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Distinguished Bibliophile
TiggerBear
Posts: 9,489
Registered: ‎02-12-2008
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Re: sara palin

I don't think Palin is out of line with her apparel. She dresses like your standard female politician. I was more upset with what McCain's wife wore for his acceptance speech. A $300,000 to $500,000 dollar dress!?!?!?! Talk about way too much money to spend.
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debbook
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Registered: ‎05-03-2008
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Re: sara palin

Wow, are you sure? I've never heard of that much even for couture.

TiggerBear wrote:
I don't think Palin is out of line with her apparel. She dresses like your standard female politician. I was more upset with what McCain's wife wore for his acceptance speech. A $300,000 to $500,000 dollar dress!?!?!?! Talk about way too much money to spend.

 

A room without books is like a body without a soul.~ Cicero...
"bookmagic418.blogspot.com
Inspired Contributor
Choisya
Posts: 10,782
Registered: ‎10-26-2006
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Re: European perspective - Biden v. Palin.

The Guardian did say may Kathy:smileyhappy:.   Many folks here also find Bush's careless, colloquial speech unstatesmanlike but he was voted in for two terms.  We expect our politicians to have a good speaking voice and gravitas.  Our present Prime Minister's slight Scottish accent is much criticised, for instance.  All the slang that Palin used would be a vote-loser here, even amongst 'hockey mums' and 'six-packers'!  Some people may find colloquial speech to be 'like us', like ordinary people etc. but perhaps because of the class differences in the UK, we expect our senior politicians to talk and to behave better than we do, especially as they are frequently on the world stage.  Ms Palin seems OK for a State but on the international stage I think she would be out of her depth and would risk ridicule. Maybe for a Vice-President she is adequate but if the elderly McCain dies.....:smileysad: 

 

On the question of fashion, a lot of statespeople enter the world arena with poor dress sense but fashion advisors get in on the act and we soon see improvements.  Mrs Thatcher not only had elocution lessons but fashion and hairdressing 'lessons' too.  But she was Oxford educated, a lawyer and an industrial chemist, with Ministerial experience, when she became Prime Minister.

 

 


KathyS wrote:

I just read The Guardian, not the other two, as yet, but this one article did give an accurate account of what I witnessed.  But, I personally have to differ with this one statement: "her folksy, populist tone may have given her the edge with viewers."

 

I, and most of the women I know,  get *turned off* with this kind of speech.  Her, gosh, golly... darn it...soccer mom, six pack, voice, drives me up the wall.  She skirted issues with her - down home, down to earth - verbiage...saying very little to address the 'main' issues that were directed towards her.  She can give her quips, and take up air time, that's her choice, but it didn't "give her the edge" with me.  

 

Anyone going into the wide world of big politics, better be well prepared to meet people who are going to present tuff questions, and want answers that are not going to sound like she just fell off the turnip truck!


Choisya wrote:

I thought folks might to see the reports of this debate in 3 European newspapers.  The Guardian, Le Figaro and Der SpiegelShe is also being called the 'new Iron Lady' and compared to Mrs Thatcher, which may please a lot of Americans but worries me:smileyvery-happy:.

 

 

 

Inspired Bibliophile
thewanderingjew
Posts: 2,247
Registered: ‎12-18-2007
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Re: sara palin

her dress was $3,000. her jewelry was very expensive. her 3 caret diamond earings were listed at $280,000.
it should be noted that vanity fair estimated all the prices. they had no proof of how much they cost or who the designers were or even if they were real.
twj
debbook wrote:
Wow, are you sure? I've never heard of that much even for couture.

TiggerBear wrote:
I don't think Palin is out of line with her apparel. She dresses like your standard female politician. I was more upset with what McCain's wife wore for his acceptance speech. A $300,000 to $500,000 dollar dress!?!?!?! Talk about way too much money to spend.
Inspired Contributor
Choisya
Posts: 10,782
Registered: ‎10-26-2006
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Re: sara palin

Were they given to her by couturiers?  This often happens with celebrities because they act as walking advertisments.  

 


thewanderingjew wrote:
her dress was $3,000. her jewelry was very expensive. her 3 caret diamond earings were listed at $280,000.
it should be noted that vanity fair estimated all the prices. they had no proof of how much they cost or who the designers were or even if they were real.
twj
debbook wrote:
Wow, are you sure? I've never heard of that much even for couture.

