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mamiesmith
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Is the Presence of the Christ Universal, or Is Christ Unique To Christians?

 
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thewanderingjew
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Re: Is the Presence of the Christ Universal, or Is Christ Unique To Christians?

that is an interesting question. do you mean the belief in Christ as a religious figure or the existence of Christ as a man?
i believe that he definitely existed. what i was taught is that he was a Jew by birth. the degree to which he existed and the history ascribed to him is what is in question, i think. for some he is the messiah, for some he is not. for some he is a prophet and for some simply a man, albeit perhaps a very influential man of great kindness and wisdom. i know that is simplistic but maybe someone else can explain it more fully.

twj

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mamiesmith
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Re: Is the Presence of the Christ Universal, or Is Christ Unique To Christians?

I think most people believe the "Christ" is a man.  What about the Christ as an entity?  What do I mean by that?  Christ as a state of consciousness where one connects with God, and through this connection feels a presence that enables him to dissolve the ills of the world within his thought.  This would make Christ a viable part of the world today--a Comforter.  Mary Baker Eddy, in her book called "Science & Health with Key to the Scriptures" defines Christ as the divine manifestation of God, which comes to the flesh to destroy incarnate error."   If this is true, then anybody can become conscious of Christ at any time and anywhere.  Is this possible?

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thewanderingjew
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Re: Is the Presence of the Christ Universal, or Is Christ Unique To Christians?

you can only believe in this theory of connecting to g-d through christ as an entity, if you believe in christ as the son of g-d. you have elimated a good portion of the population with this theory. i find it easy to believe in him as a man, perhaps unique and very special, but i cannot accept him as my conduit to g-d.
twj

mamiesmith wrote:

(edited by twj).... If this is true, then anybody can become conscious of Christ at any time and anywhere.  Is this possible?


 

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Timbuktu1
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Re: Is the Presence of the Christ Universal, or Is Christ Unique To Christians?

I think what you're describing can come to different people in different ways.  Goodness and truth and love are universal, some call it Christ, others have other names.
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Nadine
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Re: Is the Presence of the Christ Universal, or Is Christ Unique To Christians?

An interesting semantics problem. Are you all referring to Jesus, Jesus referred to as The Christ or the Christ concept? Or are you each talking about something different?

 


Timbuktu1 wrote:
I think what you're describing can come to different people in different ways. Goodness and truth and love are universal, some call it Christ, others have other names.

 

thewanderingjew wrote:
you can only believe in this theory of connecting to g-d through christ as an entity, if you believe in christ as the son of g-d. you have elimated a good portion of the population with this theory. i find it easy to believe in him as a man, perhaps unique and very special, but i cannot accept him as my conduit to g-d.
twj

mamiesmith wrote:

(edited by twj).... If this is true, then anybody can become conscious of Christ at any time and anywhere. Is this possible?


 

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VictoriousMary
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Re: Is the Presence of the Christ Universal, or Is Christ Unique To Christians?

I am very impressed with everyone's reply and sincerity.  To me it is so clear and simply and yet it is such a matter of faith and belief - religion plays a part as well but can be separated from the discussion.

 

We need to set a dictionary of terms so that we can speak the same language before we continue.  We seem to agree that we are discussing the man Jesus Christ who lived at a given point in time.  We seem to agree that though he was born Jewish, when he died, his followers took his teachings and began a new religion which we call Christianity. 

 

Getting into his presence and his universality and uniqueness to any one group is something to move on to from the above if we agree.  Whether he is man and God or God and not man is something that has been battled over and settled by sects among Christians. 

 

As far as presence, I can only say, yes, clearly first because of teachings I have learned but double yes because of my own experience.  I think if you read the New Testament, Paul can tell you clearly from his experience that Christ presence is real for Paul - He lives.  But without experience it is something one must take on faith or not.

 

To the question of universal - do you mean all of humanity?  Again, happenings are recorded of "appearances" after the resurrection all over the world - our planet earth.  Faith allows for belief or not.  Presence today and belief in it is a gift given to some and not to others just as are all things in life.  Some of the world lives in riches while the rest live in hunger, some live in health, others live in sickness, some live with full mental capacities, others struggle to learn.  Gifts are given in differing measures.  Who is to the judge the right or wrong or value of the gift of faith in the presence of Christ over the presence of God or the presence of goodness in our world?

 

Does universal mean the universe as we know it or as it may yet be revealed?  Something larger than our ability to see it from our small solar system or view from our galaxy?  Is Christ for the universe as man, message, or as God?  I think yes but that is unexplored territory for me.  I have not read or heard about it or researched it.  I have only dreamed about in prayer.  It is up for discussion.

