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chad
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personality/personage

Basically, a specific "type" of man and women would be able to distinguish (or cope witth the distinction) between "personality and persona", but that man or woman might need training akin to training you might find in the military, in order to help them make that distinction, or help them to cope. Sometimes school feels like you're in the army, or perhaps produces an army, and so on....:smileywink:

 

Chad

 

PS- Sometimes I feel like I'm living in a civilian army- and I think schools help to train the "civilian army", or inadvertently produces one....

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chad
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Re: personality/personage


chad wrote:

Basically, a specific "type" of man and woman would be able to distinguish (or cope witth the distinction) between "personality and persona", but that man or woman might need training akin to training you might find in the military, in order to help them make that distinction, or help them to cope. Sometimes school feels like you're in the army, or perhaps produces an army, and so on....:smileywink:

 

Chad

 

PS- Sometimes I feel like I'm living in a civilian army- and I think schools help to train the "civilian army", or inadvertently produces one....


Another way of looking at it: sometimes you encounter that "don't take it personally" sentiment- and school may help train people to "not take it so personally". Also, we often we assign a maturity level to how we do, or don't take it personally.

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Fascism

[ Edited ]

I thought I'd mention- (we're never done with this most interesting novel-lol:smileyvery-happy:):

 

The early 1900's saw the creation of  a new term: "facism." World War One is credited for the creation of "Facism"- in Italy, whose position in World War One was "pivotal." Mussolini founded the Fascist party, which found some acceptance in World War 1, and of course, found more acceptance after World War 1, and during World War 2.

 

Identifying the necessary elements of "facism", or defining fascism is difficult to say the least-  probably a task for the "academic eager beaver." We usually think of a "fascist" nation as a "dictatorship." But many of the European nations, not just Italy, around the turn of the century, were reported to have accepted "fascism" to some degree, or at least, contained "fascist regimes."

 

And the question was whether the U.S. had to become a "fascist" nation, as a reaction to the politics in Europe and World War One, or maybe we just followed the way the world was moving. One interesting identiifying element of "facism", and this is arguable, is a combination of right and left wing parties under a unifying nationalism ,or flag, through education and training- kind of like a "junta" or stratocracy.

Remember that the turn of the century was the beginning of a "mandated" education. Are we a "fascist" nation today? Or how much still remains from the politics of World War One?

 

 

 

 

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Education

So, to return to the beginning, I love reading books from the 20's, because of the era's remarkable sophistication, that is, sophistication fostered by education. And if you read "This Side" , you definitely get that feel. But, for Amory, and several of the female characters, the era was pehaps a bit too sophisticated for love and love-making, as evidenced by the characters trying to find love in disintegrating romance notions from the previous eras, most notably, from the increasingly "outdated" "Victorian Era." And the relationships often fell short of the character's expectations- to say the least.

 

As I stated, mandated education began in the early part of the 20th century, and it's interesting to compare our time with early part of the 20th century. Some lucky enough to have found love in this modern era, may feel they have a better love now, long after the world left Victorian era. And others, who have some difficulty finding love, and after reading the story, may feel that love, if it exists at all, could only exist @1900, before the advent of WW1.

 

 

 

 

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Classification

I classed Amory, et al, in the middle to upper middle class. So, in general, the story would be about the education, the sophistication and the psychoses of this class of people. But our history in the U.S. and the world in general, is about an expanding educated "middle class." And it's interesting: maybe we are now more a culture that can relate to some of the characters in the story, than we were at the turn of the century. When I mentioned edcuation and sophistication, people were laughing because they were thinking of the public schools, which were more "disciplined" then, and maybe more sophisticated in the early part of the twentieth century, than now.I think some members of the upper middle class, or the middle class, were like "lieutenants" in the military to Fitzgerald. The military-like character was a product of education- maybe the character was an inadevertant by-product, or maybe it was for a purpose, like WW1- it was up to the reader to decide, I think. Again, the U.S. and the world becoming something more "fascist."
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The Family and Socialism

[ Edited ]
Fitzgerald, towards the end of "This Side", posits that the notion of the family is antagonistic, or interferes with "Socialism." I thought this was kind of interesting, given that both major parties have lauded family values, but seem to have difficulty agreeing on what might be considered to be "socialist" legislation, like a national health care plan, for example. Would gay marraige supporters and/or national health care supporters be more effective in achieving objectives as a "Socialist" party? Remember that the "Populist" party fizzled at the turn of the century.
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Quick return to the cosmo constant

