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AlanNJ
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Re: Buying Nook books at your local B&N

[ Edited ]

flyingtoastr wrote:

I really need to just learn my lesson and stop responding to trolls.


You probably should.  Luckily I see no trolls around in this forum unless you're referring to posts that just don't conform to your opinions.  Then there are numerous trolls here.

►Without order there is chaos◄
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RHWright
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Re: Buying Nook books at your local B&N


keriflur wrote:
 

What exactly would you have me produce?  The internet wasn't exactly booming back then.

 

So you had a different experience.  Okay.


 

Well, something concrete. A contemporary news story. A leaked memo. Lawsuit depositions. Something.

 

I too was around for a lot of talk and innuendo about "big bad box retail booksellers" (B&N, Borders, BAM!, Wal-Mart, etc) trying to drive indy bookstores out of business and not in just that "we're better competitors" sort of way but in a "they're out to get us" sort of way.

 

Talked to plenty of indy and ex-indy store owners, of new & used books. Heard the rumors and scuttlebutt among the managers and workers. But that's all it ever amounted to: talk.

 

Did B&N's going "big" change the marketplace? Definitely. Did those changes (and inability to adapt to them) cause some businesses to go under? Also, definitely.

 

I just see no evidence that B&N actively decided to and took moves for the purpose of driving indy bookstores out of business.

 

So, I guess what I want is the smoking gun if we're going to accuse B&N of "killing" indy bookstores. A directive that says, "cut our prices so that indys can't compete," or a memo that instructs, "choose this location for the new store, it's right down the street from so-and-so; let's drive them out of town."

 

Were B&N's actions at the time and in retrospect good for the industry as a whole? Probably not. Were they a concerted conspiracy to drive mom 'n' pops into bankruptcy? Unlikely.

 

Just the type of shortsightedness that seems to plague all businesses: as long as our growth and earnings are good this quarter/year, who cares about any one else? This is not unique to B&N.

 

That "some day" they've ignored has arrived and is apparent in B&N's struggles.

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keriflur
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Re: Buying Nook books at your local B&N

[ Edited ]

AlanNJ wrote:

flyingtoastr wrote:

I really need to just learn my lesson and stop responding to trolls.


You probably should.  Luckily I see no trolls around in this forum unless you're referring to posts that just don't conform to your opinions.  Then there are numerous trolls here.


There's a troll, it's just not you.  Or toastr. Or RHWright.

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keriflur
Posts: 6,805
Registered: ‎01-05-2010

Re: Buying Nook books at your local B&N

[ Edited ]

RHWright - What I said was the the Indie Bookstores felt hostile toward B&N management.  Everything you've described supports that.  You seem to be looking for me to describe hostility in the other direction, but that was Toastr that said B&N Management didn't feel positively toward indies, not me.  I've no idea what B&N feels or felt back then.

 

The indies felt like B&N was trying to put them out of business, that they were showing up in their cities and pricing agressively in a way the indies could not with full knowledge of what would happen.  This is the mirror to what Amazon is doing to B&N, and why a lot of indie booksellers and former booksellers won't shed a tear if B&N goes down because of Amazon.  They see it as a comeuppance.  There was, and still is, a lot of anger on the indie side about it.  If you'd like to choose a word other than hostility, go ahead, I won't fight you.

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Mercury_Glitch
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Re: Buying Nook books at your local B&N


deesy58 wrote:

Mercury_Glitch wrote:

Only selling ebooks in the store and no where else would be less profitable.  Selling them for slightly less in the store, and thus drawing someone in who would have otherwise not been in the store gets that store the sale, but also has the potential to be more profitable than the website if that person makes an impulse purchase, or gets something from the cafe. 

 

There was a post awhile back about how Amazons 'impluse purchases' from their 'people who bought this item also bought these items' was not very effective.  So it really can't be argued that the website will create higher impulse purchases than the stores, which have people who can actually tailor a book suggestion to you rather than suggesting you buy batteries because people who bought Hunger Games also bought batteries. 