TiggerBear wrote:
I don't think Palin is out of line with her apparel. She dresses like your standard female politician. I was more upset with what McCain's wife wore for his acceptance speech. A $300,000 to $500,000 dollar dress!?!?!?! Talk about way too much money to spend.

 

Distinguished Bibliophile
KathyS
Posts: 6,898
Registered: ‎10-19-2006
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Re: European perspective - Biden v. Palin.

[ Edited ]

I'm not feeling tolerant, tonight.  And if I sound mean, I'm really sorry.

 

Yes, I agree what you've said.   May... I love that word, but it implies the probable! 

 

I, also,  think Palin is out of her depth.   

 

I guess I was taken in, the first go-round,  by the Bush administration;  listening to his eloquent advisories.  LIttle did I know! I had  never realized that just being a nice guy wasn't going to be good enough, to account for misjudgment and mismanagement. Actually, I like Mrs. Bush a lot!  At least when she talks I know what she's talking about! LOL  As far as I'm concerned, you'd better know what you're talking about, and if colloquial speech is interjected, it had better mean something, other than sounding like meaningless air space! 

 

Palin's state is the largest, but the population is the smallest.  She has dilutions of BIG, but the mentality of SMALL (town).  I'm not sure if elocution lessions would help her. :smileysad:  But I guess it couldn't hurt!


Choisya wrote:

The Guardian did say may Kathy:smileyhappy:.   Many folks here also find Bush's careless, colloquial speech unstatesmanlike but he was voted in for two terms.  We expect our politicians to have a good speaking voice and gravitas.  Our present Prime Minister's slight Scottish accent is much criticised, for instance.  All the slang that Palin used would be a vote-loser here, even amongst 'hockey mums' and 'six-packers'!  Some people may find colloquial speech to be 'like us', like ordinary people etc. but perhaps because of the class differences in the UK, we expect our senior politicians to talk and to behave better than we do, especially as they are frequently on the world stage.  Ms Palin seems OK for a State but on the international stage I think she would be out of her depth and would risk ridicule. Maybe for a Vice-President she is adequate but if the elderly McCain dies.....:smileysad: 

 

On the question of fashion, a lot of statespeople enter the world arena with poor dress sense but fashion advisors get in on the act and we soon see improvements.  Mrs Thatcher not only had elocution lessons but fashion and hairdressing 'lessons' too.  But she was Oxford educated, a lawyer and an industrial chemist, with Ministerial experience, when she became Prime Minister.

 

 


KathyS wrote:

I just read The Guardian, not the other two, as yet, but this one article did give an accurate account of what I witnessed.  But, I personally have to differ with this one statement: "her folksy, populist tone may have given her the edge with viewers."

 

I, and most of the women I know,  get *turned off* with this kind of speech.  Her, gosh, golly... darn it...soccer mom, six pack, voice, drives me up the wall.  She skirted issues with her - down home, down to earth - verbiage...saying very little to address the 'main' issues that were directed towards her.  She can give her quips, and take up air time, that's her choice, but it didn't "give her the edge" with me.  

 

Anyone going into the wide world of big politics, better be well prepared to meet people who are going to present tuff questions, and want answers that are not going to sound like she just fell off the turnip truck!


Choisya wrote:

I thought folks might to see the reports of this debate in 3 European newspapers.  The Guardian, Le Figaro and Der SpiegelShe is also being called the 'new Iron Lady' and compared to Mrs Thatcher, which may please a lot of Americans but worries me:smileyvery-happy:.

 

 

 


 

Message Edited by KathyS on 10-04-2008 07:54 PM
Distinguished Wordsmith
Everyman
Posts: 9,216
Registered: ‎10-19-2006
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Re: sara palin

I was more upset with what McCain's wife wore for his acceptance speech. A $300,000 to $500,000 dollar dress!?!?!?!

 

Do you have a reputable link to support that?  It sounds like something out of the Daily Kos, which loves to print totally unsubstantiated and false rumors they either make up out of whole cloth or "hear" at the end of a long chain of the telehonie game we used to play as children.

