Obama's message not being aired in my school district, and other assorted issues

[L_Monty]

That's a whole laundry list of damning observations, but I notice it's all unsourced, most of it seems to stem from confirmation bias (e.g. "I notice things I don't like because I don't like them, however, an identical phenomenon of which I approve goes unregistered," see demonizing the opposition, a practice the Bush admin was masterful at—remember the photoshop of an anti-war congressman who'd lost multiple limbs in Vietnam being depicted hanging out with Osama bin Laden?), and some seems to come from misunderstandings (the use of "Mr." by media outlets conforms to internal style sheet standards established by every journalistic organ; The Economist and the NYT, for instance, call everyone Mr.). I was going to go through it line by line, but the dark looming implications of a "cult of personality" followed by

---

thewanderingjew wrote: Again, I refer to Martin Neimoller and I paraphrase, " When they came for me, there was no one left to care". There are many policies which start out as innocuous but have hidden agendas...

---

this invocation of a famous quote about the Nazis makes me feel like the only real reply to this is to say "Godwin" and then bail out of the plane and pull the cord.

[L_Monty]

The above aside, I pulled my kids out of school on the day of the speech. The last thing I needed after they woke up and showered in water tested by a government-designated facility and inspected by government officials according to Federal Clean Water standards, ate food whose quality was standardized by the FDA, walked out the door of a house whose safety was determined by a county/state inspector and stood by our federal mailbox waiting for the county school bus to drive them across city-planned, -engineered and -paid-for roads to a county-funded public school was to have them sit in a classroom and get indoctrinated into "socialism."

[RTA]

---

thewanderingjew wrote:

I do not respond because you usually respond to any response with questions that often go in circles. An unbiased media allows all sides to be aired so intelligent judgments can be made.

---

 In case you didn't see, TWJ, I've responded here.

[Psychee]

---

thewanderingjew wrote, in part:

Yes they should have referred to the office of the President, rather than the man who seems to be more and more overshadowing the office of the President and making it all about him. In my memory, I cannot remember another President who has had so much publicity. We are bombarded by the Obama name constantly. ..

---

Getting us back to the topic of the school message...

It is true that Obama has been afforded "rock star" status both domestically and internationally.  It is also true that this is an unusual thing -- the last time it happened, I think, was with Kennedy, the first Roman Catholic.  The fact that both these men are / were young and handsome and personable and intelligent, as well as being "firsts" to break through pre-existing biases helps explain the media's adoration of them.

It is sad that you feel disenfranchised by that, though.   At the very least, I would hope that you would consider the benefits of having a President with such international presence as something you personally might benefit from;  there still exists the potential for him to successfully use this to bring about a more peaceful world.

And that same "rock star status" is something that might very well work to get across the message to all the schoolchildren who are potential drop-outs, the majority of which are black and Hispanic.   When kids drop out of school, we all suffer.  They are more likely to commit crimes, more likely to cost taxpayers in keeping them in jails and very likely to affect other children.  They truly need to hear the voice of a person they respect saying the same things that their teachers and parents are telling them, and Obama is the perfect person for that job.  (Not that this was the only group who benefitted from the speech -- I think most kids who were untainted by their parents' politics should have found the speech inspiring).

There were plenty of intelligent Republicans who understood this and did NOT use this speech as a forum to attack Obama and thus undermine his attempts to do something for our kids that any reasonable person, no matter what side of the aisle they are on, should agree is a GOOD thing.   One of my own Senators, for example,  is a Republican, he has issues with the Obama Health Plan, but he never once tried to further that agenda by bringing it over into this school speech arena.  In fact, he was totally supportive of the speech, knowing that the kids in his constituency needed to hear it and would benefit from it.    I think that shows integrity... I just wish that he was the norm.  

[Mom_of_4]

It was shown in my district today. I kept my 6yr old home (seriously, who expects a First Grader to sit through that, and then be exposed to Obama is helping us how questions?)

