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carusmm
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Re: Journey to the Iliad: encryption


chad wrote:

That language is, in part, something that humans were not meant to understand (i.e. encryption codes) is significant, I think. But we need more information, as always, and about codes no less....

 

Chad


Honour is a code, Chad, which is not meant to be broken.  The tree that doesn't bend, breaks.  It is fine being straight and upstanding in times of peace but in times of war, there is a need for secrets.  I would tell a lie for my country.  I would live a lie for my country.  Mine is not to reason why, mine is to do and die.  And that as I see it is the truth.

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chad
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Re: Journey to the Iliad: encryption


carusmm wrote:

chad wrote:

That language is, in part, something that humans were not meant to understand (i.e. encryption codes) is significant, I think. But we need more information, as always, and about codes no less....

 

Chad


Honour is a code, Chad, which is not meant to be broken.  The tree that doesn't bend, breaks.  It is fine being straight and upstanding in times of peace but in times of war, there is a need for secrets.  I would tell a lie for my country.  I would live a lie for my country.  Mine is not to reason why, mine is to do and die.  And that as I see it is the truth.


Well, that's honor in a world where we do not readily share information or technology with others, or we purposely encrypt information in secret codes- it's what Homer writes about, in part- what "The Iliad " is about also, I think.

 

But. the letters in the word, "honor", originally may have been used for encryption. The letters certainly were used as codes later in history in "the enigma machine" created by the Germans in WWII to encrypt military information, for example. Or, do you ever like doing the cryptograms in newspapers sometimes? I don't find as many these days in my newspapers here.....I like doing them though:smileywink:

 

 

Chad

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carusmm
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Re: Journey to the Iliad: encryption

Encryption is like magic, it expresses a will.

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carusmm
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Re: Journey to the Iliad: encryption


carusmm wrote:

Encryption is like magic, it expresses a will.


"The lie is a condition of life."

Friedrich Nietzsche

 

I hope that I am not confusing things, Chad.

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chad
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Re: Journey to the Iliad: encryption


carusmm wrote:

carusmm wrote:

Encryption is like magic, it expresses a will.


"The lie is a condition of life."

Friedrich Nietzsche

 

I hope that I am not confusing things, Chad.


Well, not really. If we continue with "The Journey to the Center of the Earth" for example, the truth is simply a volcano. Nietzsche was one of many philosophers who wrote about truth and lies. Again, an eruption of thought and then the thought fows and forms a layer of ash and/or rock and then an another eruption takes place and so on. I have the beginning of philosophy and science in Germany along with the rise of the Prussian army and Otto Von Bismarck, "Realpolitik"- anyway, you get the picture.....

 

Chad 

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carusmm
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Re: Journey to the Iliad: encryption


chad wrote:

carusmm wrote:

carusmm wrote:

Encryption is like magic, it expresses a will.


"The lie is a condition of life."

Friedrich Nietzsche

 

I hope that I am not confusing things, Chad.


Well, not really. If we continue with "The Journey to the Center of the Earth" for example, the truth is simply a volcano. Nietzsche was one of many philosophers who wrote about truth and lies. Again, an eruption of thought and then the thought fows and forms a layer of ash and/or rock and then an another eruption takes place and so on. I have the beginning of philosophy and science in Germany along with the rise of the Prussian army and Otto Von Bismarck, "Realpolitik"- anyway, you get the picture.....

 

Chad 


What is truth? an iron necessity is neither iron nor necessary, this is what we learn from Nietzsche.  The only thing necessary for victory is freedom.  As I see it, Chad, man can never be God.

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chad
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Re: Journey to the Iliad: encryption

[ Edited ]

carusmm wrote:

chad wrote:

carusmm wrote:

carusmm wrote:

Encryption is like magic, it expresses a will.


"The lie is a condition of life."

Friedrich Nietzsche

 

I hope that I am not confusing things, Chad.


Well, not really. If we continue with "The Journey to the Center of the Earth" for example, the truth is simply a volcano. Nietzsche was one of many philosophers who wrote about truth and lies. Again, an eruption of thought and then the thought fows and forms a layer of ash and/or rock and then an another eruption takes place and so on. I have the beginning of philosophy and science in Germany along with the rise of the Prussian army and Otto Von Bismarck, "Realpolitik"- anyway, you get the picture.....

 

Chad 


What is truth? an iron necessity is neither iron nor necessary, this is what we learn from Nietzsche.  The only thing necessary for victory is freedom.  As I see it, Chad, man can never be God.



Well, people study "political science" now. But its as if philosophy led to a more scientific approach to politics. Again, science may be both improving and limiting our understanding of politics. I think science usually leaves "the spirit" out and philosophy will sometimes cite the spirit as a political force. And religion is usually about spirit... 