 

That's also where all the gifty items that are in B&N pay off. 


I'm not sure I can agree with that position. 

If I want an e-book, and only an e-book, I will purchase it directly from my NOOK in the comfort of my home.  If I want to peruse the store for magazines or DTBs, I will make the trip to the store.  To travel to the store solely in order to purchase e-books is not a rational behavior for most consumers.

It would be irresponsible for B&N Management to rely on the irrational behavior of a few consumers in order to ensure maximum profitability.  The marginal profit on any e-book will always be greater when it is purchased from the Web site.  B&N Management is meeting its responsibilities to shareholders by not emphasizing the purchase of e-books from brick-and-mortar stores. 

Selling e-books for less in a store would absolutely guarantee a lower profit margin (per book) in the hopes that maybe consumers might purchase something else while in the store.  That's gambling.  If B&N Management really felt that lucky, they would probably all be in Las Vegas. 

Suggesting that Amazon's marketing strategy is ineffective brings up the question: Which company has the greater revenues and the greater profits?


 

I think your arguement boils down to 'I don't do this, thus very few people do this' which is a horribly flawed basis for any sort of point to be made.

 

Yes compared in a vacume side by side an ebook sold on the website is more profitable than one sold in the store.  However the stores are what's profitable about B&N right now.

 

As to the gambling on if someone buys something else in the store, if you attract enough people it becomes less and less of an issue.  Impulse buys actually work in stores, because the displays are created by humans who can reasonably assert that you may actually like the things on said display.  Additionally it's fairly common for people to come in and pick up a hot/cold drink relative to the season from the cafe.

 

And lets not go after red herrings, Amazon obviously has deeper pockets.  However the point was that your idea of only selling through the website has its drawbacks. 

 

 

The Wheel weaves as the Wheel wills, and we are only the thread of the Pattern.
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Mercury_Glitch
Posts: 1,463
Registered: ‎06-07-2011

Re: Buying Nook books at your local B&N


keriflur wrote:
The indies felt like B&N was trying to put them out of business, that they were showing up in their cities and pricing agressively in a way the indies could not with full knowledge of what would happen.  This is the mirror to what Amazon is doing to B&N, and why a lot of indie booksellers and former booksellers won't shed a tear if B&N goes down because of Amazon.  They see it as a comeuppance.  There was, and still is, a lot of anger on the indie side about it.  If you'd like to choose a word other than hostility, go ahead, I won't fight you.

 

Odd since Amazon hurts the Indys just as much, if not more, than it hurts B&N.  This is one case where the addage 'the enemy of my enemy is my friend' doesn't hold true. 

 

I do, on occasion, get flak from stores around here if they find out I work for B&N.  Usually it's because of the growing amount of non-book items we sell.  I'll point out that we don't sell most or any of what the store has out, or has had out for the lifetime of the store (I grew up in this area, so I have some insight here), and ask if they're hiring.  The response is usually an 'Oh.. uh no we're not' to which I point out that I'm sorry for them not hitting the numbers they want, but I need a job. 

 

There's an exception to the items that we sell vs other stores, and it's candles.  But growing up in this area I can say that's a fairly common item that's been available in many stores.  And B&N does not sell them for less than the indys do.

The Wheel weaves as the Wheel wills, and we are only the thread of the Pattern.
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eaglewomanEP
Posts: 209
Registered: ‎11-25-2011

Re: Buying Nook books at your local B&N

The thing I like most about my NOOKs is that I don't have to get out to buy a book. In the baqd weather I don't go out at all, and last year I was housebond for 4 months, and I idn't have to send my kids to the store and hope they got the book I wanted. They could go and get me a gift card then I could get what I wanted with no worries.

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Omnigeek
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Re: Buying Nook books at your local B&N

Wow, this thread sure took an unexpected but interesting turn.  As far as the original topic goes ...

 


AlanNJ wrote:
I am NOT "throwing a damper" on this but B&N is NOT a charitable organization.


