correction

[Erato]

The book I referenced is "MIRACLE IN THE ANDES" by Nando Parrado....(not Survival in the Andes))

[bentley]

Cormac McCarthy's life is a complex one. He has given new meaning to the word recluse. It took 20 years for him to complete "Suttree" and drinking was a problem in his life which he successfully gave up.

In the New York Times review (April 19th, 1992) by Richard B. Woodward...the author quotes McCarthy and a review done by The New Yorker.

"Most of my friends from those days are dead," McCarthy says. We are sitting in a bar in Juarez, discussing "Suttree," his longest funniest book, a celebration of the crazies and ne'er-do-wells he knew in Knoxville's dirty bars and poolrooms. McCarthy doesn't drink anymore - he quit 16 years ago in El Paso, with one of his young girlfriends-- and "Suttree" reads like a farewell to that life. "The friends I do have are simply those who quit drinking," he says. "If there is an occupational hazard to writing, it's drinking."

I guess the above sums up some of what was previously posted by Erato.

Some of the other articles that I am reading and have now come across really explain a lot. As I go through some of them I will post some of the nuggets of info with references to them to help others who also may be interested. In the meantime, I have noticed how long some of the sentences are in "Suttree" and verbose. I would call them run on sentences but then again this does seem very much like James Joyce. It was almost like McCarthy was writing with a thesaurus beside him. I think that both he and his writing have come a long way. I know that that statement might not sit well with all of the folks who have loved "Blood Meridian" and "Suttree". There has always been a genius about McCarthy but I think it has become like a fine aged wine.

[bentley]

Here is one of the sentences from "Suttree" page 8 which demonstrates what I have seen in both "Blood Meridian" and "Suttree".

It is a sentence which contains about 40 words and looks to me wordy. You can see the genius in McCarthy right along but I actually think he has become much better. I prefer the style and prose in "The Road".

"Fabled sturgeons with their horny pentagonal bodies, the cupreous and dacebright carp and catfish with their pale and sprueless underbellies, a thick muck shot with broken glass, with bones and rusted tins and bits of crockery reticulate with mudblack crazings."

What a tongue twister of a sentence. He must have been sitting with his dictionary and thesaurus beside him poking away at his Olivetti.

I know that there are tons of diehard fans who loved the earlier books like "Blood Meridian" and "Suttree"..but so far I like the simpler, uncluttered style of "The Road". I think he is mellowing with age like a fine wine. I am reading McCarthy for the first time and I may be seeing more changes in his style because I am reading the novels back to back rather than the novels coming out every 10 years or so. I realize that some took longer and some came out sooner than that timeframe but you get the gist.

[Mariposa]

"Fabled sturgeons with their horny pentagonal bodies, the cupreous and dacebright carp and catfish with their pale and sprueless underbellies, a thick muck shot with broken glass, with bones and rusted tins and bits of crockery reticulate with mudblack crazings."
From early Cormac McCarthy (thanks to Bentley)


The last paragraph of The Road:
Once there were brook trout in the mountains. You could see them standing in the amber current where the white edges of their fins wimpled softly in the flow. They smelled of moss in their hand. Polished muscular and torsional. On their backs were vermiculate patterns that were maps of the world in its becoming. Maps and mazes. Of a thing which could not be put back. Not be made right again. In the deep glens where they lived all things were older than man and they hummed of mystery.

Clearly McCarthy simplified his vocabulary and cut short his sentences.

Now for the interesting part: We all seem to be saying that book ends hopefully because the son who carries the fire survives. But as I was typing the last paragraph I noted something. "Of a thing which could not be put back. Not be made right again."
Does that sound hopeful to you? It seems that the idyllic life of man is gone. "Once there were brook trout..." Past tense. "You could see them..." and no longer can.

Does the ending really resolve the issue of man's survival?
"In the deep glens where they lived (I guess the fish) all things were older than man and they hummed of mystery." Is that the mystery of life in its earliest stages? A rebirth? A new beginning? Or is McCarthy not telling us and that is the "mystery"?

