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chad
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"The Iliad" by Homer

[ Edited ]

"Sing, O Goddess, the ruinous wrath of Achilles,

Son of Peleus, the terrible curse that brought

Unumbered woes upon the Achaeans and hurled

To Hades so many heroic souls, leaving

Their bodies the prey of dogs and carrion birds.

The will of Zeus was done from the moment they quarreled,

Agamemnon, son of Atreus, and godlike Achilles. (p. 1 B&N edition)

 

Ghosts often remind me of the Gods- forces which influence but are seldom seen. And in the first line of "The Illiad", the poet calls upon the immortal muse for memory and inspiration. 

 

But are the Gods "ways of life", or "roads", as in Anthony Trollope's, "The Way We Live Now?". Are they layers of knowledge, or inventions, as in Jules Verne's, "Journey to the Center of the Earth?" Or they simply walls, or objects, as in Emily Bronte's, "Wuthering Heights?"  Perhaps the poet calls upon the muse because she embodies all three of the writer's perspectves.

 

Join me shortly for the classic story about gods, goddesses, Greeks, Trojans, and a large horse artfully wheeled into the walls of Troy in Homer's, "The Iliad!"

 

Chad

 

 

 

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carusmm
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Re: "The Iliad" by Homer


chad wrote:

"Sing, O Goddess, the ruinous wrath of Achilles,

Son of Peleus, the terrible curse that brought

Unumbered woes upon the Achaeans and hurled

To Hades so many heroic souls, leaving

Their bodies the prey of dogs and carrion birds.

The will of Zeus was done from the moment they quarreled,

Agamemnon, son of Atreus, and godlike Achilles. (p. 1 B&N edition)

 

Ghosts often remind me of the Gods- forces which influence but are seldom seen. And in the first line of "The Illiad", the poet calls upon the immortal muse for memory and inspiration. 

 

But are the Gods "ways of life", or "roads", as in Anthony Trollope's, "The Way We Live Now?". Are they layers of knowledge, or inventions, as in Jules Verne's, "Journey to the Center of the Earth?" Or they simply walls, or objects, as in Emily Bronte's, "Wuthering Heights?"  Perhaps the poet calls upon the muse because she embodies all three of the writer's perspectves.

 

Join me shortly for the classic story about gods, goddesses, Greeks, Trojans, and a large horse artfully wheeled into the walls of Troy in Homer's, "The Iliad!"

 

Chad

 

 

 


What are the gods? is indeed an interesting question.  I would say that the gods sport with us.  Odysseus was not good sport, for he was no fool.

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chad
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Re: "The Iliad" by Homer


carusmm wrote:

chad wrote:

"Sing, O Goddess, the ruinous wrath of Achilles,

Son of Peleus, the terrible curse that brought

Unumbered woes upon the Achaeans and hurled

To Hades so many heroic souls, leaving

Their bodies the prey of dogs and carrion birds.

The will of Zeus was done from the moment they quarreled,

Agamemnon, son of Atreus, and godlike Achilles. (p. 1 B&N edition)

 

Ghosts often remind me of the Gods- forces which influence but are seldom seen. And in the first line of "The Illiad", the poet calls upon the immortal muse for memory and inspiration. 

 

But are the Gods "ways of life", or "roads", as in Anthony Trollope's, "The Way We Live Now?". Are they layers of knowledge, or inventions, as in Jules Verne's, "Journey to the Center of the Earth?" Or they simply walls, or objects, as in Emily Bronte's, "Wuthering Heights?"  Perhaps the poet calls upon the muse because she embodies all three of the writer's perspectves.

 

Join me shortly for the classic story about gods, goddesses, Greeks, Trojans, and a large horse artfully wheeled into the walls of Troy in Homer's, "The Iliad!"

 

Chad

 

 

 


What are the gods? is indeed an interesting question.  I would say that the gods sport with us.  Odysseus was not good sport, for he was no fool.


Well, I think some of the characters in "The Odyssey" sometimes felt like Odysseus was a fool. Or sometimes the Gods helped Odysseus not make a fool of himself....but he definitely pulled through in the end

 

Chad

 

PS- I don't know if you read "The Way We Live Now", but religions are often "ways of life"

or considered to be "ways of life."

