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L_Monty
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Re: The Ayatollah Begs to Differ: Books about Mohammed.


masoudA wrote:

There are Rumors that Dashti wrote the book - but the fact remians the book was always published with no author's name.  Besides - Dashti died years prior to the 1979 revolution and could not have endorsed or approved publication of the book.  The wiki link you posted is a good proof to what I have been saying - of the two links to the English translation of the book one is not avaialable "Due to copyrights issues" !! and the other one the translator dod not even dare to leave a name !!!



I'm sorry. I'm not sure I understand. What have you been saying that this is proof of? It's not at all difficult to get a copy of the book. Just a quick google for "'23 Years' 'Ali Dashti' buy book" turns up these links. For example, of those links, one is a free PDF copy in English; another is a free PDF copy in Arabic. Also, I'm not really sure if it matters a whole lot one way or the other, but Ali Dashti died in 1982, three years after the revolution.



There are many reasons why the Persian/Iranian history and culture is undermined - here are 2 of them:

 

1- Much of our archeological artifacts reside in European museums many of which in England.   By claiming they are tied to the mesopotemians or sumerians - they can be kept in Europe, since such entities no longer exist.



I don't really understand what you're saying here either. Are you claiming that Persian history is being perverted or destroyed by western museums in order to keep artifacts? If that's the case, what "Sumerian" or "Mesopotamian" artifacts that are actually Persian are being lied about? I ask, because if that's what you're getting at, that's a pretty strong claim to make.
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Choisya
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Re: The Ayatollah Begs to Differ: Book on Iran

[ Edited ]

Jon wrote: 

...if you can recommend any books that would offer a good counter to the books that we've already been discussing here, please do post about them!   We would love to talk about any other titles related to Iran as well and if there are some books that are more in line with your perspective it would be a great comparison.

 

 

I recommended this BBC interview with Michael Axworthy and his book about Iran elsewhere Jon but thought I would post here too. Here is a little biog and a review.

 

There is also Axworthy's book 'The Sword of Persia - Nader Shah, from Tribal Warrior to Conquering Tyrant'' online. 

 

 

Message Edited by Choisya on 01-26-2009 06:30 PM
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Choisya
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Re: The Ayatollah Begs to Differ: Praying in offices.

but some of them insist of expanding their way of life and forcing it upon others.

 

Now that is a different matter. I do not agree with anyone forcing their way of life upon another be it religious or otherwise.  Concessions need to be made in a multi-cultural, multi-faith society but they must not be allowed to get out of hand, like the introduction of Sharia law for instance, which some groups are trying to promote.   But I do not think we should get too neurotic about this because Christians have been evangelising and promoting a way of life all over the world for centuries and we all survived that, even the oppressive parts of it.  

 

Yes, Greet Wilders death was shameful and a good example of what religious intolerance can lead to:smileysad:

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 


masoudA wrote:

Political Correctness can prove to be devastating.    What happened to Greet Wilders was shameful - since all he said was nothing but the truth.

There are no superior races - but nobody can deny existance of inferior cultures around us.  I see nothing wrong with co-existing with those who wish to live within the primitive ways of inferior cultures - but some of them insist of expanding their way of life and forcing it upon others. 


 

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Everyman
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Re: The Ayatollah Begs to Differ: Praying in offices.

[ Edited ]

Now that is a different matter. I do not agree with anyone forcing their way of life upon another be it religious or otherwise.

 

That needs a bit of clarification.   You and I and everyone else here force our way of life on others all the time.  That's what the process of law is -- forcing one way of life onto a person who may not want to live that way.   (If they want to live the way the law requires, then the law is not needed for them.  Law is only needed for those people who don't naturally want to do what the law requires of them.)

 

I know I would be, and I suspect you would be, very unhappy in a world where we couldn't force certain lifestyles (e.g. you shall not burgle other people's houses) on people who may want to live that way (for whom burgling is what the way they would prefer to live.)