 

_______________
I think, therefore I drive people nuts.
Distinguished Wordsmith
Everyman
Posts: 9,216
Registered: ‎10-19-2006
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Re: sara palin

That makes more sense. She comes from a wealthy family; it's her wealth, not his.  But if you can marry for both love and money, go for it!
_______________
I think, therefore I drive people nuts.
Distinguished Wordsmith
Everyman
Posts: 9,216
Registered: ‎10-19-2006
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Re: sara palin

If they weren't hers, they were more likely lent than given.  Loaning jewelry for important events is quite common

over here.   A large percentage of the jewelry worn at the Oscars is lent. 

 


Choisya wrote:

Were they given to her by couturiers?  This often happens with celebrities because they act as walking advertisments.  

 


thewanderingjew wrote:
her dress was $3,000. her jewelry was very expensive. her 3 caret diamond earings were listed at $280,000.
it should be noted that vanity fair estimated all the prices. they had no proof of how much they cost or who the designers were or even if they were real.
twj
debbook wrote:
Wow, are you sure? I've never heard of that much even for couture.

TiggerBear wrote:
I don't think Palin is out of line with her apparel. She dresses like your standard female politician. I was more upset with what McCain's wife wore for his acceptance speech. A $300,000 to $500,000 dollar dress!?!?!?! Talk about way too much money to spend.

 


 

 

_______________
I think, therefore I drive people nuts.
Inspired Contributor
Choisya
Posts: 10,782
Registered: ‎10-26-2006
0 Kudos

Re: sara palin

[ Edited ]

Yes, I expect the jewellery was lent but the clothes may have been given.  I suppose it depends on the value.  I know that top designers regularly gave clothes to Princess Diana but if the value was too great I guess it would lead to charges of corruption if things were kept.  Royalty and Ministers have to declare gifts over a certain value here. 

 


Everyman wrote:

If they weren't hers, they were more likely lent than given.  Loaning jewelry for important events is quite common

over here.   A large percentage of the jewelry worn at the Oscars is lent. 

 


Choisya wrote:

Were they given to her by couturiers?  This often happens with celebrities because they act as walking advertisments.  

 


thewanderingjew wrote:
her dress was $3,000. her jewelry was very expensive. her 3 caret diamond earings were listed at $280,000.
it should be noted that vanity fair estimated all the prices. they had no proof of how much they cost or who the designers were or even if they were real.
twj
debbook wrote:
Wow, are you sure? I've never heard of that much even for couture.

TiggerBear wrote:
I don't think Palin is out of line with her apparel. She dresses like your standard female politician. I was more upset with what McCain's wife wore for his acceptance speech. A $300,000 to $500,000 dollar dress!?!?!?! Talk about way too much money to spend.

 


 

 


 

Message Edited by Choisya on 10-05-2008 04:54 AM
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debbook
Posts: 1,823
Registered: ‎05-03-2008
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Re: sara palin

I believe the price on the jewelry as diamonds are expensive. $ 3,000 is a reasonable estimate for a designer dress.

thewanderingjew wrote:
her dress was $3,000. her jewelry was very expensive. her 3 caret diamond earings were listed at $280,000.
it should be noted that vanity fair estimated all the prices. they had no proof of how much they cost or who the designers were or even if they were real.
twj
debbook wrote:
Wow, are you sure? I've never heard of that much even for couture.

TiggerBear wrote:
I don't think Palin is out of line with her apparel. She dresses like your standard female politician. I was more upset with what McCain's wife wore for his acceptance speech. A $300,000 to $500,000 dollar dress!?!?!?! Talk about way too much money to spend.

 

A room without books is like a body without a soul.~ Cicero...
"bookmagic418.blogspot.com
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debbook
Posts: 1,823
Registered: ‎05-03-2008
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Re: sara palin

Actually, I think she probably owns the jewelry as to most women it is a personal thing. Celebrities have to dress up so often and are criticized for wearing something more than once, that they borrow everything.

I doubt her dress was borrowed. Most designers are not likely to lend something to a Republican candidates wife as they tend to be very liberal. Also it is not the place to show off their work as with the Oscars,etc.


Choisya wrote:

Yes, I expect the jewellery was lent but the clothes may have been given.  I suppose it depends on the value.  I know that top designers regularly gave clothes to Princess Diana but if the value was too great I guess it would lead to charges of corruption if things were kept.  Royalty and Ministers have to declare gifts over a certain value here. 

 


Everyman wrote:

If they weren't hers, they were more likely lent than given.  Loaning jewelry for important events is quite common

over here.   A large percentage of the jewelry worn at the Oscars is lent. 