 

 

 

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carusmm
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Re: "The Iliad" by Homer


chad wrote:

carusmm wrote:

chad wrote:

"Sing, O Goddess, the ruinous wrath of Achilles,

Son of Peleus, the terrible curse that brought

Unumbered woes upon the Achaeans and hurled

To Hades so many heroic souls, leaving

Their bodies the prey of dogs and carrion birds.

The will of Zeus was done from the moment they quarreled,

Agamemnon, son of Atreus, and godlike Achilles. (p. 1 B&N edition)

 

Ghosts often remind me of the Gods- forces which influence but are seldom seen. And in the first line of "The Illiad", the poet calls upon the immortal muse for memory and inspiration. 

 

But are the Gods "ways of life", or "roads", as in Anthony Trollope's, "The Way We Live Now?". Are they layers of knowledge, or inventions, as in Jules Verne's, "Journey to the Center of the Earth?" Or they simply walls, or objects, as in Emily Bronte's, "Wuthering Heights?"  Perhaps the poet calls upon the muse because she embodies all three of the writer's perspectves.

 

Join me shortly for the classic story about gods, goddesses, Greeks, Trojans, and a large horse artfully wheeled into the walls of Troy in Homer's, "The Iliad!"

 

Chad

 

 

 


What are the gods? is indeed an interesting question.  I would say that the gods sport with us.  Odysseus was not good sport, for he was no fool.


Well, I think some of the characters in "The Odyssey" sometimes felt like Odysseus was a fool. Or sometimes the Gods helped Odysseus not make a fool of himself....but he definitely pulled through in the end

 

Chad

 

PS- I don't know if you read "The Way We Live Now", but religions are often "ways of life"

or considered to be "ways of life."

 

 

 


Odysseus was a man alone, his greatness was to be a sane voice in a crazy world.

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chad
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Re: "The Iliad" by Homer

"Odysseus was a man alone, his greatness was to be a sane voice in a crazy world."

 

Do you think it's a crazy world? I know that "The Odyssey" is kind of crazy journey with monsters and things.

 

Chad

 

 

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carusmm
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Re: "The Iliad" by Homer


chad wrote:

"Odysseus was a man alone, his greatness was to be a sane voice in a crazy world."

 

Do you think it's a crazy world? I know that "The Odyssey" is kind of crazy journey with monsters and things.

 

Chad

 

 


The trick is to keep your head while everyone else is losing theirs.  Kipling said as much or similar.  The art of war is crazy in its own way because I think that it is sane to be driven crazy by war.

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chad
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Re: "The Iliad" by Homer

"The trick is to keep your head while everyone else is losing theirs.  Kipling said as much or similar.  The art of war is crazy in its own way because I think that it is sane to be driven crazy by war."

 

I'd like to do "The Art of War" by Sun Tzu sometime. You should read "The Red Badge of Courage" by Stephen Crane. We classify types of warfare and ordnance has become more modern. War is often a completely different reallty than peace. Is a soldier sometimes who we are though? I look at ants invade my home, every so often, and sometimes I have to think so.

 

Chad

 

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carusmm
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Re: "The Iliad" by Homer

I have read The Art of War by Sun Tzu.  It is mainly about the massing and velocity of forces on the battlefield with a little extra political thought.

 

I have not read The Red Badge of Courage by Stephen Crane.  It is supposed to be a very good war book from a man who never saw battle.

 

As to whether we are animals, my answer is affirmative; but if we do not rein in the beast, it will destroy any chance of peace that we may have.

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chad
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Re: "The Iliad" by Homer

"I have not read The Red Badge of Courage by Stephen Crane.  It is supposed to be a very good war book from a man who never saw battle.

 

As to whether we are animals, my answer is affirmative; but if we do not rein in the beast, it will destroy any chance of peace that we may have."

 

I think Crane attended a preparatory military academy, however, and also interviewed several union soldier vets. But I wonder, why rein in the beast? Do you think Nature is flawed?

 

Chad

 

 

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carusmm
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Re: "The Iliad" by Homer


chad wrote:

"I have not read The Red Badge of Courage by Stephen Crane.  It is supposed to be a very good war book from a man who never saw battle.

