Since 1997, you’ve been coming to BarnesandNoble.com to discuss everything from Stephen King to writing to Harry Potter. You’ve made our site more than a place to discover your next book: you’ve made it a community. But like all things internet, BN.com is growing and changing. We've said goodbye to our community message boards—but that doesn’t mean we won’t still be a place for adventurous readers to connect and discover.

Now, you can explore the most exciting new titles (and remember the classics) at the Barnes & Noble Book Blog. Check out conversations with authors like Jeff VanderMeer and Gary Shteyngart at the B&N Review, and browse write-ups of the best in literary fiction. Come to our Facebook page to weigh in on what it means to be a book nerd. Browse digital deals on the NOOK blog, tweet about books with us,or self-publish your latest novella with NOOK Press. And for those of you looking for support for your NOOK, the NOOK Support Forums will still be here.

We will continue to provide you with books that make you turn pages well past midnight, discover new worlds, and reunite with old friends. And we hope that you’ll continue to tell us how you’re doing, what you’re reading, and what books mean to you.

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keriflur
Posts: 6,773
Registered: ‎01-05-2010
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Re: Nook future plans article

[ Edited ]

The nook tablet is not a computer*, it is a tablet.  While some folks like to use the tablet to do the same things as a computer, they are actually two separate pieces of technology.

 

Tablets, like phones, have always been considered somewhat disposable. Add to that the newness of the tech - when tech is new, big advancements happen in a shorted period of time, and often the previous hardware cannot run the newest software - and the desire of the makers and retailers to have the product continue to be seen as disposable, and you get an industry standard of only a couple of years of life.

 

The possible (likely) exception to this will be the tablets that run full Win8 (not the NT version) - because the OS is the same as the computer OS, these devices will likely see updates for many years.  These devices cross the bridge between computer and tablet by having hardware that enables them to run the same software as computers.  Android devices do not have that ability.

 

--

*Unless you're using the term "computer" to mean "thing that computes," in which case, I want to know why my caculator hasn't been updated as often as my PC.

Distinguished Bibliophile
bobstro
Posts: 3,947
Registered: ‎01-01-2012

Re: Nook future plans article

I'm landing somewhere in the middle on this one. I think a manufacturer has an obligation to address any bugs and deficiencies in products they sell in a timely manner, but I don't think they're under any obligation to provide "updates" in perpetuity.

 

On the one hand, B&N has a poor history of addressing long-standing problems with their devices (NST/G, NC/T). However, they did release at least some updates and enhancements. While the recent release of NOOK Video to the NC/T line is long (long) overdue, at least they did finally release it. (Though, I suspect, for reasons other than customer goodwill.)

 

Having said that, I don't think B&N is under any obligation to provide enhancements incorporated into new devices into every generation of older devices. The opening of GoPS to the HD/+ but not the NC/T lines is one example. Yes, it' would be very awesome of them to do it, but they're not under any obligation to do so.

 

Personally, I'd give B&N a C+ or maybe a B grade. They have released updates, and many of those provided significant enhancements compared to my first NC. They haven't addressed long-standing issues, but they're not as bad as some companies in this regard.

 

The reality is much as Keri states. While a product is new and hot, you'll find a lot of accessories for it, and updates are likely to come fairly regularly. As it ends its sales life, these all wind down. After EOL, it's largely hit-or-miss. I see this with Motorola, Samsung and a host of other products.

 

There's really only one way to avoid the after-purchase blues: If the product doesn't meet your needs for what you paid for it on day one, DON'T BUY THE PRODUCT.

Inspired Bibliophile
deesy58
Posts: 2,486
Registered: ‎01-22-2012
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Re: Nook future plans article


keriflur wrote:

The nook tablet is not a computer*, it is a tablet.  While some folks like to use the tablet to do the same things as a computer, they are actually two separate pieces of technology.

 

Tablets, like phones, have always been considered somewhat disposable. Add to that the newness of the tech - when tech is new, big advancements happen in a shorted period of time, and often the previous hardware cannot run the newest software - and the desire of the makers and retailers to have the product continue to be seen as disposable, and you get an industry standard of only a couple of years of life.

 

The possible (likely) exception to this will be the tablets that run full Win8 (not the NT version) - because the OS is the same as the computer OS, these devices will likely see updates for many years.  These devices cross the bridge between computer and tablet by having hardware that enables them to run the same software as computers.  Android devices do not have that ability.

 

--

*Unless you're using the term "computer" to mean "thing that computes," in which case, I want to know why my caculator hasn't been updated as often as my PC.


I believe that you are mistaken.  Tablets are, indeed, computers.  Just like notebooks and laptops are computers, even though we refer to them by different names.