 

"Realpolitik" might be the first attempt to understand political reality or political forces, however. I don't think enlightenment was Otto's primary reason for advocating "Realpolitik."

 

On the Iliad:

 

They say that Thucydides History of the Pelopennesian War was one of the first factual accounts of history, rather than the Iliad- full of gods, metaphors, and so on....but significant nonetheless, as to what Homer decides to codify vs. the oral versions....The Iliad vis-a-vis The Aeneid also interesting, as I mentioned....

 

Chad

PS- "The Iliad" is about spiritual forces which are significant political forces in the story, whether you believe in the Gods or don't believe And, as I mentioned, the poet appeals to the muses to begin a tale which people believe to contaon historical facts. And so you might wonder when did the very first fact begin? Was the first fact a muse or a spirit?

  

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carusmm
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Re: Journey to the Iliad: encryption

Lucretius appealed to Venus before he began his book, it matters not.

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chad
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Re: Journey to the Iliad: encryption

 

 


carusmm wrote:

Lucretius appealed to Venus before he began his book, it matters not.



Well, it kind of does. "Epicureanism" was another eruption in Rome, but something I see as generally antagonistic to the Gods. But religion, at that time, was still around in the form of many gods and goddesses, but perhaps it was too unfocused. How about that ban of Ovid from Rome? It was if a balance between Epicureanism and the Gods was difficult to achieve.

 

Chad

 

Chad  

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carusmm
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Re: Journey to the Iliad: encryption


chad wrote:

 

 


carusmm wrote:

Lucretius appealed to Venus before he began his book, it matters not.



Well, it kind of does. "Epicureanism" was another eruption in Rome, but something I see as generally antagonistic to the Gods. But religion, at that time, was still around in the form of many gods and goddesses, but perhaps it was too unfocused. How about that ban of Ovid from Rome? It was if a balance between Epicureanism and the Gods was difficult to achieve.

 

Chad

 

Chad  


The reason for conflict is oneness, not difference.

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chad
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Re: Journey to the Iliad: encryption


carusmm wrote:

chad wrote:

 

 


carusmm wrote:

Lucretius appealed to Venus before he began his book, it matters not.



Well, it kind of does. "Epicureanism" was another eruption in Rome, but something I see as generally antagonistic to the Gods. But religion, at that time, was still around in the form of many gods and goddesses, but perhaps it was too unfocused. How about that ban of Ovid from Rome? It was if a balance between Epicureanism and the Gods was difficult to achieve.

 

Chad

 

Chad  


The reason for conflict is oneness, not difference.


Well, I'm not sure what you're saying- conflict often occurs when we need both uniformity and dichotomy. In the U.S. for example, we say, "E Pluribus Unum"- Out of Many, One. We need Uniformity, in the form of a federal government, but we also have diversity, in the form of many States. And believe me, they are in a constant squabble.....The problem is now, I'm not sure the U.S. is so much a state/federal conflict any more, so much as it is a government/business conflict- if it is that. That is, once we hit the "gilded age", we were finished. We were overtaken by big business- but that's one argument. But some people may cite other places in ouur history where we may have gone wrong, if we ever did... how about your history in Aus?

 

Chad

 

 

 


 

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Spirit

"Well, people study "political science" now. But its as if philosophy led to a more scientific approach to politics. Again, science may be both improving and limiting our understanding of politics. I think science usually leaves "the spirit" out and philosophy will sometimes cite the spirit as a political force. And religion is usually about spirit... "

 

 


 

"The Iliad" usually contains the word "spirit", although what exactly the "spirit" is, is vague. But we usually view spirit as something distinct from "body." Science attempts to explain spirit in various ways. Immunological response to a disease or a wound might be the best scientific approximation or explanation of "spirit" that we have, but immunological response alone doesn't seem to adequately explain it. And inexplicable and miraculous recoveries exist-   in these cases doctors sometimes attribute the recovery to the "spirit" of the patient without adequately defining it.

 

So, is "spirit" something quantifiable or explainable by science? And were our Greek and Roman ancestors more responsive, attentive or influenced by "spirit?" Or was "spirit" somethiing the Greek culture was losing around the time of Homer and the writing of the Iliad? As I mentioned, science seems to be thought which gradually separated from spiritual thought- that is "spirituality" and science are often antagonistic to each other and the spirit was considered as more of an influential force in early philosophies and religions.

