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debbook
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Re: sara palin

I think her position on pro-contraception is going to upset a lot of the  religious right conservatives, especially as they don't think McCain is conservative enough. I'm glad she said that in 2006. If she said that now she would look foolish as her daughter would be an example of abstinence-based education not working.


thewanderingjew wrote:

as far as sex education goes, check out the article in the la times

there appear to be a lot of rumors that are unproven and not true out there and those that spread them don't seem to be concerned with fact checking them.

from la times article: (i wouldn't consider this paper unfairly biased against liberals, would you?)

"The Republican vice presidential candidate says students should be taught about condoms. Her running mate -- and the party platform -- disagree. "

twj


TiggerBear wrote:

look wrote:
I am the author of The Unspoken(what the world don't talk about). Sara Palin seems to be a nice lady but she need to talk about how she and John Mccain is going to help to struggling americans. I think their agenda is way off from the real problem in america. When you have people can't pay their rent and buy food. When their is no jobs in the poor communites. When people have to rob paul to pay peter, it's a problem. Do you think so? >

As a woman I still wouldn't vote for her. She's Pro life, nope sorry. She voted against sex education in schools, !?! what is they major reason for teenage pregnancies, a lack of sex education. As more sex education is in schools you get rapid dropping pregnancy levels. (shaking head) And for her third strike her running mate.


 

 


 

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kiakar
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Re: sara palin


thewanderingjew wrote:

as far as sex education goes, check out the article in the la times

there appear to be a lot of rumors that are unproven and not true out there and those that spread them don't seem to be concerned with fact checking them.

from la times article: (i wouldn't consider this paper unfairly biased against liberals, would you?)

"The Republican vice presidential candidate says students should be taught about condoms. Her running mate -- and the party platform -- disagree. "

twj


TiggerBear wrote:

look wrote:
I am the author of The Unspoken(what the world don't talk about). Sara Palin seems to be a nice lady but she need to talk about how she and John Mccain is going to help to struggling americans. I think their agenda is way off from the real problem in america. When you have people can't pay their rent and buy food. When their is no jobs in the poor communites. When people have to rob paul to pay peter, it's a problem. Do you think so? >

As a woman I still wouldn't vote for her. She's Pro life, nope sorry. She voted against sex education in schools, !?! what is they major reason for teenage pregnancies, a lack of sex education. As more sex education is in schools you get rapid dropping pregnancy levels. (shaking head) And for her third strike her running mate.


 

 


 

What I do not understand is why someone thinks they need to tell someone wwhat to do with their body? That is the main question because its up to the individual if they choose to think that baby is not a human being until he or she breathes on earth. That is their choice. That is like trying to choose someone's religion, isn't it? And are we trying to do God's work as judge. He will judge and he will make it right, we shouldnt think we have to. I am not going to be that self-rightous. I have enought to answer for. We can help poor infants that have no parents or unfit parents that are born here on earth and we can pray with and for these mothers that choose abortion but we shouldnt dictate to them what they have to do. I was asked at sixteen if I wanted an abortion and they weren't legal and I was told of a doctor in my town that I was quite familiar with that done the abortions. So the fact is, the illegal abortions would happen and many mothers and babies would die again as years ago.
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Timbuktu1
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Re: sara palin

I don't believe that ignorance of birth control is responsible for teen-age pregnancy.

Personally, I think sex education belongs in the home. 

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debbook
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Re: sara palin

Then what do you think about Sara Palin's daughter being pregnant? Would you say the sex education in the home failed? Though I'm sure she knew about birth control but like many teenagers, thinks that things won't happen to them.
A room without books is like a body without a soul.~ Cicero...
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kiakar
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Re: sara palin


debbook wrote:
Then what do you think about Sara Palin's daughter being pregnant? Would you say the sex education in the home failed? Though I'm sure she knew about birth control but like many teenagers, thinks that things won't happen to them.