 

We are so accustomed to the "rule of law" that we don't stop to think that it's simply a matter of part of the people (a part variously chosen depending on the form of government) forcing others to live they way they want them to.  Whether it be statute law, the Common Law of the British system, the Civil Law of much of Europe, Sharia, tribal law, family rules, or whatever, in every case it is the people with the power forcing their will on the people without the power. 


Choisya wrote:

but some of them insist of expanding their way of life and forcing it upon others.

 

Now that is a different matter. I do not agree with anyone forcing their way of life upon another be it religious or otherwise.  Concessions need to be made in a multi-cultural, multi-faith society but they must not be allowed to get out of hand, like the introduction of Sharia law for instance, which some groups are trying to promote.   But I do not think we should get too neurotic about this because Christians have been evangelising and promoting a way of life all over the world for centuries and we all survived that, even the oppressive parts of it.  

 

Yes, Greet Wilders death was shameful and a good example of what religious intolerance can lead to:smileysad:

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 


masoudA wrote:

Political Correctness can prove to be devastating.    What happened to Greet Wilders was shameful - since all he said was nothing but the truth.

There are no superior races - but nobody can deny existance of inferior cultures around us.  I see nothing wrong with co-existing with those who wish to live within the primitive ways of inferior cultures - but some of them insist of expanding their way of life and forcing it upon others. 


 


 

 

Message Edited by Everyman on 01-26-2009 06:50 PM
_______________
I think, therefore I drive people nuts.
UN
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UN
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Re: The Ayatollah Begs to Differ: Praying in offices.

Below is an excellent book written by a Uni professor (who was my prof in Iran), and shows the true context of Iranian politics by analysing the life of Shah:

 

http://iranianfreedom.wordpress.com/2009/01/25/jottings-on-gholam-reza-afkhamis-the-life-and-times-o...-

 

 

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thewanderingjew
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Re: The Ayatollah Begs to Differ: Praying in offices.

I am curious. Is this room available to all religions or just Christians and Muslims?
twj 

Choisya wrote: edited by twj... 

I do not know what is happening in Iran or in the US but most British employers with a certain number of Muslim employees are obliged by law to provide prayer rooms where Muslims or Christians can go to pray, so I see nothing sinister about the Iranian government or any other organisation doing it. .....edited by twj


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thewanderingjew
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Re: The Ayatollah Begs to Differ: Books about Mohammed.

I think we need to read books that also tell the truth, both sides, good and bad, if we are ever to understand each other. Telling the truth does not spread hate, it spreads knowledge.
twj


Choisya wrote: edited by twj...
But do you think it does any good at all to read books which are strongly critical and defamatory of Mohammed, who died hundreds of years ago, to help us solve the problems of the Middle East?  Do you suppose that Christians would like us to discuss defamatory books about Jesus Christ and the Bible? 
To solve the problems of the Middle East we need to read books which look forward with hope, not backward with hate.  'Love and tolerance', as you posted elsewhere, is the key.

 

 

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Choisya
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Re: The Ayatollah Begs to Differ: Books about Mohammed.

This begs the question of 'what is truth'.  How one person assesses the life of Mohammed when so little evidence exists, will be very different to how another person assesses it.  You have complained about articles/books which show prejudice against Jews; these are books which show prejudice against Muslims.  If the intention is to defame it will spread hate, whether it adds to knowledge or not.  It could be argued that pornography adds to knowledge but we do not usuallly recommend reading it. 

 

I am not suggesting that we should not read such books, or that they should not be printed. I am just suggesting that they do not help us solve the problems that we face in the Middle East today, which was the question we were discussing here.  Masoud had been saying that the Persian culture was about 'love and tolerance' and that the world needs more of it.  These books, and others like them, be they about Muslims, Jews or Christians, do not spread love and tolerance or peace and understanding.  