My 7th grader saw it last night at home (because instead of complaining it wasn't shown, I dvr'd it. I would have taped it if I didnt own a dvr).

anyways...

They showed it in school today...no discussion afterwards. Which is fine by me. The US Dept of Ed violated US Code 20 Section 3403 by sending out classroom curriculum. Which is why people got upset to begin with. Obama should not have allowed that to happen....since it was his speech, and ultimately his responsiblility. And the hoopla over it happening before the text was even provided? Confirmed. Have people seen the news reports over Obama touting his healthcare reform to the students?

BTW: Not only was there an uproar over Bush in '91 doing this, but there were investigations, hearings, and testimonies on Capitol Hill over it.

[Melissa_W Moderator]

All this hype/anti-hype/complaining/etc. is amusing to someone who had to sit through 10+ minutes of Channel One programming everyday from about 6th grade on through graduation (I remember there was a particularly rosy glow given to the coverage of the First Iraq War).

Channel One is still up and running.  And usually has nothing to do with the current day's lessons.  And is full of commercials and silly quizzes.

Next to that major time suck a ten minute address from the President of the United States about staying in school and getting an education is minimal in the extreme.

[Psychee]

---

Mom_of_4 wrote, in part:

The US Dept of Ed violated US Code 20 Section 3403 by sending out classroom curriculum.  

---

With due respect for your strong feelings about the matter, I feel I need to say that the Dept. Of Ed offering suggested activities for the classroom in no way violates any law.   If the federal government had declared it illegal to NOT carry out the suggested activites, that would be a violation, but this is not what happened.   They merely offered talking points to the teachers, to be used or not used, adapted or used unchanged, as a gift to educators, consistent with what publishers offer with their own educational materials.  Ultimately, these things are all up to teachers and the school boards which regulate them, and they typically choose their curriculums from among the myriad of suggestions that are so offered.

The question "How would you help Obama make schools better" was deleted from the suggested activities before Labor Day, in response to the voiced concerns about it.

As for the little that was said about health care in a classroom, Obama did not bring up the subject.  A child in the classroom asked him why can't America have universal health care like other countries and what is he doing about that, and I had the impression that he responded as diplomatically as he could to the question,  without reference to the political broohaha that such a question would have raised in an adult setting.

By the way, I just noticed that you are a new user...  WELCOME to B & N book clubs!

[Mom_of_4]

Actually, the text was "How can you help the President" and due to the voiced concerns over the violated US Code, it was pulled. Obama, in fact, did bring up the healthcare subject first, and then the little 9th grader asked his 36 countries question.

The main problem was that the US Dept of Ed sent the curriculum to the schools directly, and totally circumvented the States Which is where cirruculum decision lies. It was not merely talking points. It was a class curriculum.

[Mom_of_4]

And thanks for the welcome! I'm actually an oldtimer. Been here for a bit just lost all my info and have 4 kids (hence my new name) and have had no time to come back!

Sometimes if I don't reply right away, it's because one of those 4.

[L_Monty]

---

Mom_of_4 wrote: They showed it in school today...no discussion afterwards. Which is fine by me. The US Dept of Ed violated US Code 20 Section 3403 by sending out classroom curriculum. Which is why people got upset to begin with.

---

Not to diminish your point, Mo4 (and welcome), but this explanation reads like what happens when one has a conclusion in search of a fact. Which is not to say that's what you're doing, at all, but rather that this point of legalese emerged in the discourse quite a bit after the dominant theme of Indoctrination and Brainwashing made its rounds in the punditocracy's outrageousphere. To be honest, I simply have no understanding of US DoEd. code and was happy to just accord all "rightness" to you on this one until Psychee replied with another interpretation; and I am, at this point, happy to sit back and watch what happens next from an interpretation-of-legalese standpoint.