 


Choisya wrote:

Were they given to her by couturiers?  This often happens with celebrities because they act as walking advertisments.  

 


thewanderingjew wrote:
her dress was $3,000. her jewelry was very expensive. her 3 caret diamond earings were listed at $280,000.
it should be noted that vanity fair estimated all the prices. they had no proof of how much they cost or who the designers were or even if they were real.
twj
debbook wrote:
Wow, are you sure? I've never heard of that much even for couture.

TiggerBear wrote:
I don't think Palin is out of line with her apparel. She dresses like your standard female politician. I was more upset with what McCain's wife wore for his acceptance speech. A $300,000 to $500,000 dollar dress!?!?!?! Talk about way too much money to spend.

 


 

 


 

Message Edited by Choisya on 10-05-2008 04:54 AM

 

A room without books is like a body without a soul.~ Cicero...
"bookmagic418.blogspot.com
Distinguished Wordsmith
Everyman
Posts: 9,216
Registered: ‎10-19-2006
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Re: sara palin

You're most likely right.  A woman of her wealth (Mrs. McCain, and it's her, not his wealth) would be expected to own valuable jewelry, and what better place to weaar it?  Probably stays in the bank vault except for the five times a year she bring it out to wear.

 

 


debbook wrote:

Actually, I think she probably owns the jewelry as to most women it is a personal thing. Celebrities have to dress up so often and are criticized for wearing something more than once, that they borrow everything.

I doubt her dress was borrowed. Most designers are not likely to lend something to a Republican candidates wife as they tend to be very liberal. Also it is not the place to show off their work as with the Oscars,etc.


_______________
I think, therefore I drive people nuts.
Frequent Contributor
Timbuktu1
Posts: 1,572
Registered: ‎12-31-2007
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Re: sara palin

Whatever happened to Pat Nixon's "Republican cloth coat"?:smileywink:
Distinguished Bibliophile
KathyS
Posts: 6,898
Registered: ‎10-19-2006
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Re: Sarah Palin

It's hanging in the Smithsonian! :smileyhappy: 


Timbuktu1 wrote:
Whatever happened to Pat Nixon's "Republican cloth coat"?:smileywink:

 

 
RTA
Wordsmith
RTA
Posts: 920
Registered: ‎08-19-2008
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Re: sara palin

thewanderingjew wrote: is it because she is a woman or is it just because she is a republican that makes people (even other women), feel that it can be open season with no restraint on the types of insults and accusations hurled her way, some without any proof and actually some have been oft repeated although they have been oft refuted.

 

 geraldine ferraro was treated abominably so many years ago one would have thought we would have made more progress. where are the women who demand equal rights for women right now? do only some women deserve respect

 

Agreed, about Ferraro.  And, likewise, Clinton weathered stunningly sexist remarks from the media.  And I think that neither expected anything different.

 

Frankly (and this is separate from what you were writing, twj, so don’t think it’s directed at you, I’m just using your post as a jumping off point), I think it’s more sexist to think that Palin is hands-off just because she’s a woman.  As though she’s too frail and delicate to withstand what has become the norm in national elections.  It’s reminiscent of the pre-suffrage idea that women are too delicate and moral to participate in the dirty business of voting.  Being among the first female Vice Presidential candidates doesn’t guarantee Palin shelter from attacks, even those that might be unjustified.  Just as her male counterparts are also attacked.  And, as Palin herself has told us that she’s a pit bull with lipstick, I think she expects aggressive treatment.  To argue that she shouldn’t be challenged—or even attacked in the way that focus sometimes turns to less than substantial matters (like her accent, or McCain’s age, or Obama’s race)—doesn’t really give her a lot of credit as a serious candidate.

 

And certainly Palin herself isn't playing with kids' gloves on.    I take it for granted that Palin is meant to be a serious candidate and, as such, I expect her to face criticism, whether valid or not, from a host of sources, just as any candidate would. 

 

I’ve heard both in the public, from McCain’s representatives and from the media alarming accusations about how women in general, and women’s groups aren’t coming to Palin’s defense.  Again, it reminds me of the pressure placed on women to be pro-Clinton in the Democratic primaries.  I’m not sure how that idea logically unfolds.  Is the presumption that just because they’re all women they will share some sort of political ideology?  Are women, even if they disagree with a large part of Palin’s politics (or Clinton’s politics), supposed to defend Palin as a political figure, just because they all happen to have vaginas? And, if so, does that responsibility of sisterhood extend even if one may have very little respect for Palin’s abilities on the national and international level? 