Lizabeth

[bentley]

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Erato wrote:
I am reading FINN (a new release) right now. It's another one that starts with the same scenario....the body floating down the river. It's the story of Huck Finn's alcoholic father. You might want to check it out too and see how it compares to Suttree.

By reading your posts, I am wondering if you think it would be a better idea for me to read Suttree before Blood Meridian?

They are both here on my TBR pile.

I did read somewhere that Suttree was McCarthy's most autobiographical novel, his magnum opus, so to speak and took him the longest to write of all of his novels.

Also, this from one reviewer...."Suttree himself is a lost creature who can find no real hook into this world. He roams about "like a dog" at large. He can touch another human being for a moment, drink beer with a friend, fish, make love, but he has to move on, jump downriver, or hide in the dead, nightmare city. The book comes at us like a horrifying flood. The language licks, batters, wounds--a poetic, troubled rush of debris. It is personal and tough, without that boring neatness and desire for resolution that you can get in any well-made novel. Cormac McCarthy has little mercy to spare, for his characters or himself. His text is broken, beautiful and ugly in spots. Mr. McCarthy won't soothe us with a quiet song. "Suttree" is like a good, long scream in the ear."

So a long scream in the ear or the horrific judge and the kid?

Maybe I should just pick up a good 'Romance' novel for a break???? :-)

Message Edited by Erato on 04-21-200710:37 AM

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Erato..as I am getting further into "Suttree"...the sentences are long..but the characterization is a lot better I think in this book. Also, the subject matter though gruesome at times is not as bad as "Blood Meridian". You begin to feel early on that McCarthy has spent more time on these characterizations and knows these folks better. It seems to me to be more palatable and from what I am gathering gives more of an insight of McCarthy himself. I just read some review which said that 'Blood Meridian" was written during the time that he was going through a divorce from his second wife. Don't know if there was any correlation with the darkness of that novel and real life...but who knows.

I really believe that I may like "Suttree a great deal once I get through it, not that it won't be sad, but I think I will get to know the characters better and the writing seems to draw the reader in.

And this might be interesting to you..The New York Times Book Review stated, "Cormac McCarthy gives us a sense of river life that reads like a doomed Huckleberry Finn." One of the reviewers indicated that McCarthy was an outcast in his own family and had a difficult relationship with his own father who was a successful and well off attorney. So there seems to be a complex father/son relationship here. Funny how these kinds of broken relationships move from generation to generation. Must be hard to break the cycle.

[bentley]

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dianearbus wrote:
"Fabled sturgeons with their horny pentagonal bodies, the cupreous and dacebright carp and catfish with their pale and sprueless underbellies, a thick muck shot with broken glass, with bones and rusted tins and bits of crockery reticulate with mudblack crazings."
From early Cormac McCarthy (thanks to Bentley)


The last paragraph of The Road:
Once there were brook trout in the mountains. You could see them standing in the amber current where the white edges of their fins wimpled softly in the flow. They smelled of moss in their hand. Polished muscular and torsional. On their backs were vermiculate patterns that were maps of the world in its becoming. Maps and mazes. Of a thing which could not be put back. Not be made right again. In the deep glens where they lived all things were older than man and they hummed of mystery.

Clearly McCarthy simplified his vocabulary and cut short his sentences.

Now for the interesting part: We all seem to be saying that book ends hopefully because the son who carries the fire survives. But as I was typing the last paragraph I noted something. "Of a thing which could not be put back. Not be made right again."
Does that sound hopeful to you? It seems that the idyllic life of man is gone. "Once there were brook trout..." Past tense. "You could see them..." and no longer can.

Does the ending really resolve the issue of man's survival?
"In the deep glens where they lived (I guess the fish) all things were older than man and they hummed of mystery." Is that the mystery of life in its earliest stages? A rebirth? A new beginning? Or is McCarthy not telling us and that is the "mystery"?