In any event, my endlessly wandering point is that, while this seems like a very reasonable objection to make, the outburst of people being upset to begin with was pretty hysterical "Demmycrat!" "NO SOCIALEST" "THE THREE Rs WILL BECOME READING, (W)RITING AND RIGID ADHERENCE TO MARXISM-LENINISM" and the Helen Lovejoyesque won't-someone-please-think-of-the-children refrain before it settled down to something like the sober procedural argument you're advancing.

[Psychee]

I'll not quibble with you about the health care question -- I saw it last night and I don't recall Obama bringing up the issue initially -- I just recall that the child had his question written down and he read it off his paper, indicating that he had pre-planned the question.

But insofar as the Dept. Of Education sending curriculum suggestions directly to schools, they do this all the time, just like the publishers.  There was no command from on high that anyone had to use the suggestions.  They were not circumventing any States' rights or duties.  They saved states and their school boards copying and postage costs by sending them directly to the schools.

You might check with your local school to find out what other curriculum materials they regularly receive from the Dept. of Education -- such as posters about washing hands to prevent getting the flu, and so forth.  It's all part of their job.

[Psychee]

---

Mom_of_4 wrote:

And thanks for the welcome! I'm actually an oldtimer. Been here for a bit just lost all my info and have 4 kids (hence my new name) and have had no time to come back!

Sometimes if I don't reply right away, it's because one of those 4.

---

Well, then, welcome back!  Don't worry about blinking in and out of conversations here to pay attention to your kids.  No one here takes attendance! 

[Jon_B]

Just so we're all on the same page, this is the actual code in question - The part relevent to this particular discussion is primarily section (b):

(a) Rights of local governments and educational institutions It is the intention of the Congress in the establishment of the Department to protect the rights of State and local governments and public and private educational institutions in the areas of educational policies and administration of programs and to strengthen and improve the control of such governments and institutions over their own educational programs and policies.

The establishment of the Department of Education shall not increase the authority of the Federal Government over education or diminish the responsibility for education which is reserved to the States and the local school systems and other instrumentalities of the States. (b) Curriculum, administration, and personnel; library resources No provision of a program administered by the Secretary or by any other officer of the Department shall be construed to authorize the Secretary or any such officer to exercise any direction, supervision, or control over the curriculum, program of instruction, administration, or personnel of any educational institution, school, or school system, over any accrediting agency or association, or over the selection or content of library resources, textbooks, or other instructional materials by any educational institution or school system, except to the extent authorized by law. (c) Funding under pre-existing programs The Secretary shall not, during the period within eight months after May 4, 1980, take any action to withhold, suspend, or terminate funds under any program transferred by this chapter by reason of the failure of any State to comply with any applicable law requiring the administration of such a program through a single organizational unit.

[Mom_of_4]

Personally I felt the speech was fine. It was everything I always impress on my kids. And kudo's for it. I just had a hard time overcoming the the US circumventing our state and sending teaching materials directly to our school, which it didnt use. Because of the fact it didnt come down from the state. That barrier is put in place for a reason. So that no one President can impart his own ideologue on the teaching of our children.  But the fact I had to call to make sure, is something we, as American Citizens, have never had to do before. Some may not feel it's a big deal....at this point in time. But what about when it goes against their own idealogue? Me, myself, don't want it happening under anyone's watch. Kind of like the Patriot Act. I don't want that under anyone's watch. Gives one too much power. But this, is worse. It's with our kids. If we allow it to happen even  once... it opens the door to allow it again.

[Mom_of_4]

It's not even US Dept of Ed Code.....it's US Code....Something all Presidents should be aware of.