 

 

 


thewanderingjew wrote:

I think we need to read books that also tell the truth, both sides, good and bad, if we are ever to understand each other. Telling the truth does not spread hate, it spreads knowledge.
twj


Choisya wrote: edited by twj...
But do you think it does any good at all to read books which are strongly critical and defamatory of Mohammed, who died hundreds of years ago, to help us solve the problems of the Middle East?  Do you suppose that Christians would like us to discuss defamatory books about Jesus Christ and the Bible? 
To solve the problems of the Middle East we need to read books which look forward with hope, not backward with hate.  'Love and tolerance', as you posted elsewhere, is the key.

 

 


 

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Choisya
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Re: The Ayatollah Begs to Differ: Praying in offices.

Yes, such rooms are available to all and some employers set different places aside for different religions, depending upon the demand. Sorry that I did not mention Buddhists, Hindus, Jews  etc. etc.   I was answering Masoud's comment about prayer rooms for Muslims in Iran. However, as it is only Muslims who need to prostrate themselves and face Mecca, it is generally Muslims (and mostly Sunnis) who take advantage of the space.  Other faiths are able to pray in other places more easily I suppose. 

 

 

 

 


thewanderingjew wrote:

I am curious. Is this room available to all religions or just Christians and Muslims?
twj 

Choisya wrote: edited by twj... 

I do not know what is happening in Iran or in the US but most British employers with a certain number of Muslim employees are obliged by law to provide prayer rooms where Muslims or Christians can go to pray, so I see nothing sinister about the Iranian government or any other organisation doing it. .....edited by twj



 

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Re: The Ayatollah Begs to Differ: Life of the Shah.

[ Edited ]

Thanks a lot UN.  That is a very interesting article.  I was particularly struck by the following paragraph and its last sentence:

 

'Afkhami does not deny the fact that the CIA and SIS played a role in the coup [against the Shah]; however, he demonstrates that the extent of American and British involvement in the affair was greatly exaggerated in the accounts disclosed by American officials themselves (especially Kermit Roosevelt). These dubious first person accounts in turn serve as the sole sources of information in the narratives offered by liberal historians like Stephen Kinzer. Further distorting perceptions of the coup, Afkhami argues, was many Iranians’ false conviction that the American and British possessed almost “occult powers.” (This debilitating sense of national inferiority in relation to the all-powerful, conspiratorial West – what I would call the “Uncle Napoleon Complex” – continues to prevent Iranians from objectively assessing their place in the world and taking ownership of their collective destinies.)'

 

 


UN wrote:

Below is an excellent book written by a Uni professor (who was my prof in Iran), and shows the true context of Iranian politics by analysing the life of Shah:

 

http://iranianfreedom.wordpress.com/2009/01/25/jottings-on-gholam-reza-afkhamis-the-life-and-times-o...-

 

 


 

Message Edited by Choisya on 01-27-2009 04:42 AM
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Timbuktu2
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Re: The Ayatollah Begs to Differ: Life of the Shah.

This is a side issue but something I think is worth pointing out.  The word "tolerance" bothers me.  It implies a superior "tolerating" an inferior.  I know it's supposedly used to demonstrate inclusiveness and egalitarianism but I believe it does just the opposite. 

 

When the US was being founded a rabbi thanked George Washington for his "tolerance" of his people.  Washington told the rabbi that "tolerance" had nothing to do with it.  He was an equal citizen.  This was a new kind of country where all men were equal under the law, so no one was "tolerating" anyone else.  Sometimes the words we use express unconscious attitude.

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Re: The Ayatollah Begs to Differ: Praying in offices.

