LOOKING A SINGLE EDITION THEY CRITIZED, I GOT THE AUDIO FROM PROJECT GUTENBERG, MAYBE I WIL DO MY WORK THERE TOO. OH TOO MANY WORDS! THANK YOU FOR YOUR TIME CONNIEK. GOD BLESS.  

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tsuntzuer
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Registered: ‎11-25-2009
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Re: Thoreau's work

That is very useful to me, Chad. Thank you very much. I did not intend to offend any body, and will be more cautious with my use of your native language. God bless

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chad
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Re: Thoreau's work

No offense taken.... My native language? Should be Indian if I'm not mistaken. But there are different dialects of English and differences in dialects of English spoken in the United States and the United Kingdom. I don't want to get the last word in....so good luck and thanks once again for bringing this thread to attention....:smileysurprised:

 

Chad

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ConnieAnnKirk
Posts: 5,472
Registered: ‎06-14-2007
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Re: Thoreau's work

[ Edited ]

tsuntzuer wrote:

dEAR ConnieK, FOR ME THERE IS NOT A SUCH THING AS AN EARLY BOOK USAGE,  -MAY I SAY SO? THOUGH RIGHT NOW ITS ONLY A HOBBIE TO ME, I GUESS THIS IS WHAT I'D LIKE TO DO MOST THESE DAYS, ANY BOOK NO MATTER HOW DIFFICULT COULD IT BE TO READ IT TO MOST OF US( EVEN IN OUR OWN LANGUAGE AND IM SOLELY INCLUDING MY SELF ALONE) IF THERE IS A SPARK OF UNDERSTANDING OF ANY IDEA, I TRY TO RECONSTRUCT ITS MEANNING IN ENGLISH FIRST, THAT IS THE DIFFICULT PART, BECAUSE OF THE DIFFICULT MULTICOLORED MEANING OF WORDS AND PHRASES, AND THEN COMES  SPANISH, FOR THAT I GOT MY WORDS.  FOR INSTANCE I´VE TRANSLATED AYN RAND'S ANTHEM. TO ME ITS A VERY BEAUTIFUL WORK OF RAND, TO WHOM I DIDN'T KNOW UNTIL I READ ABOUT NEAL PEART´S AYN RAND INFLUENCE , BECAUSE I'M A LONG LONG LONG TIME RUSH LISTENER.  WELL I DID NOT GAVE TO HER MY INTERPRETATION BUT WHAT I THINK WAS THE RIGHT USE OF WORDS SHE INTENDED TO GIVE TO READERS. IT REMINDS ME A LOT OF THOREAU AT JAIL IN CONCORD. NOW, IN ORDER TO NOT TO GIVE YOU A WRONG IMPRESION OF ME; FOR ME,  TALKING, READING & WRITING AS WE ARE NOW, IS NOT THE SAME THING AS TRANSLATING WHEN I'M INTO IT. IT TAKES TIME TO ME.  SO DONT WORRY I DONT TRANSLATE LIKE I WRITE HERE.  BUT FOR ME THE PROCESS IS LIKE ENTERING THE AUTHOR'S MIND. THAT´S MY PLEASURE. MOSTLY BECAUSE THESE TWO BOOKS ARE TO ME, TWO MASTERPIECE OF UNIVERSAL LITERATURE.  I MEAN, I M NOT TRYING TO BE PRESUMPTUOUS, AND I HOPE IM NOT LOOKING THAT WAY TO YOU, ONE COULD EASILY GIVE THAT IMPRESSION.

 

THIS ACTIVITY OF MINE IS NOT A SCHOLARLY RESEARCH, ITS ONLY A PERSONAL, CULTURAL AND ENTERTAINMENT MOTIVE. IT IS A WORK OF MINE FOR MY KIDS. THE ARE 12 AND 10 Y.O. SO WHEN THE ARE OLD ENOUGH THEY WIL READ. ITS LIKE A GIFT FOR THEM.  MY GRANDMOTHER WAS A WRITER, SO I GUESS I GOT A THING ABOUT A CERTAIN WAY WITH WORDS IN MY LANGUAGE,-- THAT IS, BUT ALL OF THIS IS BECAUSE --EVEN AS WE TALK RIGHT NOW--, IS BECAUSE OF MY KIDS.  I GOT WALDEN WAITING FOR ME. AND ATLAS SHRUGGED TOO. SOME WORK! I GUESS NOBODY IS GOING TO GIVE ME NIHIL OBSTAT, BECAUSE IT ONLY FUN TO ME. I I DON NEED IT ANY WAY.

 

YOU KNOW I'VE  ASKED THE PRICE OF ATLAS SHRUGGED HERE IN MEXICO, ABOUT 35 DOLLARS, BUT IT IS NOT AVAILABLE, I READ THAT IT IS THE SECOND MOST INFLUENTIAL BOOK IN THE USA IN THE EIGHTIES THIS AS A RESULT OF A RESEARCH OF THE LIBRARY OF CONGRESS , IS IT TRUE?  I GUESS IT WOULD BE RARE TO FIND IT HERE, NOT TO MANY EDITIONS  I GUESS. THOUGH MAYBE IT IS A CORRECTLY TRANSLATED SPANISH EDITION. IT IS SAID THAT RAND'S WORK HAS BEEN BADLY TRANSLATED INTO SPANISH, AND MAYBE BECUASE OF ONLY LOOKING A SINGLE EDITION THEY CRITIZED, I GOT THE AUDIO FROM PROJECT GUTENBERG, MAYBE I WIL DO MY WORK THERE TOO. OH TOO MANY WORDS! THANK YOU FOR YOUR TIME CONNIEK. GOD BLESS.  


Hi, Jose--I think it's wonderful that you're translating works into Spanish as a gift to your children!  How lovely!  I'm not familiar with the book you mention from the 80s.  Maybe someone else here knows it.

 

I also just want to let you know that it is our convention here on the book club to avoid posting messages in ALL CAPS, since that looks online like someone is SHOUTING, and it is rather difficult to read. It is understandable when someone does it, but please use upper and lower case for our eyes next time, as you were doing before.

 

Good luck with your wonderful hobby, Jose!  Your children are lucky.  I do know what you mean about translation being like getting into the writer's mind, in a way.  You have a very different view and appreciation for the author's words.  Lovely!

 

All best,

 

~ConnieAnnKirk




[CAK's books , website.]
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tsuntzuer
Posts: 12
Registered: ‎11-25-2009
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Re: Thoreau's work

No Chad, Oh my god! I´m referring to your inborn language, asi in idiom, your language, american english that is...  never an offense given and nothing to do with a supposed indigenous language,  I mean, mine is Spanish, Mexican Spanish because I live en Mexico, and not other dialect or anything like it.  and for me there was no intention to bring along that subject. But I hope I'm not in trouble. I'll try not to say more. any way you all helped me a lot and I'm very grateful for your kindness.:smileyhappy: