Since 1997, you’ve been coming to BarnesandNoble.com to discuss everything from Stephen King to writing to Harry Potter. You’ve made our site more than a place to discover your next book: you’ve made it a community. But like all things internet, BN.com is growing and changing. We've said goodbye to our community message boards—but that doesn’t mean we won’t still be a place for adventurous readers to connect and discover.

Now, you can explore the most exciting new titles (and remember the classics) at the Barnes & Noble Book Blog. Check out conversations with authors like Jeff VanderMeer and Gary Shteyngart at the B&N Review, and browse write-ups of the best in literary fiction. Come to our Facebook page to weigh in on what it means to be a book nerd. Browse digital deals on the NOOK blog, tweet about books with us,or self-publish your latest novella with NOOK Press. And for those of you looking for support for your NOOK, the NOOK Support Forums will still be here.

We will continue to provide you with books that make you turn pages well past midnight, discover new worlds, and reunite with old friends. And we hope that you’ll continue to tell us how you’re doing, what you’re reading, and what books mean to you.

Reply
Distinguished Bibliophile
Mercury_Glitch
Posts: 1,380
Registered: ‎06-07-2011

Re: If you can't create, destroy


5ivedom wrote:

Why is the Issues Board having issues closed as 'By Design'?

 

I thought the discussion all along was to create a board where IMprovements and Suggestions could be added.

 

*****

 

I don't get it. You're seeing the most loyal customers here and they LOVE the Nook and want to improve it.

Why not create a means for ideas to be shared and discussed.

 

*****

 

There just seems to be a lot going on right now.

 

This is what William Lynch said in the Nook Earnings and Sales Press Release (http://money.cnn.com/news/newsfeeds/gigaom/articles/2013_01_03_barnes_nobles_bad_holiday_nook_store_...):

 

“Nook device sales got off to a good start over the Black Friday period, but then fell short of expectations for the balance of holiday,” CEO William Lynch said in a statement. “We are examining the root cause of the December shortfall in sales, and will adjust our strategies accordingly going forward.”

 

 

Well, if he visited the forums he'd know that the 'root cause' he's trying to figure out - that the software was absolutely terrible and not ready for ship.

 

Shelves disappearing.

V2.0.5 erasing content

Browser crashing

Home crashing

 

Lots of people have really good suggestions here and it was clear from the very start that software was causing major issues and that would lead to less word of mouth recommendations and less sales.

 

Also, the issues right now that are being lost, are the ones that are going to be determinants of who wins the Tablet Wars.

 

Dean had a post where he talked about 5-6 hardware things that were not expensive to add but would increase the number of people interested in a Nook significantly.

 

Things like that are getting lost.

 

And then B&N will wonder what the 'root cause' is of less than expected sales. It's all here. You can see it in the forums.

 

You have people who are invested enough to come participate and stick with their Nook even after their shelves get wiped out randomly. And bugs like that.

 

It's a gold mine. Why not mine it?

 


 

Apparently the Issues board is meant only for bugs, not for suggestions.  As to why there is no clear way for users to suggest improvements, I've submited that as a bug, because really it's a glaring bug that should be squashed yesterday.

 

 

The Wheel weaves as the Wheel wills, and we are only the thread of the Pattern.
flyingtoastr
Posts: 3,011
Topics: 55
Kudos: 2,923
Registered: ‎11-11-2009
0 Kudos

Re: Nook Issue Board


Nallia wrote:

I am feeling so burned out by the lack of communication from B&N and the seeming lack of concern about any of our opinions and issues...


 

Ok, I need something cleared up here.

 

I'm not seeing any customer service issue from what Alex posted. In fact, from how I see it, Alex did admirably with Keri's question.

 

She asked if page numbers from the Contents menu on the NST were going to be put back in after being removed in 1.2. Alex responded that they had indeed been removed by design, but passed her feedback up the chain to the people capable of making that change with the hope of having them reinstituted in a future update.