 

You are so right Deb. There is no way you can convince a child that they will become pregnant because "things do not happen tothem. I have known kids who have said that. Oh Mom, it would never happen to me. And since all kids are human just as we are, it can happen to them. The moment happens and they lose all the common sense they have had and have been taught. Yes, it needs to be done at home. A talk and a trip to the dr for birth control. No, my girls did not take birth control excepting the youngest and she did for medical reasons and the only daughter that I didnt go crazy worrying about it happening. I knew I had taught them everything and still drilled them but when that moment hits, you never know what they will do and they do not know what they will do.  Believe me I have lived through it. I do know.   Linda
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Timbuktu1
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Re: sara palin


debbook wrote:
Then what do you think about Sara Palin's daughter being pregnant? Would you say the sex education in the home failed? Though I'm sure she knew about birth control but like many teenagers, thinks that things won't happen to them.

Not knowing the situation I can't say but my hunch is that she might not have cared if she got pregnant.  I know too many people who are highly educated and well-informed (including drs.) who have unplanned
pregnancies.   

 

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debbook
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Re: sara palin

I worry as there are so many girls that can be talked into having sex without condoms because the boy doesn't like them. There are too many girls that don't have enough self-esteem to take care of their bodies. I guess you can teach sex education at home, at school, anywhere but if a person doesn't have regard for themselves then all the info in the world won't help. Parents need to teach their children how to respect themselves.  Telling a child " don't have sex until you get married" isn't going to do it. Teenagers have a lot of hormones and emotions that they don't understand. It should always be an ongoing dialogue.

Timbuktu1 wrote:

debbook wrote:
Then what do you think about Sara Palin's daughter being pregnant? Would you say the sex education in the home failed? Though I'm sure she knew about birth control but like many teenagers, thinks that things won't happen to them.

Not knowing the situation I can't say but my hunch is that she might not have cared if she got pregnant.  I know too many people who are highly educated and well-informed (including drs.) who have unplanned
pregnancies.   

 


 

A room without books is like a body without a soul.~ Cicero...
"bookmagic418.blogspot.com
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Timbuktu1
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Re: sara palin


debbook wrote:
I worry as there are so many girls that can be talked into having sex without condoms because the boy doesn't like them. There are too many girls that don't have enough self-esteem to take care of their bodies. I guess you can teach sex education at home, at school, anywhere but if a person doesn't have regard for themselves then all the info in the world won't help. Parents need to teach their children how to respect themselves.  Telling a child " don't have sex until you get married" isn't going to do it. Teenagers have a lot of hormones and emotions that they don't understand. It should always be an ongoing dialogue.

Timbuktu1 wrote:

debbook wrote:
Then what do you think about Sara Palin's daughter being pregnant? Would you say the sex education in the home failed? Though I'm sure she knew about birth control but like many teenagers, thinks that things won't happen to them.

Not knowing the situation I can't say but my hunch is that she might not have cared if she got pregnant.  I know too many people who are highly educated and well-informed (including drs.) who have unplanned
pregnancies.   

 


 


Maybe Sara Palin said "use a condom".  They don't always work either.   There is this accepted fallacy that birth control works.  The only thing that always works is abstinence.  Sad but true!

 

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thewanderingjew
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Re: sara palin

every town probably had "an abortion king" perhaps masquerading as the tonsil king with a private hospital in his home.

passion is a funny thing. it takes away your common sense sometimes. also, pregnancy has been used as a tool by some women to force the man to marry them. the problem is so large...it has so many variations...is abortion right or wrong, is it being used by some as a form of birth control, is sex education the right thing in high school, what about grade school, when does life begin, has modern science changed some of our views?

i am not opposed to science. sex education from a biological point of view is appropriate for all ages. sex education which sanctions irresponsible sex is what i am opposed to and i suppose it depends on the ability of the individual teacher to cover the subject matter and not insert her own beliefs into the curriculum.
also, i believe that sex education has to be age appropriate and sometimes i don't think this is the case. i still feel that sex education is under the purview of the parent. ultimately, the parent should decide at what age her children need to discover about homosexuality and intercourse and abortion etc. i would not be opposed to leaving it out of the curriculum for very young children. however, i would not oppose its inclusion if some people saw fit to have it because of circumstances that might impact a particular class. perhaps there is a homosexual couple with children in the class or perhaps the teacher is pregnant so it would be appropriate. i would just hope the teachers were properly trained to teach it, whatever the subject matter might be. not all teachers are created equal.

sometimes i think that parents are leaving too much of the rearing of their children to others and they are not taking on the responsibility themselves, which might better serve the children.
twj

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Everyman
Posts: 9,216
Registered: ‎10-19-2006
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Re: sara palin


Timbuktu1 wrote:

I don't believe that ignorance of birth control is responsible for teen-age pregnancy.