Hi C, I can clearly see ur point when u talk about not agreeing with any culture imposing itself to other otherwise what would be the difference with the IR. This is the first thing that comes to the mind of a rational human being. However MasoudA is saying it to a wrong audience. People here are not the same as those western politicians who practically prescribe and design cultural changes in other countries. Masoud's frank words can only be understood by them not by good citizens; he said something that is irrational but 'correct'. Please understand that I am not defending MasoudA as he has his own mind and will. I am only clarifying what he says that is not understandable by western rationale. This is his conclusion:

 

"There are no superior races - but nobody can deny existance of inferior cultures around us.  I see nothing wrong with co-existing with those who wish to live within the primitive ways of inferior cultures - but some of them insist of expanding their way of life and forcing it upon others. "

 

The context of his above belief is his personal experience of being forced to fly out of his homeland, to be embarrassed and threathened to even take his daughter to Iran to show the socalled 'progress' to her and the rest of it (I know MasoudA for a long time now but only through the Internet forums). Iranians have witnessed monthly regular payment coming from the British embassy to every major Ayatollah in every city. I only give you ONE example because my father  was also involved in it:

 

Friday Emaam of a small city in Azarbayjaan (never mind the name) was a british mersenary. He had few sons and one daughter; none of them except for one, was intelligent but they all were getting high positions in Iran because both Soviet and British embassies had their share of mersenaries to nominate for the job. A complicated arrangement but true (u should trust me on this otherwise I can never prove it to you). One of his sons who was also a bit abnormal and stupid went as far as being the head of Iran's parliament and his only education was Islamic education. It was in 1960s. The smartest one managed to get free educational fund from the UK and finished Oxford with a BA in political science and went as high as being the young shah's prime minister, and after his term became ambassador to Italy. You may wonder what the Emaam jomeh's task was: To say certain things at certain times during the friday prayer meeting. With this background, can MasoudA or me or many other Iranians believe that things are as rosy and glossy as you in the west experiencing? 

I just wanted to clarify a small part of my experience as I am coming from a politician family close to that Emaam Jomeh and have been listening to many of my dad's conversations with others. Fortunately my dad was not as high ranking to be that bad loool and he knew all these because he was a close relative of that family; a very close relative.

 

I suppose Masoud is talking to those politicians who are directly involved in the projects that I just mentioned above in the ME in general and in Iran in particular. So, pls be soft on him because his strange claims cannot stand your western rationality. 

  

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Re: The Ayatollah Begs to Differ: Praying in offices.

Forgive my ignorance.  Why are the British paying the Imams?  What is this tie?  Oil?
UN
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UN
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Re: The Ayatollah Begs to Differ: Life of the Shah.

[ Edited ]

C quoted from the article:

 

'Afkhami does not deny the fact that the CIA and SIS played a role in the coup [against the Shah]; however, he demonstrates that the extent of American and British involvement in the affair was greatly exaggerated in the accounts disclosed by American officials themselves (especially Kermit Roosevelt). These dubious first person accounts in turn serve as the sole sources of information in the narratives offered by liberal historians like Stephen Kinzer. Further distorting perceptions of the coup, Afkhami argues, was many Iranians’ false conviction that the American and British possessed almost “occult powers.” (This debilitating sense of national inferiority in relation to the all-powerful, conspiratorial West – what I would call the “Uncle Napoleon Complex” – continues to prevent Iranians from objectively assessing their place in the world and taking ownership of their collective destinies.)'

 

u r welcome C, yes I also believe in this complex of Iranians. Sometimes we go too far. Foreign influence of Iran's politics was implemented through their Iranian mersenaries not by themelves. America has had a much more recnt influence than UK and Soviets, and for all of them, they always did it indirectly not like ordinary Iranians believing that they actually used to run this or that ministery in Iran. For example, their influence on Shah (in terms of Shah basically believed US as his friend) and when he was misinformed by the Carter  and CIA's deliberate false assessment of the stability and unrest in Iran during 1977 and 1978, made Shah to take very incorrect strategies against the black dominance of IR over Iran. I call it a decisive but indirect influence of the US over Iran through Shah. Not mentioning the support that Khomeini in excile was receiving through western media.

 

I believe Afkhami is a very realistic writer and his book can be trusted highly. During the Shah time, Afkhami's sister was the highest authority in protecting women's human rights; she was the head of the Iran's women organisation and was extremely active in that. Their father was a field marshal (the 2nd rank below Shah himself) in the army and noone could find any faults in him during his long service; no apparent link with any of the foreign embassies in Tehran, I mean. These are some family details for you

Message Edited by UN on 01-27-2009 10:29 AM
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Re: The Ayatollah Begs to Differ: Praying in offices.