 

So Alex did exactly what everyone has been requesting - he communicated what happened and passed along feedback directly to the developers. Where is the customer service issue? 

 

Is it simply that BN removed a feature that (I would be willing to bet) 99.9% of NOOK owners didn't even realize exsited? As Dean pointed out, that's par for the course. Did you throw away your iPad Nallia when Apple released a new numbered OS that literally did nothing but excise features (iOS6 having no changes outside cutting Google's content completely out)? Or how about the new version of iTunes, or Windows 8, or Amazon issuing firmware updates to the original KF to break root methods? I'm not saying that removing features is a good idea, but chances are that because of Keri's feedback this change is going to be reverted. Isn't that exactly what everyone has been asking for?

 

So please, I need it spelled out for me where the customer service issue with Alex's reply lies. I don't see it.

flyingtoastr
Posts: 3,011
Topics: 55
Kudos: 2,923
Registered: ‎11-11-2009
0 Kudos

Re: Nook Issue Board


Sun_Cat wrote:

If Alex had been as quick to quash off-topic threads there as he just has demonstrated on the new board, it could have worked fine.


It was more of a functional issue.

 

The board system floats reponses with higher kudo counts to the top. The old suggestion board got innundated by the kids at XDA mad that the NT had a locked bootloader, who registered hundreds of dummy accounts and spammed threads and then gave them massive laurel counts. Since those threads stuck to the top of the list, you would have to go back pages and pages to see any new feedback and suggestions other than the spam threads.

 

If BN wants to do a suggestion forum (and they should) they need to hire more moderators. It really is that simple: have someone on (nearly) continuously to consolidate feedback threads and prune duplicates or spam. Even with the current system (I dislike floated posts because it doesn't allow for newer posts to be easily found), just having bodies to maintain the section would be enough. Alex does a good job, but he is just one person.

 

But at this point BN isn't even giving payroll to the stores, so I don't see it happening sadly. But if it does, I'd be happy to moderate (I has experience and you have my # :smileywink:).

Distinguished Bibliophile
Mercury_Glitch
Posts: 1,380
Registered: ‎06-07-2011
0 Kudos

Re: Nook Issue Board


flyingtoastr wrote:

Nallia wrote:

I am feeling so burned out by the lack of communication from B&N and the seeming lack of concern about any of our opinions and issues...


 

Ok, I need something cleared up here.

 

I'm not seeing any customer service issue from what Alex posted. In fact, from how I see it, Alex did admirably with Keri's question.

 

She asked if page numbers from the Contents menu on the NST were going to be put back in after being removed in 1.2. Alex responded that they had indeed been removed by design, but passed her feedback up the chain to the people capable of making that change with the hope of having them reinstituted in a future update.

 

So Alex did exactly what everyone has been requesting - he communicated what happened and passed along feedback directly to the developers. Where is the customer service issue? 

 

Is it simply that BN removed a feature that (I would be willing to bet) 99.9% of NOOK owners didn't even realize exsited? As Dean pointed out, that's par for the course. Did you throw away your iPad Nallia when Apple released a new numbered OS that literally did nothing but excise features (iOS6 having no changes outside cutting Google's content completely out)? Or how about the new version of iTunes, or Windows 8, or Amazon issuing firmware updates to the original KF to break root methods? I'm not saying that removing features is a good idea, but chances are that because of Keri's feedback this change is going to be reverted. Isn't that exactly what everyone has been asking for?

 

So please, I need it spelled out for me where the customer service issue with Alex's reply lies. I don't see it.


 

I was just going to post something in line with this, though I was debating where to post it.

 

I'll be the first to admit I'm not happy with the outcome of Keri's issue post.  I think that the Issues Forum should have been better defined from the start, especially with so much chatter from the folks who are regulars around here (or at least the folks I have seen solving peoples problems here since I started visitng on a regular basis) about a suggestion forum for issues with the Nook.  Issues itself is a broad term, and one that is ill fitting for the actual intent of that forum.  Bug Reports is what that forum should have been called, it's not as 'pretty' as 'issues' but it is by far more accurate.