 

As to whether we are animals, my answer is affirmative; but if we do not rein in the beast, it will destroy any chance of peace that we may have."

 

I think Crane attended a preparatory military academy, however, and also interviewed several union soldier vets. But I wonder, why rein in the beast? Do you think Nature is flawed?

 

Chad

 

 


Nature is red in tooth and claw, however nurture is a binding biological advantage; therefore it is our habit to kill and nurture.  No-one ever said things were simple.  But without mercy, we are worse than animals.

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chad
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Re: "The Iliad" by Homer

"Nature is red in tooth and claw, however nurture is a binding biological advantage; therefore it is our habit to kill and nurture.  No-one ever said things were simple.  But without mercy, we are worse than animals."

 

Boy, I'll say. And things were never more complicated than when we left "Wuthering Heights" by Emily Bronte. Nature/Nuture. Human/Animal. Who cares? We are the forces that shape us  Such distinctions are for mere mortals, not Titans....

 

Chad

 

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carusmm
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Re: "The Iliad" by Homer


chad wrote:

"Nature is red in tooth and claw, however nurture is a binding biological advantage; therefore it is our habit to kill and nurture.  No-one ever said things were simple.  But without mercy, we are worse than animals."

 

Boy, I'll say. And things were never more complicated than when we left "Wuthering Heights" by Emily Bronte. Nature/Nuture. Human/Animal. Who cares? We are the forces that shape us  Such distinctions are for mere mortals, not Titans....

 

Chad

 


 

Bertrand Russell made no distinction between ego and soul, he dismissed them equally as unnecessarily dualistic; and he was a titan.  Man is a community or nothing.

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Re: "The Iliad" by Homer


carusmm wrote:

chad wrote:

"Nature is red in tooth and claw, however nurture is a binding biological advantage; therefore it is our habit to kill and nurture.  No-one ever said things were simple.  But without mercy, we are worse than animals."

 

Boy, I'll say. And things were never more complicated than when we left "Wuthering Heights" by Emily Bronte. Nature/Nuture. Human/Animal. Who cares? We are the forces that shape us  Such distinctions are for mere mortals, not Titans....

 

Chad

 


 

Bertrand Russell made no distinction between ego and soul, he dismissed them equally as unnecessarily dualistic; and he was a titan.  Man is a community or nothing.


 

Bertrand Russell passed away in 1970- may he rest in peace. You obviously still feel his influence- well you should, and Miss Bronte would understand. There may not be a distinction between ego and soul, but is there a distinction between the physical and the metaphysical, the corporeal and the incorporeal?

 

Chad

 

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carusmm
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Re: "The Iliad" by Homer


chad wrote:

carusmm wrote:

chad wrote:

"Nature is red in tooth and claw, however nurture is a binding biological advantage; therefore it is our habit to kill and nurture.  No-one ever said things were simple.  But without mercy, we are worse than animals."

 

Boy, I'll say. And things were never more complicated than when we left "Wuthering Heights" by Emily Bronte. Nature/Nuture. Human/Animal. Who cares? We are the forces that shape us  Such distinctions are for mere mortals, not Titans....

 

Chad

 


 

Bertrand Russell made no distinction between ego and soul, he dismissed them equally as unnecessarily dualistic; and he was a titan.  Man is a community or nothing.


 

Bertrand Russell passed away in 1970- may he rest in peace. You obviously still feel his influence- well you should, and Miss Bronte would understand. There may not be a distinction between ego and soul, but is there a distinction between the physical and the metaphysical, the corporeal and the incorporeal?

 

Chad

 


I have never read Emily Bronte, therefore I do not know her position on these matters.  However, I find metaphysics like Buddha laughable. Recognition of the truth is a basic proposition, either you are a cretin or you are not.

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chad
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Re: "The Iliad" by Homer


carusmm wrote:

chad wrote:

carusmm wrote:

chad wrote:

"Nature is red in tooth and claw, however nurture is a binding biological advantage; therefore it is our habit to kill and nurture.  No-one ever said things were simple.  But without mercy, we are worse than animals."