Yeah you are and you know it.  You don't have to be a cheerleader but you also don't have to constantly toss in a negative comment everytime the opportunity presents itself -- yet you do.  That's okay, like I said, it wasn't unexpected -- you do that fairly routinely.  <shrug> It's your prerogative to be a Negative Nellie if you want but it's also pretty transparent now and boring to boot.

 

I never said or implied B&N was a charitable organization.  I said I believe I get value from them having a brick-and-mortar presence locally -- and I suspect I'm not the only one, it's one of their advantages over Amazon after all.  Neither the shark nor the pilot fish are charitable but their symbiotic relationship help each other.

 

Corporate sees value in their brick-and-mortar stores through their sales figures so it helps me if they see sales driven at the local brick-and-mortar store.  I don't know why that's so hard for you and deesy58 to understand.  I started the thread for others who also find value in a local presence to remind them that there is a way for them to get their ebooks and still support the local store when it's convenient.

Currently reading: Destiny of the Republic, Angel Fire East, Batman Year One, Appleseed
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deesy58
Posts: 2,486
Registered: ‎01-22-2012
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Re: Buying Nook books at your local B&N


Mercury_Glitch wrote:

I think your arguement boils down to 'I don't do this, thus very few people do this' which is a horribly flawed basis for any sort of point to be made.

 

Yes compared in a vacume side by side an ebook sold on the website is more profitable than one sold in the store.  However the stores are what's profitable about B&N right now.

 

As to the gambling on if someone buys something else in the store, if you attract enough people it becomes less and less of an issue.  Impulse buys actually work in stores, because the displays are created by humans who can reasonably assert that you may actually like the things on said display.  Additionally it's fairly common for people to come in and pick up a hot/cold drink relative to the season from the cafe.

 

And lets not go after red herrings, Amazon obviously has deeper pockets.  However the point was that your idea of only selling through the website has its drawbacks. 

 

 


The common lament on these fora is that Amazon is trying to, and might succeed in, putting B&N out of business.  Amazon does not sell their products through brick-and-mortar stores.  If B&N wishes to compete successfully with Amazon, they must either give up the e-book business and settle for a small and shrinking DTB market, or focus their attention and resources on Web-based marketing. 

 

Just because you are willing to travel to a bookstore in order to purchase an e-book does not mean that a majority of consumers would behave the same way.  I live in a household with four other adults, all of whom read e-books, and none of whom would drive to a B&N bookstore just to purchase an e-book.  The very fact that B&N Management has not attempted to pursue a marketing strategy that focuses on selling e-books at brick-and-mortar stores indicates that, after performing their Market Research and consulting their focus groups, they decided that this was not a viable strategy. 

 

Comparing impulse buying in a store to which consumers already have a good reason to travel with a marketing strategy designed to attract consumers to a store in order to purchase an intangible product in the hope that they might make an impulse purchase would be an example of irresponsible management.  That is nothing more than wishful thinking.  Marketing involves a whole lot more than that. 

 

Do you really believe that beverage sales at the B&N Starbucks really justify the cost of the space they occupy, or is it, perhaps, that it is a convenience designed (brilliantly) to keep customers in the store for longer periods of time, and to make it easier for them to make purchase decisions? 

 

It is not indy bookstores or Borders that B&N is competing with in an effort to survive.  It is Amazon.  That pretty much eliminates any possibility that the issue is a red herring.  Are you suggesting that, because Amazon has deep pockets, B&N should just give up and go out of business? 

 

BTW, I did not say that B&N should sell e-books only through the Web site, but that Web-based sales would be inherently more profitable. 

 

You postulated an idea that you believe B&N should pursue.  I explained why I don't believe that it is a viable idea, and that I don't believe that B&N Management is likely to pursue it.  I could be wrong.  So far, however, the evidence indicates that I am not.   

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bobstro
Posts: 4,041
Registered: ‎01-01-2012

Re: Buying Nook books at your local B&N

keriflur wrote:

There's a troll, it's just not you.  Or toastr. Or RHWright.

 

Hey, I haven't been on all morning!