Lizabeth

---

Lizabeth, you picked out the differences in style as well. I think it is for the better..a lot more polished and absolutely gorgeous prose. I think I might have said before that the boy gives us hope where there is none. I am not sure what the hope signifies..new life, the second coming, a rebirth or a general new beginning, a rekindling of life on earth, big question marks here..I think these are the mysteries which McCarthy does not choose to explain. He leaves it all up to us. I guess that cellular structure still exists, probably amoebas, etc...but how far back did this catastrophe put the human race. I wondered if it wiped out the historical genetic databases for all living things except for man (if they could continue to procreate)and/or morels. What else was still living or growing?

[Paul_Hochman]

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bentley wrote:

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PaulH wrote:
Hi Guys,

Please feel free to post new threads with your questions and comments. That's what these boards are here for. Post away!

As for Suttree or Blood Meridian first...it Really makes no difference. The books are so strikingly different. Some do claim that Ol Sut is a McCarthy-like character. While I'm sure he carries some of Cormac's traits, I'd bet he's a collection of characters McC knew in Knoxville. By the way, a lot of the people in Suttree are modeled after real folks. I haven't read it in awhile, but the rag picker comes to mind.

PaulH

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Is there a book which examines the connection between the characters in Suttree and real folks?

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I'm not aware of any book, Bentley, but take a look at the following link. It'll shed some light on Suttree's haunts.

http://web.utk.edu/~wmorgan/Suttree/suttree.htm

You'll have to cut and paste the link into your browswer. Sorry about that.

Message Edited by PaulH on 04-23-200707:51 AM

[ziki]

Thanks Erato for posting thr questions.
ziki

[bentley]

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PaulH wrote:

---

bentley wrote:

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PaulH wrote:
Hi Guys,

Please feel free to post new threads with your questions and comments. That's what these boards are here for. Post away!

As for Suttree or Blood Meridian first...it Really makes no difference. The books are so strikingly different. Some do claim that Ol Sut is a McCarthy-like character. While I'm sure he carries some of Cormac's traits, I'd bet he's a collection of characters McC knew in Knoxville. By the way, a lot of the people in Suttree are modeled after real folks. I haven't read it in awhile, but the rag picker comes to mind.

PaulH

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Is there a book which examines the connection between the characters in Suttree and real folks?

---

I'm not aware of any book, Bentley, but take a look at the following link. It'll shed some light on Suttree's haunts.

http://web.utk.edu/~wmorgan/Suttree/suttree.htm

You'll have to cut and paste the link into your browser. Sorry about that.

Message Edited by PaulH on 04-23-200707:51 AM

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Thank you PaulH. I already found that url and had posted it here. It is a good one. However, I was looking for any character references to real people that McCarthy knew in Knoxville. The problem with the url stems from the fact that there is a bug which still has not been fixed. The url is truncated because there is a known bug on this site that still is uncorrected which deals with special characters in the url. Maybe you could ask why this has not been corrected as yet and when it might be. Now it has been a long while..lol. And I am used to this problem here and just do a cut and paste anyway.

You are introduced to Suttree and the ragpicker right away as the novel opens. He and Suttree appear to be friends of sorts. To me (the ragpicker) sometimes sounds like the Elijah of the Suttree novel with his references to God, etc. I think that Elijah speaks what a part of McCarthy believes. Since McCarthy was raised outside of Knoxville and was a Catholic, maybe some of his family's beliefs also come into play. His actual name was Charles Jr. and Cormac is the Gaelic equivalent of that name (a nickname that was bestowed actually on his father by his aunts). His father was an eminent lawyer with the TVA. Reviewers have stated that Suttree is strongly autobiographical because of what they called a "paralyzing father-son conflict."