Education, or universities are often a "side" or a line between many things, and they continually try to define "lines", either by building churches in the center of the campus, or by investing in the sciences, as Princeton did @the turn of the century. But the university is a place where religion and science need not necessarily be incompatible. In fact, they converge as academicians try to gain insight into the "sides" of our universe, or "God", as the case may be. Physicists continue to gain insight into the properties of the "Higgs-boson" particle, a.k.a the "God" particle- a scientific discovery which began with Einstein's theory of relativity and his use of a "cosmological constant."
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Education and Pyschology

[ Edited ]
Pyschology was just a fledgling field when Amory decides to enroll in a class at Princeton, but pyschology seems to impact Amory's education, as well as the society at large. Now, we can view things as either "sane" or "insane", including "criminal" behavior, or any "misbehavior" (which includes failing grades, in my opinion) that takes place in the classroom. And today we see an increasing reliance on pyschology by education, as more students report having taken a pysch. medication at some point whilethey were attending school. http://www.nytimes.com/2013/04/01/health/more-diagnoses-of-hyperactivity-causing-concern.html?pagewa...
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Re: Education and Psychology

[ Edited ]
Psychology- excuse the typo! No-I'm not taking anything for that spelling error.-lol. I'm using an iPad as well-small typeset.
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Re: Education and Psychology

Seriously, I guess we'd have to verify the accuracy of the NYTimes report, but I had also read a similar report from Germany- same thing happening in their schools. I thought "This Side" was one of the more controversial novels- I was kind of surprised. I don't know if anyone out there had been required to read this one. The timing of mandated education was always suspect- it came during a time when the country had to become more unified for war....anyway, education is something we have to deal with now, come what may....it's like this unstoppable force. On the positive side , new technologies may help us to improve and become more innovative in education. Ans there's so much more to this intriguing novel.
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Princeton University

I just picked this up from the Princeton website: The president of the College at the time of the Revolution was John Witherspoon, eminent Scottish divine who held the office from 1768 to his death in 1794. Witherspoon was the only ordained clergyman to sign the Declaration of Independence, and for six years thereafter he was an active and influential member of the Continental Congress. During the war years he found it difficult, and at times impossible, to keep the College in session. The graduating class of 1776 had 27 members, the five classes immediately following a grand total of 30. For much of the time, Nassau Hall was used as a barracks or hospital by troops, either British or American. As the Battle of Princeton drew to its close on Jan. 3, 1777, British soldiers attempted a last stand within its walls, but American artillery fire helped persuade them instead to surrender. Tradition has it that a cannon ball fired by a battery commanded by Alexander Hamilton decapitated a portrait of King George II, leaving the frame intact for later use in hanging a portrait of George Washington. Whatever the fact, the damage done to the building by the war was extensive and costly. Just an example of how universities are a "line", and espeically in the case of Princeton U., which was the line in our very first war, the Revolutionary War. But somehow the school survived, and continued to torment people all over the states with their multiple choice tests- lol. Signing off, finally I think, on this one, best, Chad
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Re: The Cosmological Constant

I was just reviewing some notes- Amory does represent "love" which individuals or societies shape and mold in various ways, either inavdvertantly or purposely- I'm assuming love is a constant, I'm hoping it's the universal constant.....nuff said....
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Re: The Cosmological Constant

I think I'm staying with Carroll's equation for the Cosmo constant, which is still an approximation. But if you're a space buff, scientists think the dark energy may be the Cosmo constant.
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Re: The Cosmological Constant

Love is shaped in the story through romantic notions, marraige, education, religion, rejection, intellect, family..... and so forth and so on.....Amory represents love, more specifically he represents "a side" or "a line" that he tries to maintain throughout the novel... He triumphs in the end, realizing he is who he is...Amory Blaine. Chad PS- That civilization controls "love" is another " no brainer." I, as a dictator, can maintain law and order by controlling sexuality. But See Conrad's HEART OF DARKNESS-that one came to mind Moreover, same sex marraige is still a hot current events topic.