T2: Forgive my ignorance.  Why are the British paying the Imams?  What is this tie?  Oil?

 

UN: Oil was the consequence of the forein political domination of Iran. The latter was obviously due to the oil and long-term contracts with Iran. Why paying to Imams? Because:

 

1) these lazy bunch know two things: under-belly and the belly. They don't like to work. For example, they masterfully managed to escape from the national military services in Iran introduced by the Shah's father in early 1900s, thanks to their bosses in London).  

 

2) more importantly, these mullahs had psychology of people in their hands. This has been their only talent. They are great actors in rising  emotional feelings, bringing people to tears (e.g., dozens of Shiites myrtyredom stories), they can make them laugh (e.g., mocking anything non-Islamic), they can induce them not to smoke tobacco (to counter the newly established constitutional revolution of Iran in late 1800s), they could encourage people to not to take sugar with their tea in order to break the back of UK's biggest competition in Iran (Russia) in mid 1800s, and many many reasons. No group would've been more effective than them.

 

There are so many examples for explaining traditional love story between the mollahs and the great kingdom since the days oil was discovered by 'D'Arcy" in Iran in early 1800 right until today (Ayatollah Hashemi Rafsanjaanee, the president in 1990s is a well-known example). This is the way British influenced Iran's politics but all through Iranian mersenaries not directly by them. That is why noone can really find any photos or live mass evidence about any of the above three superpowers other than small case studies here and there that people share mouth to mouth; an unwritten history (I think they are written somewhere I forgot the name of the book and I will find it for you).

 

 

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Re: The Ayatollah Begs to Differ: Life of the Shah.

That is not how I understand the word Timbukto.  Definitions 1-3 here are what I understand to mean by the term. 

 

 


Timbuktu2 wrote:

This is a side issue but something I think is worth pointing out.  The word "tolerance" bothers me.  It implies a superior "tolerating" an inferior.  I know it's supposedly used to demonstrate inclusiveness and egalitarianism but I believe it does just the opposite. 

 

When the US was being founded a rabbi thanked George Washington for his "tolerance" of his people.  Washington told the rabbi that "tolerance" had nothing to do with it.  He was an equal citizen.  This was a new kind of country where all men were equal under the law, so no one was "tolerating" anyone else.  Sometimes the words we use express unconscious attitude.


 

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Ryan_G
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Re: The Ayatollah Begs to Differ: Life of the Shah.

Tim, for once I agree with you on something. 

Timbuktu2 wrote:

This is a side issue but something I think is worth pointing out.  The word "tolerance" bothers me.  It implies a superior "tolerating" an inferior.  I know it's supposedly used to demonstrate inclusiveness and egalitarianism but I believe it does just the opposite. 

 

When the US was being founded a rabbi thanked George Washington for his "tolerance" of his people.  Washington told the rabbi that "tolerance" had nothing to do with it.  He was an equal citizen.  This was a new kind of country where all men were equal under the law, so no one was "tolerating" anyone else.  Sometimes the words we use express unconscious attitude.


 

"I am half sick of shadows" The Lady of Shalott

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Re: The Ayatollah Begs to Differ: Praying in offices.

Dear L-Monty -

On Dashti - there are several rumors going around - one of which as it appears on google/Wiki searches is that he died in 1982.   Some suggest he died in IRI prisons wishing his death.    I have also heared rumors of him having died years before the revolt while living/hiding in Turkey.   One way or another - the idea that he was the actual author of 23-years is still not clear - at least in Iran where all the copies circulating had no author's name. 

 

As for the others -

 

In 1948 and after WW2 - the whole world sat together and accepted the 30 basic articles of human rights.   Saudi Arabia did not - because articles conflicted with Islam !! 