In the same 1992 review, McCarthy himself is quoted as saying, "I was not what they had in mind," (when he was discussing his childhood discord with his parents). He said, "I felt early on I wasn't going to be a respectable citizen. I hated school from the day I set foot in it." According to this same article he had re-established his relationship with his older son who lives or had lived in the 1992 timeframe in Spain. The review also cites him as a man's novelist and a writer's writer. And there were rumors at one time that for a period he lived under an oil derrick!!

I think he has really mellowed as he has gotten older because he is once again giving an interview.

The New York Times interview stated the following:

"McCarthy has never shown interest in a steady job, a trait that seems to have annoyed both of his ex-wives. "We lived in total poverty," says the second, Annie DeLisle, now a restauranteur in Florida. For nearly eight years they lived in a dairy barn outside Knoxville. "We were bathing in the lake," she says with some nostalgia. "Someone would call up and offer him $2,000 to come speak at a university about his books. And he would tell them that everything he had to say was there on the page. So we would eat beans for another week."

To me, "The Road" and its writing style, gorgeous prose and sharp images show how far he has come in terms of his personal growth as a man and as a writer. I really do not see the Oprah interview as selling out. I just think he has come to terms with himself and what he needs to do as an author to bring his writing to a large number of people. I think the dedication of the book to his younger son says a lot as well. None of his novels at least through 1992 has sold more than 5,000 copies in hardcover. I imagine that "The Road" has done better than that or at least the paperback will do or has done extremely well. With more movies on the way, I imagine that Cormac could have a very comfortable retirement if that is what he wanted or not.

The article that I am referencing above could at one time be purchased online from Barnes and Noble.com. It appeared originally in the New York Sunday Times in the magazine section. The title was "Cormac McCarthy's Venomous Fiction". The date of publication was April 19, 1992 (he certainly has come a long way in 15 years) and the byline was Richard B. Woodward.

[bentley]

After posting last, I came across the following stats which bear out what I surmised:

"The Road" is also one of McCarthy's most popular books, spending several weeks on numerous best-seller lists. According to Nielsen BookScan, which tracks about 70 percent of industry sales, it has sold 138,000 copies in hardcover. Thanks to Winfrey, that total should increase by hundreds of thousands. A paperback was not planned until September, but Vintage Books, understandably, is publishing one now, with a massive first printing of 950,000 copies.

This should help the McCarthys do much much better and he deserves it (he really has amazing abilities). The above certainly beats some of the pre-1992 numbers anyways. Not sure how the other books did since then but I would surmise not as well as The Road.

He recently had gotten remarried..someone had put down 2006 (maybe this has had a positive effect).

[Paul_Hochman]

Here's a link to the Goat Man, who makes an appearance in Suttree:

http://thegoatman.com/index.htm

[bentley]

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PaulH wrote:
Here's a link to the Goat Man, who makes an appearance in Suttree:

http://thegoatman.com/index.htm

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Thank you for the above link. McCarthy had some interesting friends!

I don't know if this url will link but this was an article from Metro Pulse/Gibson. It seems to be a good reference article on McCarthy's characters, etc.

http://www.metropulse.com/dir_zine/dir_2001/1109/t_cover.html

[bentley]

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PaulH wrote:
Here's a link to the Goat Man, who makes an appearance in Suttree:

http://thegoatman.com/index.htm

---

I found the following to be quite startling in thinking even about "The Road":

"The Goat Man lead a very colorful life. At age 14, having a reputation as an eccentric, his left his hometown in Iowa for New York. There he married a Spanish maiden and became a target for her knife-tossing act for two years. In the 1930's McCartney hit the road with his wife and son. His wife later tired of the travels and returned home to Iowa while McCartney traveled on with his son.

He was somewhat like a prophet with his long, grey beard and travel-worn clothes, spreading the word of God to any man, woman or child who would listen. From 1930 to 1987, legend has it that he walked 100,000 miles preaching the gospel in 49 of the nations 50 states. If stories are true, he has wrestled a bear, was nearly lynched by the Ku Klux Klan, was once thought dead and taken to the morgue, got ordained as a preacher and got mugged in LA trying to see actress Morgan Fairchild."