 

However, that isn't Alex's fault.  He took the issue presented and passed it to those who should see it.  I'm also reasonably sure that Keri wasn't upset with what Alex did, she said as much, but with the mindset of the development team not thinking about how removing a fairly harmless feature would affect their customers. 

 

Customer service, in this case, not being the presentation of the news, but what hte news represented of the source of the news. 

 

 

The Wheel weaves as the Wheel wills, and we are only the thread of the Pattern.
Distinguished Bibliophile
Mercury_Glitch
Posts: 1,380
Registered: ‎06-07-2011
0 Kudos

Re: Nook Issue Board


flyingtoastr wrote:

Sun_Cat wrote:

If Alex had been as quick to quash off-topic threads there as he just has demonstrated on the new board, it could have worked fine.


It was more of a functional issue.

 

The board system floats reponses with higher kudo counts to the top. The old suggestion board got innundated by the kids at XDA mad that the NT had a locked bootloader, who registered hundreds of dummy accounts and spammed threads and then gave them massive laurel counts. Since those threads stuck to the top of the list, you would have to go back pages and pages to see any new feedback and suggestions other than the spam threads.

 

If BN wants to do a suggestion forum (and they should) they need to hire more moderators. It really is that simple: have someone on (nearly) continuously to consolidate feedback threads and prune duplicates or spam. Even with the current system (I dislike floated posts because it doesn't allow for newer posts to be easily found), just having bodies to maintain the section would be enough. Alex does a good job, but he is just one person.

 

But at this point BN isn't even giving payroll to the stores, so I don't see it happening sadly. But if it does, I'd be happy to moderate (I has experience and you have my # :smileywink:).


 


The floating option is but one of many, I believe I have it disabled for all the boards here that I can disable it for, that aside software limitations should never be a reason for not implementing a feature that is such a no brainer as a place for suggestions.  Either make the software do what you want, or find software that does what you want. 

 

 

The Wheel weaves as the Wheel wills, and we are only the thread of the Pattern.
Inspired Bibliophile
deesy58
Posts: 2,486
Registered: ‎01-22-2012
0 Kudos

Re: Nook Issue Board

One is prompted to wonder if Lithium came up with a new forum format, and B&N just couldn't resist the temptation to try it out.  The NOOK Issue Board is, IMO, in a relatively unusable format that is not consistent with the rest of the Barnes and Noble Book Clubs fora.  Perhaps the people who control these boards should familiarize themselves with the "KISS Principle."  Or perhaps the old cliche that "if it ain't broke, don't fix it." 

Nallia
Posts: 4,758
Topics: 125
Kudos: 3,236
Solutions: 4
Registered: ‎02-15-2010

Re: Nook Issue Board

In case it wasn't clear, my post was a general post regarding my feelings in general over the last year, not a demonization of Alex.

 

No, I did not throw my iPad away. But I also was not forced to update it.  I'm still on IOS 5.  But that's beside the point. I'm not emotionally invested in Apple or my iPad and I don't much care about it.  I don't post on Apple forums, I don't read Apple forums. I didn't go out and buy the iPad 3 or 4 or the iPhone 5.  I'll probably go back to Android when I decide to get a new tablet. *shrugs* It just isn't that important to me.

 

The NOOK line was the only product line I ever felt any actual excitement over. Unfortunately, that is no longer the case. I am becoming indifferent to them and to B&N.  Is it Alex's fault? Of course not. Alex does the best he can with what he's given. No, the issues are much higher and much deeper than a single Community Manager who is restricted in what he can say and what help he can give.

 

I'm not going to argue over the fine points or nit pick here. I feel the way I feel and that's that. My feelings are just as valid as those who feel differently. I don't expect or need anyone else to feel the same way, to agree with me, or to validate my feelings.