I - just like most of you - do believe in the concept of live and let live.   But what should we do when the anti-human rights culture believes in expansing it's domain ?  what are we going to do when billions are spent on our soils to actualy "Buy" new moslems - often converting/recruting criminals right out of our jails.   Did you know that the Islamic Republic spends millions $ in American jails spreading their message ?   

 

 

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Choisya
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Re: The Ayatollah Begs to Differ: Different cultures.

Thanks a lot UN.   I would want to see more proof that the British government/embassy are involved in these bribes because it may just be something the mercenaries themselves are doing - mercenary troops do not have a good reputation whichever side they are on or wherever they choose to hire out their services.  There is too much conspiracy theory stuff out there for anything to be believed without a lot of checking when these allegations are made. 

 

Of course the experiences of yourself and Masoud are different from mine and you have been subjected to truly horrid things but that is not to say that absolutely everything about the Iranian regime, or any other regime, is totally negative.  We are too fond of 'throwing babies out with the bathwater' when it comes to making changes.  You both must know that the Muhammad Reza Shah had his secret police too, and shot and imprisoned students who demonstrated.  Shah Pahlavi, in a former era, replaced Sharia with a civil system but he also suppressed the Ashura celebrations, forbade Iranians to go on the hajj, forbade Islamic dress and his soldiers used to tear off women's veils in the streets. When people demonstrated against the Dress Laws in 1935, soldiers fired on an unarmed crowd and there were hundreds of casualties.  (Source Karen Armstrong's Islam.) 

 

Sometimes a people get so used to oppression and violence that it becomes part of the fabric of society whoever the rulers are.  We see this in a country like South Africa where despite the high ideals of Nelson Mandela's party, violence and corruption have continued even though the white Apartheid regime has been dismantled. We see it now in Iraq where, despite the overthrow of Saddam Hussein and the establishment of a democratic government, sectarian violence between Sunni and Shia continue.  We do not yet know what will happen when the regime in Iran changes, whether violence will continue or subside.

 

I am just not prepared to label another nation's people 'inferior', it smacks of racism and is a word Hitler used.   The oppression you and Masoud speak of is nothing to do with the 'inferiority' of people.  Oppression and violence, wherever it occurs, is an assault upon human dignity, whichever nation uses it.  We have seen arguments on this board about the American use of torture at Guantanamo and elsewhere.  That is generally regarded as inhuman too.  I have posted of the wholesale bombings of cities by the Allies which killed thousands of innocent civilians.  That too was inhuman. 

 

I have not been to the Middle East but I have travelled fairly widely and I have mixed with a very wide variety of people and religions. I have socialised at practically every foreign Embassy in the UK and have had friends and neighbours from many cultures and religions.  For the past 10 years I have had lodgers in my home from all over the world who practised a number of religions, including Buddhists, Hindus, Sunnis and Shias (one from Iran who introduced me to Persian poetry:smileyhappy:).  None of them had a culture or exhibited behaviour that was inferior to my own, all were very nice people with nice families who were tolerant of others, despite the fact that a number of them had been brought up in non-democratic countries or in the totalitarian regimes of Russia and China.  My discussions with them revealed cultural values very similar to my own - they loved their wives and children, wanted decent jobs and homes, wanted peace in the world, deplored the excesses of their governments and so on, just like you and me!

 

You will know that Islam has come to be demonised since 9/11 and people are only too willing to believe the very worst of it, just as they were once persuaded to believe the very worst of Jews:smileysad:.  I have read books demonising Sunnis and books demonising Shias, books demonising the Wahabis of Saudi Arabia.  Somewhere there has to be a balance.  I think one of the fairest books written in recent years (and after 9/11) is Karen Armstrong's Islam - a Short History. A review in the Times said this of it:-

 

'One of the greatest of the world religions through the 1500 years of its existence, Islam has also been by far the most misunderstood.  The Western world has undergone a complete revolution of thought in recent centuries, buts its mistrust of Islam is still essentially medieval.