 

Boy, I'll say. And things were never more complicated than when we left "Wuthering Heights" by Emily Bronte. Nature/Nuture. Human/Animal. Who cares? We are the forces that shape us  Such distinctions are for mere mortals, not Titans....

 

Chad

 


 

Bertrand Russell made no distinction between ego and soul, he dismissed them equally as unnecessarily dualistic; and he was a titan.  Man is a community or nothing.


 

Bertrand Russell passed away in 1970- may he rest in peace. You obviously still feel his influence- well you should, and Miss Bronte would understand. There may not be a distinction between ego and soul, but is there a distinction between the physical and the metaphysical, the corporeal and the incorporeal?

 

Chad

 


I have never read Emily Bronte, therefore I do not know her position on these matters.  However, I find metaphysics like Buddha laughable. Recognition of the truth is a basic proposition, either you are a cretin or you are not.


The destruction of the Buddha in Afghanistan was no laughing matter however. What, say you, to the proposition that language is alive? If it is, the fact that you are or are not a cretin and recognition of the truth are inconsequential.

 

Chad

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TiggerBear
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Re: "The Iliad" by Homer

 


chad wrote:

carusmm wrote:

chad wrote:

carusmm wrote:

chad wrote:

"Nature is red in tooth and claw, however nurture is a binding biological advantage; therefore it is our habit to kill and nurture.  No-one ever said things were simple.  But without mercy, we are worse than animals."

 

Boy, I'll say. And things were never more complicated than when we left "Wuthering Heights" by Emily Bronte. Nature/Nuture. Human/Animal. Who cares? We are the forces that shape us  Such distinctions are for mere mortals, not Titans....

 

Chad

 


 

Bertrand Russell made no distinction between ego and soul, he dismissed them equally as unnecessarily dualistic; and he was a titan.  Man is a community or nothing.


 

Bertrand Russell passed away in 1970- may he rest in peace. You obviously still feel his influence- well you should, and Miss Bronte would understand. There may not be a distinction between ego and soul, but is there a distinction between the physical and the metaphysical, the corporeal and the incorporeal?

 

Chad

 


I have never read Emily Bronte, therefore I do not know her position on these matters.  However, I find metaphysics like Buddha laughable. Recognition of the truth is a basic proposition, either you are a cretin or you are not.


The destruction of the Buddha in Afghanistan was no laughing matter however. What, say you, to the proposition that language is alive? If it is, the fact that you are or are not a cretin and recognition of the truth are inconsequential.

 

Chad


Buddhas, plural Buddhas and the subjugation of an entire ethinicity in that country.

 

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carusmm
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Re: "The Iliad" by Homer

The fault of the prophets is that the prophets are far too serious in their ignorance.  The Bible raises barely a snigger for all its nonsense.  Man is nothing right now, language is useless against the mass of humanity because fountains of hope speak louder to it than the charity of learning.  I have hope that death will be final because heaven is silence and obedience.

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Re: "The Iliad" by Homer

[ Edited ]

Reason is a rather dry affair, therefore what the people like to do is to drink themselves into a stupor on heroics. One sees this in rationalists as well as the religious, it is vastly popular.  Nonetheless, reason is not a hatred or false economy; it has all the features of fantasy except a conclusion tucked safely up its sleeve.  The unwashed masses desire it as a magic roundabout.  I desire it for truth.

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Re: "The Iliad" by Homer

Theory in the singular is a misnomer.  It is a harsh rule of science that few theories pass examination and the rest fail.  Religion refuses examination by being certain of everything.  If Martin Luther was right about one thing, it was his belief that reason was the snake in the Garden.  For this reason, the religio must be irrational all the time, it is the safeguard of his faith.

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chad
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Re: "The Iliad" by Homer

 


carusmm wrote:

Theory in the singular is a misnomer.  It is a harsh rule of science that few theories pass examination and the rest fail.  Religion refuses examination by being certain of everything.  If Martin Luther was right about one thing, it was his belief that reason was the snake in the Garden.  For this reason, the religio must be irrational all the time, it is the safeguard of his faith.


Can you answer the question: Is language alive? The muses are waiting.

 

Chad

 

PS- I'll post "The Buddha and Afghanistan" up on the current events board.