The main problem came from the media. Most media reported  this as "Right Wingers against Obama". The same media that labeled any dissenters as Terrorists, evil, hate mongers, racists, teabaggers, unamerican, unpatriotic, on the same level as the 9/11 terrorists etc etc....with anything that had to do with anything that didnt agree with Obama. It's like icing on the cake. They turned it into "The racists against Obama talking to children" when the problem was really the Feds sending classroom workbooks to the teachers directly.  Telling them what to teach our kids before, during and after the President's speech.  I think history can teach us the evils behind allowing that. But not one of those media outlets reported on the investigations, hearings, testimonies, and legal actions taken against Bush the First when he did it. The hypocrisy is amazing right now, and I for one, am sick of it. We are one Country. We are all part of this amazing country we call the United States of America, and enjoy freedoms most in this world can't even imagine. Instead of attacking citizens, just for not agreeing.......we should all really look  and find the bigger picture here. For someone who was touted as the Great Uniter, I don't see him doing much to unite us.

[Psychee]

Mom_of_4,  I don't understand why you still seem to think that sending out curriculum suggestions in any way directs, supervises, or controls what the schools do with those suggestions.   Were you under the impression that the schools HAD to take those suggestions?   Out of fear of loss of school funding perhaps? 

This law blocks the federal government from making a law requiring, for example, that every child in the land should be taught about the Big Bang or evolution theory.  They can't do it.  That doesn't stop them from suggesting or recommending it, but ultimately, the decision about what is taught in schools is up to the states, and in some states, entirely up to the local school boards, who also are responsible for making laws about school's responsibilities.  That is what this law is about.

They did not "tell the schools what to teach the kids".  They suggested talking points, activities, and so forth.   Have you read them?  (Up above somewhere I've embedded a link to the one they prepared for the older kids)  Was there anything in that document which seemed to you to be inappropriate and furthering a political agenda?   If you find something, let us know, as it would be useful and fun to discuss.

[Psychee]

---

Mom_of_4 wrote, in part:

The main problem came from the media. Most media reported  this as "Right Wingers against Obama". The same media that labeled any dissenters as Terrorists, evil, hate mongers, racists, teabaggers, unamerican, unpatriotic, on the same level as the 9/11 terrorists etc etc....with anything that had to do with anything that didnt agree with Obama...

---

I share your dismay about this.  Rachel Maddow and Keith Olbermann's caustic sarcasm and smug smiles do nothing positive for my bloodpressure.  But neither does Rush Limbaugh's twisting of facts to suit his own agenda.   All of these people have polarizing viewoints and they feed off each other, competing for viewers.  Personally, I think the first two appeal most to people who like to fight and put other people down.  But Rush scares me, as he has many listeners who haven't a clue about the real facts about things and just trust him completely to have their needs as his first priority, like a preacher. 

I think it would be very hard for any President to unite a land with such divisive forces operating against him.   It must be like patiently trying to give wholesome advice in a theatre of combatants.

[Psychee]

Thanks for posting the full text of the law, Jon_B.   It was helpful!

[Mom_of_4]

Your own post, Psychee, proves my point....they circumvented the States and local boards. The full Code clearly states that the Feds are not allowed to do that. The Code clearly states the Feds are not allowed to make and distribute curriculum. That is up to the States and local education systems. Unfortunately, the Feds spent time and ultimately money on making a curriculum that they then sent to indivudual school's principals, instead of the States and local boards themselves.

In fact I have read the attached school workplan, before they scrubbed the DOE site. I saved the originals. I even confirmed w/the schools in my district if they would be using said curriculum.  Since they were not, and sticking to approved State Curriculum, I, myself, had no problems with the speech itself. Let me ask: is the curriculum what they meant by  "unprecedented", when they first reported the President would be making an unprecedented speech? Considering the speech itself was not unprecedented, as both Reagan and H.W Bush made their own speeches to the students. Reagan's being more political than anyone elses. And Bush's with ended with a debacle. What was so originally "unprecedented"? Why does the new Administration feel our teachers are so dumbed down that they need to supply they own "suggestions" as to what to teach our children?

I'm utterly confused why people don't have a problem with this. Especially with history teaching us that Federal run gov't  led education curriculums aren't always for the best.

[Mom_of_4]

Psychee...I share your opinon on Rush, Maddow and Olbermann.