Inspired Scribe
kamas716
Posts: 1,467
Registered: ‎09-28-2011

Re: If you can't create, destroy


5ivedom wrote:

Why is the Issues Board having issues closed as 'By Design'?

 

I thought the discussion all along was to create a board where IMprovements and Suggestions could be added.

 


 


Personally, I think that if something is detrimental to functionality, it is an issue, whether it's by design or not. 

 

I remember in the '80's when the hospital in town was working with NCR trying to get an integrated Records Management/Billing/Patient Care system up and running.  After several years, Trinity was the only one of three or four hospitals to get the beta system up and running.  About a month later, NCR closed that department due to numerous problems getting the system working.  Their most common response to complaints about something not working properly was "works as designed".  My mother was on the hospitals IT team, and it drove them crazy to point out a problem and simply be told "works as designed".

 

Hopefully, B&N will listen to its customers and restore functionality that they use.  Because, 'works as designed" isn't an acceptable answer for many of us here.

http://www.goodreads.com/kamas716
Correspondent
Wulfraed
Posts: 998
Registered: ‎11-24-2012
0 Kudos

Re: If you can't create, destroy

Unless NCR was selling it as an Off-the-Shelf, Drop-In, system, that hospital software should have gone through a few cycles of requirements reviews with the client hospital(s). These reviews should have determined What the system was to do.

 

There should also have been one or more Design reviews discussing How the system would implement the requirements (ideally with moc-ups of input screens, reports, etc.). 

 

It sounds like the hospital management and NCR together came up with, and approved, requirements and designs that failed to take into account the staff the system was meant for... So yes, "works as designed" was a valid response if the software was doing exactly as the requirements and designs presented to the client team stated. At that point changes require going back to the requirements document, modifying the requirements, getting approval from the client, then designing changes to meet the the new requirements, approval, implementation, internal testing to verify the new version still meets all requirements, and finally putting the software online for the client.

 

The Nook environment is NOT the same. We, the users, did not contract B&N to produce a device to our specifications -- we are not the authority to approve requirements, approve designs, or to demand that changes be made after the device has been released. The Nook IS Off-the-Shelf; we can evaluate it as-is for suitability.

 

Defects/discrepancies (situations in which the device does not behave as documented) should have a means of reporting -- which is what the "Issues" forum appears to address. However, wishlist complaints based solely on the device not behaving the same as a prior device (Nook or competitor) are a different class. Shelves vanishing is a defect -- a documented feature that is malfunctioning. Page numbers on a table-of-contents is a wishlist; the lack of the numbers does not affect the navigation of the book by use of the the ToC links. Having the ADE registration function built into the HD/+ and using drag&drop to laod books is a valid design feature; having said books report "returned to library" is a discrepancy. That computer ADE does not interface with the HD/+ is a wishlist complaint -- and on Adobe, not the Nook.

 

Baron Wulfraed
DeanGibson
Posts: 2,172
Topics: 92
Kudos: 2,244
Solutions: 18
Registered: ‎04-12-2011
0 Kudos

Re: Nook Issue Board


Nallia wrote:....

 

The NOOK line was the only product line I ever felt any actual excitement over. Unfortunately, that is no longer the case. ...


Agree on both counts ( http://bookclubs.barnesandnoble.com/t5/NOOK-Tablet-General-Discussion/I-want-a-divorce/m-p/1356576#M... )

2 Nook HD/8GB + 2 Nook HD+/16GB: B&N 2.2.0 rooted
2 Nook Touch (one Ltd. Ed.): B&N 1.2.1 rooted; Dell Venue 8 Pro: Windows 8.1
2 Nook 1stEd/3G: B&N 1.7.0 rooted.; Acer Iconia A500: Android 4.0.3 rooted;
Nook Color: B&N 1.4.3 rooted; Samsung Galaxy Tab2 (7.0"): Android 4.2.2 rooted
Customer loyalty is earned, not commanded or deserved, and easily lost.
Never suspect intent where incompetence will do.