Personally, I think sex education belongs in the home. 


 

Bingo.  We complain about parents who don't parent, but then we take away many of the parenting roles and tools by assigning them to the schools.  Our school has all sorts of programs that are trying to substitute for parenting, from feeding kids breakfast to sex education to how to deal with bullies, to on and on. Did you parents spank you last night?  Report it to the school counselor who will report it to child welfare who will take you away from your horrible, terrible, no good parents who want you to grow up to be honest and responsible and accept the consequences of bad decisions.  

 

(And so, since you parents were never allowed to teach you strong values, where will you wind up?  Doing ten to twenty in the state pen.  This is better than a nine year old being paddled for stealing a candy bar from the store?)

 

No wonder parents don't/can't parent anymore.  They aren't exepected to.  And those that want to are thwarded by the schools demanding that it be done THEIR way, not the parent's way.

 

The best way to destroy a civilization is to destroy the family.  And our government agencies are working on doing just that as hard as them seem able to.  

_______________
I think, therefore I drive people nuts.
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Everyman
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Re: sara palin

Why do you assume that she didn't get sex education in the school?   Maybe that's where she learned how to have sex in the first place, but she didn't do it the school's way by making sure she put the skin on the banana first.  Or maybe she did, but the skin got a hole in it.

 


debbook wrote:
Then what do you think about Sara Palin's daughter being pregnant? Would you say the sex education in the home failed? Though I'm sure she knew about birth control but like many teenagers, thinks that things won't happen to them.

 

 

_______________
I think, therefore I drive people nuts.
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Everyman
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Re: sara palin

also, pregnancy has been used as a tool by some women to force the man to marry them.

 

Boy, do they ever.  A distant young relative of mine is trying that real hard.  She's living with a guy she wants to marry and he doesn't.  So without telling him she went off the pill deliberately trying to get pregnant (without his knowing it) because she believed that would trap him into marriage.  It almost worked -- she did get pregnant, but she miscarried.  Thank god.   That potential child would have had a horrible life, his or her only reason for being being as a weapon in this relationship.  

 


thewanderingjew wrote:

every town probably had "an abortion king" perhaps masquerading as the tonsil king with a private hospital in his home.

passion is a funny thing. it takes away your common sense sometimes. also, pregnancy has been used as a tool by some women to force the man to marry them. the problem is so large...it has so many variations...is abortion right or wrong, is it being used by some as a form of birth control, is sex education the right thing in high school, what about grade school, when does life begin, has modern science changed some of our views?

i am not opposed to science. sex education from a biological point of view is appropriate for all ages. sex education which sanctions irresponsible sex is what i am opposed to and i suppose it depends on the ability of the individual teacher to cover the subject matter and not insert her own beliefs into the curriculum.
also, i believe that sex education has to be age appropriate and sometimes i don't think this is the case. i still feel that sex education is under the purview of the parent. ultimately, the parent should decide at what age her children need to discover about homosexuality and intercourse and abortion etc. i would not be opposed to leaving it out of the curriculum for very young children. however, i would not oppose its inclusion if some people saw fit to have it because of circumstances that might impact a particular class. perhaps there is a homosexual couple with children in the class or perhaps the teacher is pregnant so it would be appropriate. i would just hope the teachers were properly trained to teach it, whatever the subject matter might be. not all teachers are created equal.

sometimes i think that parents are leaving too much of the rearing of their children to others and they are not taking on the responsibility themselves, which might better serve the children.
twj


 

 

 

 

_______________
I think, therefore I drive people nuts.
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debbook
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Re: sara palin

[ Edited ]

Any parent that doesn't do their job because they think its being taken care of somewhere else doesn't deserve to have kids. If they are so weak that they can't take control of their families, that they abdicate responsibility b/c there are other people looking out for their kids, then they are pathetic excuses for human beings.