[Paul_Hochman]

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bentley wrote:

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PaulH wrote:
Here's a link to the Goat Man, who makes an appearance in Suttree:

http://thegoatman.com/index.htm

---

Thank you for the above link. McCarthy had some interesting friends!

I don't know if this url will link but this was an article from Metro Pulse/Gibson. It seems to be a good reference article on McCarthy's characters, etc.

http://www.metropulse.com/dir_zine/dir_2001/1109/t_cover.html

---

Now that was a terrific article. Thanks for posting it!

[bentley]

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PaulH wrote:

---

bentley wrote:

---

PaulH wrote:
Here's a link to the Goat Man, who makes an appearance in Suttree:

http://thegoatman.com/index.htm

---

Thank you for the above link. McCarthy had some interesting friends!

I don't know if this url will link but this was an article from Metro Pulse/Gibson. It seems to be a good reference article on McCarthy's characters, etc.

http://www.metropulse.com/dir_zine/dir_2001/1109/t_cover.html

---

Now that was a terrific article. Thanks for posting it!

---

No problem..I think I will finish "Suttree" and watch the interview with Oprah. I will still read McCarthy because he has piqued my curiousity; but I am reading other books right now (also commute so I have plenty of time for that). But thank you for leading this discussion; it was good. I feel finally that I know enough to answer some of my questions (about McCarthy and The Road) and most likely the others may never be answered.

What I have found is that folks post in waves so once a new group of B&N readers finish The Road or discover it..I am sure that there will be a new wave of posters. I have relegated myself to the Community Room because I finished The Road quite awhile ago and wanted to branch out and read some of McCarthy's other works. Thank you very very much for your insights.

[Paul_Hochman]

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bentley wrote:

---

PaulH wrote:

---

bentley wrote:

---

PaulH wrote:
Here's a link to the Goat Man, who makes an appearance in Suttree:

http://thegoatman.com/index.htm

---

Thank you for the above link. McCarthy had some interesting friends!

I don't know if this url will link but this was an article from Metro Pulse/Gibson. It seems to be a good reference article on McCarthy's characters, etc.

http://www.metropulse.com/dir_zine/dir_2001/1109/t_cover.html

---

Now that was a terrific article. Thanks for posting it!

---

No problem..I think I will finish "Suttree" and watch the interview with Oprah. I will still read McCarthy because he has piqued my curiousity; but I am reading other books right now (also commute so I have plenty of time for that). But thank you for leading this discussion; it was good. I feel finally that I know enough to answer some of my questions (about McCarthy and The Road) and most likely the others may never be answered.

What I have found is that folks post in waves so once a new group of B&N readers finish The Road or discover it..I am sure that there will be a new wave of posters. I have relegated myself to the Community Room because I finished The Road quite awhile ago and wanted to branch out and read some of McCarthy's other works. Thank you very very much for your insights.

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Thank you, Bentley. Your contributions greatly influenced and enhanced our discussion. Pop back in here and there, as you pointed out, there should be continued, as well as, new activity going forward.

[bentley]

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Thank you, Bentley. Your contributions greatly influenced and enhanced our discussion. Pop back in here and there, as you pointed out, there should be continued, as well as, new activity going forward.

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Absolutely PaulH..enjoyed this immensely. Want to give some new folks the ability to discover McCarthy the way I did. Take care..got Suttree to finish and that should take awhile.

[Erato]

It looks like it......


http://www2.oprah.com/newsletter/obcnews/newsletter_road_20070427.html

[Fozzie]

I don't think the interview is being aired next week. I think that sidebar lists what is going to be on the website for the book next week. I know it will not be on Monday, Tuesday, or Wednesday for sure since I have seen those shows previewed on her show. If I had to guess, I would say the interview will air in early June. If Oprah picks a summer book, she announces it in June.