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Distinguished Bibliophile
keriflur
Posts: 6,700
Registered: ‎01-05-2010

Apple/DoJ Pre-Trial Filings are Out

[ Edited ]

http://www.publishersweekly.com/pw/by-topic/digital/content-and-e-books/article/57246-pre-trial-fili...

 

I think it's interesting that the DoJ actually uses the term "price-fixing" as it's been discussed many times that the agency model is legal and does not consitute price fixing (it seems like the DoJ is referring to the collusion to raise prices, which is suspect is legally not the same thing).

 

Also - the wealth of evidence gathered is huge.  I kinda wonder, if they had so much from what was going on at the time of the collusion and move to the agency model, why did it take them so long to file suit?

Distinguished Bibliophile
roustabout
Posts: 3,628
Registered: ‎03-31-2011
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Re: Apple/DoJ Pre-Trial Filings are Out

They seem to have been forced to file by a few things.  

 

The European regulators started earlier, as did some of the state AGs.  And the documents from  those were going to be public before too much longer. 

 

The public and no doubt highly embarrassing privately filed antitrust action probably played a role as well. 

 

Who gets jurisdiction if private, state and Federal actions are moving in parallel? IF if's the DoJ, it may be that this is the best outcome possible for the publishers and for Apple.  

"no warrants shall issue, but upon probable cause, supported by oath or affirmation, and particularly describing the place to be searched, and the persons or things to be seized." Fourth Amendment to the US Constitution.
Bibliophile
5ivedom
Posts: 3,544
Registered: ‎12-03-2011
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Re: Apple/DoJ Pre-Trial Filings are Out

Interesting. The amount of evidence is a lot more than I realized. Some of the stuff is pretty crazy to put into email. Apple don't seem that bright, or perhaps just too arrogant.

Distinguished Bibliophile
roustabout
Posts: 3,628
Registered: ‎03-31-2011
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Re: Apple/DoJ Pre-Trial Filings are Out

Apparently no one ever thinks they'll be charged with antitrust crimes. The case against the big publishers and Barnes and Noble for colluding against independent booksellers is also filled with a lot of clear statements of crimes.
"no warrants shall issue, but upon probable cause, supported by oath or affirmation, and particularly describing the place to be searched, and the persons or things to be seized." Fourth Amendment to the US Constitution.
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Omnigeek
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Registered: ‎01-25-2011
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Re: Apple/DoJ Pre-Trial Filings are Out

I've maintained for a while that neither Eric Holder nor his DOJ have demonstrated any understanding of the Constitution or law.  They uphold what they want to uphold, ignore what they want to ignore, and charge what they want to charge while their legal readings are somewhat like the Red Queen's dictionary.

Currently reading: Destiny of the Republic, Angel Fire East, Batman Year One, Appleseed
Inspired Bibliophile
deesy58
Posts: 2,486
Registered: ‎01-22-2012
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Re: Apple/DoJ Pre-Trial Filings are Out


Omnigeek wrote:

I've maintained for a while that neither Eric Holder nor his DOJ have demonstrated any understanding of the Constitution or law.  They uphold what they want to uphold, ignore what they want to ignore, and charge what they want to charge while their legal readings are somewhat like the Red Queen's dictionary.


The anttitrust laws are what they are.  They were passed by Congress and signed into law by former presidents.  They have been upheld by various Supreme Courts.  It is the duty of the Attorney General of the United States to enforce the law.  Having a particular political bias does not change the facts.  Price fixing is a crime.  Plain and simple!  The sad thing is that nobody will go to jail for cheating consumers on a massive scale. 

Distinguished Bibliophile
keriflur
Posts: 6,700
Registered: ‎01-05-2010

Re: Apple/DoJ Pre-Trial Filings are Out


deesy58 wrote:

Price fixing is a crime.  Plain and simple!  The sad thing is that nobody will go to jail for cheating consumers on a massive scale. 


Yes, but in this case, there was no price fixing, just collusion.  So... It seems a bit strange that the DoJ would get the two confused.

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deesy58
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Registered: ‎01-22-2012
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Re: Apple/DoJ Pre-Trial Filings are Out

[ Edited ]

keriflur wrote:

deesy58 wrote:

Price fixing is a crime.  Plain and simple!  The sad thing is that nobody will go to jail for cheating consumers on a massive scale. 


Yes, but in this case, there was no price fixing, just collusion.  So... It seems a bit strange that the DoJ would get the two confused.


I think you need to look into this a little deeper.  It wasn't collusion to bring better literature to readers; it was collusion to fix prices.  It even says as much in the DOJ complaint.

 

Why are there so many posters on this forum who seem to want to act as apologists for criminals?

 

It seems strange that you would confuse honest and honorable behavior with criminal behavior.  :smileyfrustrated:

flyingtoastr
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Re: Apple/DoJ Pre-Trial Filings are Out

http://www.publishersweekly.com/pw/by-topic/digital/content-and-e-books/article/57308-amazon-fights-...

 

Interesting article about Amazon trying to get all their documents redacted for the case.

Distinguished Bibliophile
keriflur
Posts: 6,700
Registered: ‎01-05-2010
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Re: Apple/DoJ Pre-Trial Filings are Out


deesy58 wrote:
I think you need to look into this a little deeper.  It wasn't collusion to bring better literature to readers; it was collusion to fix prices.  It even says as much in the DOJ complaint.

The fact that it says that in the DoJ complaint is what's so strange.  The Agency Model is legal and is NOT price fixing.  What the publishers colluded to do is to all implement the model at the same time, so that they could take control over pricing, and control is not the same as fixing.  Fixing implies a set price across vendors, and the fact is that with the agency model, the publisher is the vendor, so while each title has only one price, it also has only one vendor, and this is LEGAL and NOT PRICE FIXING.  Also, there was no fixed price across all books, so, not price fixing.

 

It's not about choosing a side here, it's about choosing the law.  While the DoJ docs talk about price fixing as part of the case, they are not pressing charges for price fixing, because they know they'd never win that case, because that's not what happened.