 

The reason why your calculator is not a computer is that it does not allow for the storage of programs that change the functions it performs. 

 

Look up the history of the development of the stored-program computer and you will realize that all tablets are computers. 

Distinguished Bibliophile
patgolfneb
Posts: 1,762
Registered: ‎09-10-2011

Re: Nook future plans article

[ Edited ]

keriflur wrote:

The nook tablet is not a computer*, it is a tablet.  While some folks like to use the tablet to do the same things as a computer, they are actually two separate pieces of technology.

 

Tablets, like phones, have always been considered somewhat disposable. Add to that the newness of the tech - when tech is new, big advancements happen in a shorted period of time, and often the previous hardware cannot run the newest software - and the desire of the makers and retailers to have the product continue to be seen as disposable, and you get an industry standard of only a couple of years of life.

 

The possible (likely) exception to this will be the tablets that run full Win8 (not the NT version) - because the OS is the same as the computer OS, these devices will likely see updates for many years.  These devices cross the bridge between computer and tablet by having hardware that enables them to run the same software as computers.  Android devices do not have that ability.

 

--

*Unless you're using the term "computer" to mean "thing that computes," in which case, I want to know why my caculator hasn't been updated as often as my PC.


I disagree with how you define computer.  Using your reasoning only a mainframe could be the minimum for a real computer and pc's relegated to at home toys for amateurs. Your position reminds me of those who insist no truck without a v8 is a true truck because it lacks towing capacity or self published writers aren't real writers.  Definitions and the status quo change over time. Tablets are evolutionary devices not completely new technology. 

 

Realistically each computer is defined by the power and types of uses it satisfies.  Power, peripherals, storage, functionality all make contributions.  Tablets and phones certainly are less capable but they meet the computer needs of many.  A 10 inch tablet can be used for light word processing, e  mails, reading, movies, music, Web surfing etc.  This covers the highest volume uses of home pc's and I believe is sufficient that they should be considered computers.  I don't know your definition of disposable but I  don't consider a phone or tablet with a one year warranty and a 2 to 5 year product life  disposable. 

Distinguished Bibliophile
bobstro
Posts: 3,947
Registered: ‎01-01-2012

Down the semantical trail we go...

[ Edited ]
deesy58 wrote:

The reason why your calculator is not a computer is that it does not allow for the storage of programs that change the functions it performs. 

 

I'm personally hoping Keri replies with a pic of her 1970's vintage Ti-58 programmable calculator. Here's hoping.

 

Inspired Bibliophile
deesy58
Posts: 2,486
Registered: ‎01-22-2012
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Re: Nook future plans article


bobstro wrote:

I'm landing somewhere in the middle on this one. I think a manufacturer has an obligation to address any bugs and deficiencies in products they sell in a timely manner, but I don't think they're under any obligation to provide "updates" in perpetuity.

 

On the one hand, B&N has a poor history of addressing long-standing problems with their devices (NST/G, NC/T). However, they did release at least some updates and enhancements. While the recent release of NOOK Video to the NC/T line is long (long) overdue, at least they did finally release it. (Though, I suspect, for reasons other than customer goodwill.)

 

Having said that, I don't think B&N is under any obligation to provide enhancements incorporated into new devices into every generation of older devices. The opening of GoPS to the HD/+ but not the NC/T lines is one example. Yes, it' would be very awesome of them to do it, but they're not under any obligation to do so.

 

Personally, I'd give B&N a C+ or maybe a B grade. They have released updates, and many of those provided significant enhancements compared to my first NC. They haven't addressed long-standing issues, but they're not as bad as some companies in this regard.

 

The reality is much as Keri states. While a product is new and hot, you'll find a lot of accessories for it, and updates are likely to come fairly regularly. As it ends its sales life, these all wind down. After EOL, it's largely hit-or-miss. I see this with Motorola, Samsung and a host of other products.

 

There's really only one way to avoid the after-purchase blues: If the product doesn't meet your needs for what you paid for it on day one, DON'T BUY THE PRODUCT.


You are changing the scope of the issue.  While it is frequently infeasible to add enhancements to an older product (of any kind), the manufacturer has an obligation to correct defects in the product(s) that have already been sold.  Software is a part of the NOOK product.  Software bugs are defects.  In a NOOK with a primary purpose of reading e-books, any bug in the e-reader software is a MAJOR defect.  It should be corrected as quickly as possible at minimum inconvenience to consumers.  This has not been the case with the e-reader software in NOOK Tablets, as has been discussed ad nauseam on this forum in the past.  Barnes and Noble has (so far) declined to fix it.  Having to power down and restart my NOOK Tablet in order to continue reading an e-book is a major inconvenience, and you can't tell me that B&N is unable to determine what causes these freeze-ups, and to fix them.  (Shades of Windows 95!) 