 

Victorious Mary
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thewanderingjew
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Re: Is the Presence of the Christ Universal, or Is Christ Unique To Christians?

i interpreted the "presence of christ" as a historic figure, someone who once lived, rather than as a divine being, whose presence is still with us, because i am not a christian. in order to accept christ as a presence, as you say, in the new testament, i would have to believe in the trinity.

it is difficult for people of different religious beliefs to regard him as anything other than a man, although perhaps as i said before, an amazingly kind and special man. if i accepted him on blind faith i would have to accept the new testament, which i accept only as an historic document. if i did accept it as a religious book, i would have to consider myself a christian.

you say: "Whether he is man and God or God and not man"...that seems to assert the universality of the concept of him as a divine being, and reinsert religion into the discussion. it is not a concept accepted universally. to me he is neither man and g-d or god and not man, he is just a special man who once lived who had a gift he shared for the benefit of others.

the discussion of religion is difficult and needs to be open minded, broad and all inclusive. we need to try and accept and/or understand the different approaches to christ. however, it must give you great peace of mind to be so secure in your beliefs.

twj
VictoriousMary wrote: (edited by twj)
I am very impressed with everyone's reply and sincerity.  To me it is so clear and simply and yet it is such a matter of faith and belief - religion plays a part as well but can be separated from the discussion....
.....Whether he is man and God or God and not man is something that has been battled over and settled by sects among Christians.....
As far as presence, I can only say, yes, clearly first because of teachings I have learned but double yes because of my own experience.  I think if you read the New Testament, Paul can tell you clearly from his experience that Christ presence is real for Paul - He lives.  But without experience it is something one must take on faith or not....
....Who is to the judge the right or wrong or value of the gift of faith in the presence of Christ over the presence of God or the presence of goodness in our world?
....I have only dreamed about in prayer.  It is up for discussion.

 


 

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Timbuktu1
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Registered: ‎12-31-2007

Re: Is the Presence of the Christ Universal, or Is Christ Unique To Christians?


Nadine wrote:

An interesting semantics problem. Are you all referring to Jesus, Jesus referred to as The Christ or the Christ concept? Or are you each talking about something different?

 


Timbuktu1 wrote:
I think what you're describing can come to different people in different ways. Goodness and truth and love are universal, some call it Christ, others have other names.

 

thewanderingjew wrote:
you can only believe in this theory of connecting to g-d through christ as an entity, if you believe in christ as the son of g-d. you have elimated a good portion of the population with this theory. i find it easy to believe in him as a man, perhaps unique and very special, but i cannot accept him as my conduit to g-d.
twj

mamiesmith wrote:

(edited by twj).... If this is true, then anybody can become conscious of Christ at any time and anywhere. Is this possible?


 



I believe there is one G-d and people call Him by different names.  I don't debate religion.  If I lose, I lose my faith.  If I win, I've taken away someone else's faith.  

 

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Choisya
Posts: 10,782
Registered: ‎10-26-2006

Re: Is the Presence of the Christ Universal, or Is Christ Unique To Christians? - No/Yes.

...then anybody can become conscious of Christ at any time and anywhere.  Is this possible? 

 

Only if you believe in God and Jesus Christ as divine entities in the first place.  Jews, Muslims, Hindus, Buddhists, Atheists etc do not so believe although a percentage of them may believe that Jesus Christ existed as an historical figure.  But even this is in doubt.   So only 33% of the world populations could theoretically become 'conscious of Christ'.

 

Christ as a divine figure, son of god, an 'entity' etc., is only applicable to Christian belief. Muslims believe that Christ was a prophet but not that he was divine in any way.  Jews may believe that he was an historical personage but not that he was a prophet in any way. Hindus have absorbed him into their pantheon of gods. Buddhists think of him as a 'great person'.

 

 

 

 


mamiesmith wrote:

I think most people believe the "Christ" is a man.  What about the Christ as an entity?  What do I mean by that?  Christ as a state of consciousness where one connects with God, and through this connection feels a presence that enables him to dissolve the ills of the world within his thought.  This would make Christ a viable part of the world today--a Comforter.  Mary Baker Eddy, in her book called "Science & Health with Key to the Scriptures" defines Christ as the divine manifestation of God, which comes to the flesh to destroy incarnate error."   If this is true, then anybody can become conscious of Christ at any time and anywhere.  Is this possible?