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Bibliophile
5ivedom
Posts: 3,544
Registered: ‎12-03-2011
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Re: It's ALL doomed! James Patterson is afraid so, anyway.

So why hasn't something similar happened to the recording industry?  The record labels are still around and you'd think that the consumption of music is mainly digital now.

 

*****

Firstly, music isn't a good indicator for books. They're completely separate markets.

 

Secondly, are you asking this question from the perspective of music consumers or artists and record labels?

 

Because the situation is very different depending on whom you ask.

 

Music has lots of side revenue streams like concerts and merchandise. Books Industry doesn't.

 

The effect on music is supposedly very little, unless you're an actual label or an actual successful artist. You can run into the hundreds of Articles discussing how much musicians make from Pandora and such to see one example. There are several other ways in which the industry is affected.

 

*****

That being said, it's not very relevant. Music is used as a proxy for what might happen with books but it's very different of a market. It'd be like using Newspapers as a proxy for what will happen with books. Makes for a scary/interesting thought but it's not valid.

Wordsmith
TnTexas
Posts: 892
Registered: ‎10-22-2011
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Re: It's ALL doomed! James Patterson is afraid so, anyway.

5ivedom: Music has lots of side revenue streams like concerts and merchandise. Books Industry doesn't.

 

Actually it does. They're called, lectures, book signings, school visits, etc.I think I remember reading somewhere that many traditionally published authors make more money on those kinds of things (or at least as much at them) than the books themselves - at least in children's publishing.

flyingtoastr
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Re: It's ALL doomed! James Patterson is afraid so, anyway.

[ Edited ]

TnTexas wrote:

5ivedom: Music has lots of side revenue streams like concerts and merchandise. Books Industry doesn't.

 

Actually it does. They're called, lectures, book signings, school visits, etc.I think I remember reading somewhere that many traditionally published authors make more money on those kinds of things (or at least as much at them) than the books themselves - at least in children's publishing.


In fiction trade publishing the money from events is often just increased sales, and it isn't usually that much (since the people likely to go to an author signing are likely to already be fans and thus buy the books anyway regardless of the signing). In addition, the costs to set up a signing for any mid- or high-tier author for the bookstores themselves are quite high - a lot of payroll and logistics go into making a two hour event go smoothly, especially for big authors who attract hundreds of people. The major publishers are definitely not bothering as much with big signing tours like they used to simply because it doesn't have that large of an impact.

 

Non-fiction, particularly business books, are a different beast. Most buisness authors don't make a huge amount on the books themselves, but use them (and their sales metrics) to get bookings for lectures and seminars that bring in the real money.

AlanNJ
Posts: 3,722
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Registered: ‎03-09-2010
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Re: It's ALL doomed! James Patterson is afraid so, anyway.

Speaking for myself I've been reading for 54 years (started when I was 3) and have never had the desire to get a book signed, go to a lecture pertaining to a book or any other event.

 

►Without order there is chaos◄
Distinguished Bibliophile
keriflur
Posts: 6,767
Registered: ‎01-05-2010
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Re: It's ALL doomed! James Patterson is afraid so, anyway.


flyingtoastr wrote:

TnTexas wrote:

5ivedom: Music has lots of side revenue streams like concerts and merchandise. Books Industry doesn't.

 

Actually it does. They're called, lectures, book signings, school visits, etc.I think I remember reading somewhere that many traditionally published authors make more money on those kinds of things (or at least as much at them) than the books themselves - at least in children's publishing.


In fiction trade publishing the money from events is often just increased sales, and it isn't usually that much (since the people likely to go to an author signing are likely to already be fans and thus buy the books anyway regardless of the signing). In addition, the costs to set up a signing for any mid- or high-tier author for the bookstores themselves are quite high - a lot of payroll and logistics go into making a two hour event go smoothly, especially for big authors who attract hundreds of people. The major publishers are definitely not bothering as much with big signing tours like they used to simply because it doesn't have that large of an impact.

 

Non-fiction, particularly business books, are a different beast. Most buisness authors don't make a huge amount on the books themselves, but use them (and their sales metrics) to get bookings for lectures and seminars that bring in the real money.


Likewise, fiction authors can make decent money speaking at conferences and retreats.

Distinguished Bibliophile
bobstro
Posts: 3,939
Registered: ‎01-01-2012

Re: It's ALL doomed! James Patterson is afraid so, anyway.