 

Seven centuries on from the last Crusade, the Holy Places Islam occupies are oil wells; once the 'Scourge of God', its forces are now an affront to secular liberalism. The 'fundamentalist' fanatic; the oppressor of women; the ruthless terrorist; the tyrant: these are the stereotypes of the new-look Islamic infidel. 

 

Karen Armstrong's book cuts through the cliche to reveal a faith which has inspired as many scholars, mystics and poets as soldiers.  Islam, she makes clear, has not only been one of the world's most important and inspiring religions but the basis for one of its most illustrious civilisations.

 

A thorough good guide....as well as being an excellent antidote to prejudice.' [my italics].        

 

   

 


UN wrote:

Hi C, I can clearly see ur point when u talk about not agreeing with any culture imposing itself to other otherwise what would be the difference with the IR. This is the first thing that comes to the mind of a rational human being. However MasoudA is saying it to a wrong audience. People here are not the same as those western politicians who practically prescribe and design cultural changes in other countries. Masoud's frank words can only be understood by them not by good citizens; he said something that is irrational but 'correct'. Please understand that I am not defending MasoudA as he has his own mind and will. I am only clarifying what he says that is not understandable by western rationale. This is his conclusion:

 

"There are no superior races - but nobody can deny existance of inferior cultures around us.  I see nothing wrong with co-existing with those who wish to live within the primitive ways of inferior cultures - but some of them insist of expanding their way of life and forcing it upon others. "

 

The context of his above belief is his personal experience of being forced to fly out of his homeland, to be embarrassed and threathened to even take his daughter to Iran to show the socalled 'progress' to her and the rest of it (I know MasoudA for a long time now but only through the Internet forums). Iranians have witnessed monthly regular payment coming from the British embassy to every major Ayatollah in every city. I only give you ONE example because my father  was also involved in it:

 

Friday Emaam of a small city in Azarbayjaan (never mind the name) was a british mersenary. He had few sons and one daughter; none of them except for one, was intelligent but they all were getting high positions in Iran because both Soviet and British embassies had their share of mersenaries to nominate for the job. A complicated arrangement but true (u should trust me on this otherwise I can never prove it to you). One of his sons who was also a bit abnormal and stupid went as far as being the head of Iran's parliament and his only education was Islamic education. It was in 1960s. The smartest one managed to get free educational fund from the UK and finished Oxford with a BA in political science and went as high as being the young shah's prime minister, and after his term became ambassador to Italy. You may wonder what the Emaam jomeh's task was: To say certain things at certain times during the friday prayer meeting. With this background, can MasoudA or me or many other Iranians believe that things are as rosy and glossy as you in the west experiencing? 

I just wanted to clarify a small part of my experience as I am coming from a politician family close to that Emaam Jomeh and have been listening to many of my dad's conversations with others. Fortunately my dad was not as high ranking to be that bad loool and he knew all these because he was a close relative of that family; a very close relative.

 

I suppose Masoud is talking to those politicians who are directly involved in the projects that I just mentioned above in the ME in general and in Iran in particular. So, pls be soft on him because his strange claims cannot stand your western rationality. 

  


 

Inspired Contributor
Choisya
Posts: 10,782
Registered: ‎10-26-2006
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Re: The Ayatollah Begs to Differ: Bribes.

UN:  I have been looking for information about bribes and although I cannot find anything about Iran, I have found this on bribes which are being given in Afghanistan to try to win the tribal leaders over the to UK/US forces.  Do you think that something similar might be happening in Iran, trying to 'soften up' mullahs who might be favourable to UK/US peace or trade negotiations?  If so, is it necessarily a bad thing?  I am in two minds about it myself - yes, bribes are unethical but if they bring about a result which improves things for Iranians in the long run?   I was listening to President Obama's talk today about persuading Muslims that 'America is not your enemy' and thought that it was really all about 'winning hearts and minds'.  Is bribing mullahs another way of doing this I wonder? 

 

What do you think about President Obama's interview on the Middle East (above) and this journalist's comments on past and present peace initiatives in Jordan?