And how do breakfast programs for poor children offend you?

Who said parents can't teach their children strong values? So kids learn some things at school. Its not because they don't want parents doing it, its because parents aren't doing it. I'd rather some poor kid that has slacker parents get some support from their school than nothing at all.

Do you have anything to back up your argument that school programs lead to criminal behavior? I would love to read it.

And absolutely, lets return to a time where we mind our own business and let parents abuse their kids. I'm sure children everywhere thank you for your concern. And yes, everyone has a story of someone that had CPS take a child out of a home because of an innocent spanking. Don't bother me with that ridiculous conversation. I would think that as a family law attorney you have seen cases of children suffering terrible abuse. I certainly have. I guess if you knew of something suspicious, you would mind your own business, as their parents just want them to grow up to be honest and responsible. 

 

 

 

Everyman wrote:

 

Bingo.  We complain about parents who don't parent, but then we take away many of the parenting roles and tools by assigning them to the schools.  Our school has all sorts of programs that are trying to substitute for parenting, from feeding kids breakfast to sex education to how to deal with bullies, to on and on. Did you parents spank you last night?  Report it to the school counselor who will report it to child welfare who will take you away from your horrible, terrible, no good parents who want you to grow up to be honest and responsible and accept the consequences of bad decisions.  

 

(And so, since you parents were never allowed to teach you strong values, where will you wind up?  Doing ten to twenty in the state pen.  This is better than a nine year old being paddled for stealing a candy bar from the store?)

 

No wonder parents don't/can't parent anymore.  They aren't exepected to.  And those that want to are thwarded by the schools demanding that it be done THEIR way, not the parent's way.

 

The best way to destroy a civilization is to destroy the family.  And our government agencies are working on doing just that as hard as them seem able to.  

Message Edited by debbook on 09-15-2008 10:32 PM
A room without books is like a body without a soul.~ Cicero...
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debbook
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Re: sara palin

I didn't assume she didn't learn about sex in school. I was assuming that her mother would have discussed sex or not having sex with her in the home. Or do you think that if she had sex education at school, Sara Palin was rendered impotent by that and unable to parent her child? Do you think she is that weak of a woman? From your other posts, it appears you think women are manipulative and out to ruin men's lives. That must be what her daughter is up to. I wonder if she learned that at home or school. Or is that an innate part of who women are?

Everyman wrote:

Why do you assume that she didn't get sex education in the school?   Maybe that's where she learned how to have sex in the first place, but she didn't do it the school's way by making sure she put the skin on the banana first.  Or maybe she did, but the skin got a hole in it.

 


debbook wrote:
Then what do you think about Sara Palin's daughter being pregnant? Would you say the sex education in the home failed? Though I'm sure she knew about birth control but like many teenagers, thinks that things won't happen to them.

 

 


 

A room without books is like a body without a soul.~ Cicero...
"bookmagic418.blogspot.com
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debbook
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Re: sara palin


Everyman wrote:

also, pregnancy has been used as a tool by some women to force the man to marry them.

 

Boy, do they ever.  A distant young relative of mine is trying that real hard.  She's living with a guy she wants to marry and he doesn't.  So without telling him she went off the pill deliberately trying to get pregnant (without his knowing it) because she believed that would trap him into marriage.  It almost worked -- she did get pregnant, but she miscarried.  Thank god.   That potential child would have had a horrible life, his or her only reason for being being as a weapon in this relationship.  

 


That is incredibly offensive!
A room without books is like a body without a soul.~ Cicero...
"bookmagic418.blogspot.com
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Everyman
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Re: sara palin


debbook wrote:

Everyman wrote:

also, pregnancy has been used as a tool by some women to force the man to marry them.

 

Boy, do they ever.  A distant young relative of mine is trying that real hard.  She's living with a guy she wants to marry and he doesn't.  So without telling him she went off the pill deliberately trying to get pregnant (without his knowing it) because she believed that would trap him into marriage.  It almost worked -- she did get pregnant, but she miscarried.  Thank god.   That potential child would have had a horrible life, his or her only reason for being being as a weapon in this relationship.  

