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Wordsmith
marciliogq
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Re: Language

It sounds good to thinf of it. How conventional thing are through my language. I was discussing it today with a friend: even a chair, a simple chair needs first to be seen, recognized, having its image recorded on my mind, all of a mind process will happen, this process is truly connected to cultural values. So I finally "recognize"the object in my context as a CHAIR. Perhaps the same can happen through symbology in what refers to abstract concepts. We may be make immediate association to them through language (which implies so many backstage concepts).

 


ConnieK wrote:

 

marciliogq wrote:

ConnieK and Chad,

 

The discussion about language is a bit fruitful and controversial. If think on language as the source of creation, or been, God used language to create everything (birds, sea, earth, universe, man...) and even God himself exists through language. There's a book in Brazilian Literature called The hour of the star by Clarice Lispector and I remember the narrator says: God only exists if I "SAY"  He exists, if I pronounce His name. So, the same idea is you have been said.

 If we use language to reinforce opposites and life is entirely made of these polarities so even God and Devil are creation of language? Am I only a human being and all of my concepts of philosophy, life, social relationship, culture a product of my own language too?


Interesting.  This makes me wonder about another topic--not language and 'creation,' but rather language and knowledge.  I wonder--we can 'know' a table by touching it, banging our shin on it, etc., but can we 'know' abstractions--love, faith, for example, without language to articulate them and share them with others? 

~ConnieK



 

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marciliogq
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Re: Language

I have no knowledge about Stephen Crane's view. So I need to read it to understand his perspective on language.

 

 


 

Chad wrote:

 

I liked Stephen Crane's view. Our language contains elements of the earth and sky. The earth represents the tangible and the sky represents the intangible.

 

Chad


 

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chad
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Tower oF Babel

The 1800' saw the intoduction, instruction and destruction of laguages in different parts of the world, so the writers of that time period often write about language itself. But there is a popular story from religion about the Tower of Babel. I also recommend "Babbitt" by Sinclair Lewis (from the 1900's, though)  and the movie "Babel" was also interesting which starred Brad Pitt among others.

 

Chad

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marciliogq
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Re: Tower oF Babel

I'll see the film and try to get the essence you suggested. Would you have more specific authors to indicate? 

Thanks

 

 


chad wrote:

 

 

The 1800' saw the intoduction, instruction and destruction of laguages in different parts of the world, so the writers of that time period often write about language itself. But there is a popular story from religion about the Tower of Babel. I also recommend "Babbitt" by Sinclair Lewis (from the 1900's, though)  and the movie "Babel" was also interesting which starred Brad Pitt among others.

 

Chad


 

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chad
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Re: Tower oF Babel

[ Edited ]

-- pretty much anything from the 1800's on language. "Babbit" is entertaining and takes place at the beginning of the age of the skyscraper, the rising "middle class", the impact of industry on language, etc. "Babel", the movie, begins in a skyscraper and its also kind of suspenseful from what I remember...

 

Chad 

 

PS- But you seem like you're into religion and the biblical story of the Tower of Babel seemed to make a statement about language(s). I don't know what your take on that story might be (?). 

Message Edited by chad on 05-14-2009 10:05 AM
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carusmm
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Re: Tower oF Babel

The Old Man and the Sea is simply sublime.

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chad
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Re: Opposites

[ Edited ]

ConnieAnnKirk wrote:

chad wrote, in part:

 

Language is a mirror, of sorts, by the way....Do polar opposites exist in Nature as they do in religion?

 


Your post makes me think, Chad, of the reflection of the sky in bodies of water--that mirror effect, so to speak.  Would you see the line of the sea at the horizon as one of your lines demarcating polar opposites in Nature?

Message Edited by ConnieK on 05-06-2009 04:36 PM

Carusmm keeps digging up old posts, but I must have missed the above comment of Connie's. 

 

I did see the horizon line of the ocean and sky as a line which demarcates "polar opposites." However, we know that different worlds exist on the other side of the line, albeit with similiarities. I think one similarity to both worlds was an animal with wings- Hemingway mentions "the flying fish."  But a reflection, like the refection of the sky in the water, which reveals a world exactly opposite to the world of the observer, is just an illusion- nevermind anti-matter/matter theory.....

 

Similarly, geopolitical, political and national lines are sometimes regarded as lines between polar opposites, but they are seldom polar opposites, if they ever are. A good example might be the line between east/west Berlin that was once regarded as the line between eastern/western political ideologies. East and west are directional opposites, but communism and capitalism are not (well, if you consider capitalism to be a political ideology-usually political wars in the U.S. erupt between conservatives and liberals- maybe different forms of capitalism?) We could certainly find simliar politics and/or political regimes in both the U.S. and the USSR during the the height of cold war. And other interesting opposites in politics exist. Here's a website: 

 

http://www.civilpolitics.org/2010/02/are-liberals-and-conservatives-polar-opposites-or-mirror-images

 

Chad

 

PS- Fidel Castro embraced a communist philosophy to help form the a new Cuban government, The lines between both Cuba and the U.S., political ideologies, east and west and so on, strengthened and the rest is history.....  

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Re: Opposites

Angels and demons are all in the service of God though mirror images of one another.  The horizon as a line between the two worlds is slightly beautiful allegorically.  All the same, the old man of Hemingway's story wrestles a mixture of both even after passing beyond the horizon; and that man is really not himself in the primordial, that he must go further and also return, not defeated but tired.   It is certainly no allegory that I drew before from Hemingway's story; and I may have talked the biggest load of nonsense in my life just now.

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Re: Opposites


carusmm wrote:

Angels and demons are all in the service of God though mirror images of one another.  The horizon as a line between the two worlds is slightly beautiful allegorically.  All the same, the old man of Hemingway's story wrestles a mixture of both even after passing beyond the horizon; and that man is really not himself in the primordial, that he must go further and also return, not defeated but tired.   It is certainly no allegory that I drew before from Hemingway's story; and I may have talked the biggest load of nonsense in my life just now.


The old man may have not been tired after his fight, he may have been resigned to death, that he had transcended fear to a better place, and he had returned home to a tomb.

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carusmm
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Re: Opposites


carusmm wrote:

carusmm wrote:

Angels and demons are all in the service of God though mirror images of one another.  The horizon as a line between the two worlds is slightly beautiful allegorically.  All the same, the old man of Hemingway's story wrestles a mixture of both even after passing beyond the horizon; and that man is really not himself in the primordial, that he must go further and also return, not defeated but tired.   It is certainly no allegory that I drew before from Hemingway's story; and I may have talked the biggest load of nonsense in my life just now.


The old man may have not been tired after his fight, he may have been resigned to death, that he had transcended fear to a better place, and he had returned home to a tomb.


The old man went walkabout by boat.

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chad
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Re: Opposites


carusmm wrote:

carusmm wrote:

carusmm wrote:

Angels and demons are all in the service of God though mirror images of one another.  The horizon as a line between the two worlds is slightly beautiful allegorically.  All the same, the old man of Hemingway's story wrestles a mixture of both even after passing beyond the horizon; and that man is really not himself in the primordial, that he must go further and also return, not defeated but tired.   It is certainly no allegory that I drew before from Hemingway's story; and I may have talked the biggest load of nonsense in my life just now.


The old man may have not been tired after his fight, he may have been resigned to death, that he had transcended fear to a better place, and he had returned home to a tomb.


The old man went walkabout by boat.


You go, girl.