 

 

Chad 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

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chad
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Spirit and entitlement

[ Edited ]

Society places constraints on what we feel we're "entitled to." Nature obviously places constraints on the same feelings of entitlement. So, if I left civilization to live a more primitive lifestyle, then I might be constrained by predators, weather, etc. in the jungle. An interesting read is the "Heart of Darkness" where Kurtz found "more" in the jungle than he did in "civilized" society.

 

"The Iliad" is another interesting story that deals with the same topic in a different way. King Agamemnon, plans to take back what they he thinks he's entitled to, namely Helen. And I think his feeling is more legitimate when he is backed by an entire armies and civilizations, as he is in "the Iliad." But either backed by an army or alone, is Agamemnon necessarily entitled to Helen, in my opinion.

 

But if you don't want to read either one of these books, you can take a gander at the latest "Pirates of The Caribbean: -the movies are enormously popular and the lvery atest movie also very good by the way.

 

And in general, the whole US. is one big argument over entitlement- just join your local union....

 

 

Chad

 

PS- I've heard that people are told feelings of entitlement are sometimes considered to be part of a mental health problem- maybe, but not necessarily. As I mentioned, we live in an economy that has limits. That is, we attempt to define an "economy."" But it's always a bit of "money grab" for anything that lives within a defined economy:smileywink:

 

 

 

 

 

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DaxMTucker
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Re: Spirit and entitlement

If you enjoy epic poems check out the one I just published, "The Leaf Catcher," written in the style of Dante's Divine Comedy. The story is about a father who will be tested in one of the most tragic tales ever told as he tries to teach his son about the true virtues of life. See if you can accept and accomplish the personal challenge within its pages ....

 

The Leaf Catcher  

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chad
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Re: Spirit and entitlement


DaxMTucker wrote:

If you enjoy epic poems check out the one I just published, "The Leaf Catcher," written in the style of Dante's Divine Comedy. The story is about a father who will be tested in one of the most tragic tales ever told as he tries to teach his son about the true virtues of life. See if you can accept and accomplish the personal challenge within its pages ....

 

The Leaf Catcher  


Thanks for the recommendation! It's interesting that you mention a father/son relationship or struggle becuase I also have a father-son relationship in a new novel I am writing- some of which appears in the creative writing section...But most of my story has to go into the finished manuscript that I will send to the publisher, so it won't spoil the story:smileywink:- i also have a couple sequels planned if all goes well....

 

Chad

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DaxMTucker
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Re: Spirit and entitlement

Awesome, let me know when it comes out! Is it written in prose or epic poem style? My book is also part of a trilogy, somewhat like Dante's Divine Comedy had the Inferno, pergatory and paradise. This first book is set in the past, the next will be in the near future and the third will be in the distant future, and all of which will explore and describe the human mind, body and soul.

 

The Leaf Catcher  

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chad
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Re: Spirit and entitlement

[ Edited ]

DaxMTucker wrote:

Awesome, let me know when it comes out! Is it written in prose or epic poem style? My book is also part of a trilogy, somewhat like Dante's Divine Comedy had the Inferno, pergatory and paradise. This first book is set in the past, the next will be in the near future and the third will be in the distant future, and all of which will explore and describe the human mind, body and soul.

 

The Leaf Catcher  


 

It's prosaic- but it's sci-fi, more or less, in classic story-telling form- each novel becomes a little more wild and sci-fi.  But "time" is certainly a subject of the novel, or the trilogy, as the case may be.... 

 

chad

 

ps- I'll pick up a copy after I finish the first manuscript- I'm kind of swamped right now with reading and writing- "The Iliad" included- I include some Ancient Greek culture and literature in my story- college "fraternities" are still popular. I also include Poseidon and his trident, and so forth...

 

 

 

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DaxMTucker
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Re: Spirit and entitlement

[ Edited ]

Us epic poetry writers need to stick together! I really look forward to hearing your thoughts on the book, its message and its philosophy.

 

The Leaf Catcher  

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Sleeves_Rolled_Up
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Re: Spirit and entitlement


DaxMTucker wrote:

Us epic poetry writers need to stick together! I really look forward to hearing your thoughts on the book, its message and its philosophy.

 

The Leaf Catcher  


The Leaf Catcher sounds like an interesting read. And I'm enjoying the discussion of the Iliad on this thread. I studied the text for my Master's thesis and it remains one of my favourite pieces of Ancient Greek literature. As a matter of fact I recently published a novel that sets the Greek gods in the modern world, and the Iliad was the main inspiration for their interactions with each other and with humans:

The Cambridge List  

The Cambridge List: a wickedly funny novel of gods, sex and death.
http://www.the-cambridge-list.blogspot.com
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DaxMTucker
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Re: Spirit and entitlement

Thanks, your book sounds very interesting as well, I will check it out.

 

The Leaf Catcher