 


That is incredibly offensive!

Truth sometimes is.

_______________
I think, therefore I drive people nuts.
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Timbuktu1
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Registered: ‎12-31-2007
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Re: sara palin


thewanderingjew wrote:

every town probably had "an abortion king" perhaps masquerading as the tonsil king with a private hospital in his home.

passion is a funny thing. it takes away your common sense sometimes. also, pregnancy has been used as a tool by some women to force the man to marry them. the problem is so large...it has so many variations...is abortion right or wrong, is it being used by some as a form of birth control, is sex education the right thing in high school, what about grade school, when does life begin, has modern science changed some of our views?

i am not opposed to science. sex education from a biological point of view is appropriate for all ages. sex education which sanctions irresponsible sex is what i am opposed to and i suppose it depends on the ability of the individual teacher to cover the subject matter and not insert her own beliefs into the curriculum.
also, i believe that sex education has to be age appropriate and sometimes i don't think this is the case. i still feel that sex education is under the purview of the parent. ultimately, the parent should decide at what age her children need to discover about homosexuality and intercourse and abortion etc. i would not be opposed to leaving it out of the curriculum for very young children. however, i would not oppose its inclusion if some people saw fit to have it because of circumstances that might impact a particular class. perhaps there is a homosexual couple with children in the class or perhaps the teacher is pregnant so it would be appropriate. i would just hope the teachers were properly trained to teach it, whatever the subject matter might be. not all teachers are created equal.

sometimes i think that parents are leaving too much of the rearing of their children to others and they are not taking on the responsibility themselves, which might better serve the children.
twj



You know time plays funny tricks on our minds.  I've been trying to go back in time and remember what it was like when I was l7.  I happen to have a l7 year old daughter.  I have that image of Palin's family, on stage, in my mind.  Her daughter seems happy and proud.  The world sure has changed!  If that had happened to me a† l7 I would have been devastated.  I would have been devastated to have shamed my parents.  I can not imagine having done that.  The relatives!  The neighbors!  But most of all my parents!  I could not have done that to them.  If that did happen I'd have had to get married immediately and pretend it happened after marriage.    Or go somewhere for an abortion and not tell anyone.  That image, of the happy family proudly standing in front of the entire country, was unimaginable when I was that age.  I'm not even making a value judgment here.  I'm just amazed by how much the world has changed, bit by bit, over the decades.   

 

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debbook
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Re: sara palin

Your beliefs are not truth.


Everyman wrote:

debbook wrote:

Everyman wrote:

also, pregnancy has been used as a tool by some women to force the man to marry them.

 

Boy, do they ever.  A distant young relative of mine is trying that real hard.  She's living with a guy she wants to marry and he doesn't.  So without telling him she went off the pill deliberately trying to get pregnant (without his knowing it) because she believed that would trap him into marriage.  It almost worked -- she did get pregnant, but she miscarried.  Thank god.   That potential child would have had a horrible life, his or her only reason for being being as a weapon in this relationship.  

 


That is incredibly offensive!

Truth sometimes is.


 

 

A room without books is like a body without a soul.~ Cicero...
"bookmagic418.blogspot.com
Inspired Bibliophile
thewanderingjew
Posts: 2,247
Registered: ‎12-18-2007
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Re: sara palin

you are right, age shouldn't matter but that seems to depend on which side of the road you are standing. there are lots of voters in that age bracket who have been rather surprised to learn that they are perceived and/or presented as incompetent and with one foot in the grave!
twj
kiakar wrote:

Why wouldn't they make good Presidents. The age shouldn't matter if they are alert and all that.

 

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look
Posts: 13
Registered: ‎07-21-2008
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Re: Sara palin

deb, i don't think sex education in the homes failed. I think once a kid get a certain age you can preach to them all you want, they think they are grown. An they make their own decisions. Do me a favor, go live in the heart of the ghetto for to weeks you might have another view on life. I don,t blame sara palin for her child behavior. But your believe is respected. 
jlb