It's not like there hasn't been disruption in the publishing industry before. Paper back books didn't kill off hardcovers. True, there were shifts in numbers. And again, neither print and eBooks are exclusively self or traditionally published, nor vice versa. 

 

Newspapers aren't a good indicator for books either. You can Google for stories, or hit Reuters and get essentially the same thing you get in print, only more current. You're not going to find the latest NYT picks on the Web (at least not legally). 

 

5, I'm expecting and evolution and transformation, but I certainly don't expect traditional or self publishing to have its arm raised and declared the victor by unanimous decision. Publishers will evolve in order to survive. They're not stupid and have seen this coming. 

Distinguished Correspondent
auntykatkat
Posts: 114
Registered: ‎02-23-2010

Re: It's ALL doomed! James Patterson is afraid so, anyway.

[ Edited ]

bobstro wrote:

 I'm expecting and evolution and transformation, but I certainly don't expect traditional or self publishing to have its arm raised and declared the victor by unanimous decision. Publishers will evolve in order to survive. They're not stupid and have seen this coming. 


I disagree. I feel they have been stupid, and helped with the end of the indie bookstores, and the creation of Amazon. I feel that they have stabbed libraries in the back. And with the DOJ settlement that they alienated a lot of readers along the way. This is just my opinion. They may have seen it coming but have watered the seeds of discontent along the way. You do not alienate readers, booksellers, or libraries that help to sell your product. That is just STUPID.

 

Auntykatkat

 

Bibliophile
5ivedom
Posts: 3,544
Registered: ‎12-03-2011
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Re: It's ALL doomed! James Patterson is afraid so, anyway.

1) What AuntyKatKat said.

 

Out of music publishers, book publishers, movie studios, the stupidest in terms of customer relationships are book publishers.

 

They go out of their way to alienate people and partners.

 

Plus, with things like Agency Model and with the current $13.99 prices for new releases, they are alienating the people who are migrating to ebooks and in many ways ensuring their bonds with ebook readers are even weaker than those with general readers.

 

*******

 

2) You can't really compare music industry non-music cd and non-music download sales to what authors make from book tours and speaking tours.

 

Here, consider this list of top 2012 Concert Earnings, http://www.businessinsider.com/highest-grossing-concert-tours-of-2012-2012-12

 

#1 Madonna in 2012 - $228.4 million.

 

#2 Bruce Springsteen - $199 million.

 

#3 Roger Waters - $186.5 million.

 

#6 Lady Gaga - $124.5 million.

 

#10 Andre Rieu - $48 million.

 

I don't even know who Andre Rieu is, and he's making $48 million a year from concerts.

 

*****

There's no comparison.

 

What's the most ANY author earned from book tours last year?

Distinguished Bibliophile
keriflur
Posts: 6,767
Registered: ‎01-05-2010
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Re: It's ALL doomed! James Patterson is afraid so, anyway.


5ivedom wrote:

1) What AuntyKatKat said.

 

Out of music publishers, book publishers, movie studios, the stupidest in terms of customer relationships are book publishers.

 

They go out of their way to alienate people and partners.

 

Plus, with things like Agency Model and with the current $13.99 prices for new releases, they are alienating the people who are migrating to ebooks and in many ways ensuring their bonds with ebook readers are even weaker than those with general readers.

 


I'm not sure that feelings about publishers are ultimately a factor to most readers.  Sure, here on the forums and in the kindle forums, people are aware, but that's a small subset of the reading population.  Most folks, myself included, can't tell you who published their favorite books.  Heck, I CARE who publishes what, because it actually does matter to me as a writer, but the only reason I even know who published the current book I'm reading is because someone asked me about it in another thread.  Most folks just read what they like and never give the pub a thought (and that goes for self-pub too).

Distinguished Bibliophile
bobstro
Posts: 3,939
Registered: ‎01-01-2012
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Re: It's ALL doomed! James Patterson is afraid so, anyway.

Agreed that readers don't care who published a book, or whether it's self or traditionally published. I think they can tell whether a book has been edited or even proofread. I don't buy into the notion that the demand for good writing suddenly disappears. The technologies that allow just anybody to publish also make getting recognized more difficult, and quality of writing is a surefire differentiator. 

 

I don't know that TODAY'S crop of publishing will survive, but the process itself and decades of refinement hopefully won't just be lost. If nothing else, professional journals should still insist on peer review. 

 

On an altogether different note, Lithium seems to be recognizing newlines entered via my mobile browser. I seem to have paragraph breaks.