 

The fact that consumers are following your advice and not buying the product is evident from Barnes and Noble's share prices and financial reports.  How does that help anybody who has already spent their money to purchase a defective product with the (reasonable) expectation that a company as long-established, large, and reputable as Barnes and Noble would certainly update defective software? 

 

There is a big difference between new features/enhancements and defects.  For now, lets just confine the issue to software bugs to keep the discussion focused.  I do not agree that B&N has any obligation to offer new features to older products, especially to offer them for free. 

Distinguished Bibliophile
patgolfneb
Posts: 1,762
Registered: ‎09-10-2011
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Re: Down the semantical trail we go...


bobstro wrote:
deesy58 wrote:

The reason why your calculator is not a computer is that it does not allow for the storage of programs that change the functions it performs. 

 

I'm personally hoping Keri replies with a pic of her 1970's vintage Ti-58 programmable calculator. Here's hoping.

 


Her parents Ti-58? 

Distinguished Bibliophile
bobstro
Posts: 3,947
Registered: ‎01-01-2012
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Defining "disposable"

patgolfneb wrote:

[...]  I don't know your definition of disposable but I  don't consider a phone or tablet with a one year warranty and a 2 to 5 year product life  disposable. 

 

I think of it in terms of user servicable parts. If I can't replace the battery and the battery dies, well... I won't dispose of it, per se, but I'll probably not use it much at that point. I've got a drawer full of those sorts of things.

 

Arguably, up until my latest, my cell phones weren't really in this category since the battery could be replaced, but lack of functionality relegated them to the drawer all the same. Not to say that I couldn't have used them, but I think our cultural expectations have shifted, as you stated, to the point that many consumer devices are "effectively disposable" nowadays.

 

Without getting into the whole "computer" definition game, I think it's pretty clear that manufacturers don't think of tablets as durable items with long life expectancies. I can still get my 10 year old car repaired, and possibly even my 7 year old dryer. I'm going to have a hard time getting my 5 year old Zaurus fixed!

Inspired Bibliophile
deesy58
Posts: 2,486
Registered: ‎01-22-2012
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Re: Down the semantical trail we go...


bobstro wrote:
deesy58 wrote:

The reason why your calculator is not a computer is that it does not allow for the storage of programs that change the functions it performs. 

 

I'm personally hoping Keri replies with a pic of her 1970's vintage Ti-58 programmable calculator. Here's hoping.

 


Well, I owned both a TI-58 and a TI-59.  While they were interesting devices, they were still calculators with limited capability, and not computers,  They were not considered to be computers by anybody that I am aware of, and Texas Instruments did not market them as computers.  keriflur is not old enough to have ever even seen a TI-58, much less own one. 

 

BTW, I did not forget about these products when I composed my post about stored-program computers. 

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bobstro
Posts: 3,947
Registered: ‎01-01-2012
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So what's the temperature down there now?

deesy58 wrote:

bobstro wrote:

I'm landing somewhere in the middle on this one. I think a manufacturer has an obligation to address any bugs and deficiencies in products they sell in a timely manner, but I don't think they're under any obligation to provide "updates" in perpetuity. [...]


You are changing the scope of the issue.  While it is frequently infeasible to add enhancements to an older product (of any kind), the manufacturer has an obligation to correct defects in the product(s) that have already been sold.  Software is a part of the NOOK product.  Software bugs are defects. 

 

Yes, Deesy. I agree with you in the first line of my post!

 

In a NOOK with a primary purpose of reading e-books, any bug in the e-reader software is a MAJOR defect.  It should be corrected as quickly as possible at minimum inconvenience to consumers.  This has not been the case with the e-reader software in NOOK Tablets, as has been discussed ad nauseam on this forum in the past.  Barnes and Noble has (so far) declined to fix it. [...]

 

Erm... yes. I believe I said as much.

 

The fact that consumers are following your advice and not buying the product is evident from Barnes and Noble's share prices and financial reports.  How does that help anybody who has already spent their money to purchase a defective product with the (reasonable) expectation that a company as long-established, large, and reputable as Barnes and Noble would certainly update defective software? 

 

They should fix the long-standing problems. Still. Again. :smileyhappy: Consumers have clearly caught on to the limitations of B&N's past approach. B&N needs to adjust and improve.

 

There is a big difference between new features/enhancements and defects.  For now, lets just confine the issue to software bugs to keep the discussion focused.  I do not agree that B&N has any obligation to offer new features to older products, especially to offer them for free. 

 

Yes, I agree. That's why I pointed out the example of GoPS availability as an example of an enhancement they shouldn't be expected to provide.