RTA
Wordsmith
RTA
Posts: 920
Registered: ‎08-19-2008
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Re: sara palin

Here’s Steven Pinker's take on Palin.  

 

Pinker writes extensively about language, and his take on Palin's language choices in the debate is interesting.  Actually, his statement about the pronunciation of “nuclear” was the most surprising to me. 

RTA
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RTA
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Registered: ‎08-19-2008
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Re: sara palin

Everyman wrote: And just what is wrong with 50s values? They were pretty darn good values. Sure, we had some issues to deal with, mlstly concerning civil rights, but the streets were safe, there was no gang activity to speak of, children were raised to be respectful to their elders, college was affordable, nobody wore their pants hanging half way down their butt, people read books instead of spending all their hours playing video games, if we wanted to watch movies we went to the theater for a social community event instead of holing up in our houses with DVDs, we had just come out of as good a war as there could be, America was the envy of the world.

 

We should be so lucky as to go back to 50s values.

 

Everyman, can you give those of us who didn’t live in the 50s an idea of the types of values that you are speaking of here? And are you advocating that contemporary politicians subscribe to 1950 values when addressing the issues that we face today? Or am I reading too much into the context of your statement here?

Frequent Contributor
Jon_B
Posts: 1,893
Registered: ‎07-15-2008
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Re: sara palin

[ Edited ]

I just want to point out - maybe things are different in Everyman's neck of the woods, but around here people definitely still go to the theatre as a social event (both for films and for plays) - I see movies in the theatre about once a week, sometimes more, and every time I go, its packed! 

 

In any case if DVD's had been available in the 50's, I suspect people would have watched them at home - and if they'd had video games, they would have played them as well.  That's a technology issue, not really a "values" issue in my opinion.

Message Edited by Jon_B on 10-07-2008 09:49 AM
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debbook
Posts: 1,823
Registered: ‎05-03-2008
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Re: sara palin

RTA, I agree with you. I don't want anyone treating me different because I'm a woman. Anyone that goes into politics knows what to expect. She can dish it, she can take it. I do not go in for the women is victim type mentality. People can be victims, its not gender specific. I'm not going to vote for someone based on their gender if their politics don't match mine.

RTA wrote:

Agreed, about Ferraro.  And, likewise, Clinton weathered stunningly sexist remarks from the media.  And I think that neither expected anything different.

 

Frankly (and this is separate from what you were writing, twj, so don’t think it’s directed at you, I’m just using your post as a jumping off point), I think it’s more sexist to think that Palin is hands-off just because she’s a woman.  As though she’s too frail and delicate to withstand what has become the norm in national elections.  It’s reminiscent of the pre-suffrage idea that women are too delicate and moral to participate in the dirty business of voting.  Being among the first female Vice Presidential candidates doesn’t guarantee Palin shelter from attacks, even those that might be unjustified.  Just as her male counterparts are also attacked.  And, as Palin herself has told us that she’s a pit bull with lipstick, I think she expects aggressive treatment.  To argue that she shouldn’t be challenged—or even attacked in the way that focus sometimes turns to less than substantial matters (like her accent, or McCain’s age, or Obama’s race)—doesn’t really give her a lot of credit as a serious candidate.

 

And certainly Palin herself isn't playing with kids' gloves on.    I take it for granted that Palin is meant to be a serious candidate and, as such, I expect her to face criticism, whether valid or not, from a host of sources, just as any candidate would. 

 

I’ve heard both in the public, from McCain’s representatives and from the media alarming accusations about how women in general, and women’s groups aren’t coming to Palin’s defense.  Again, it reminds me of the pressure placed on women to be pro-Clinton in the Democratic primaries.  I’m not sure how that idea logically unfolds.  Is the presumption that just because they’re all women they will share some sort of political ideology?  Are women, even if they disagree with a large part of Palin’s politics (or Clinton’s politics), supposed to defend Palin as a political figure, just because they all happen to have vaginas? And, if so, does that responsibility of sisterhood extend even if one may have very little respect for Palin’s abilities on the national and international level? 


 

A room without books is like a body without a soul.~ Cicero...
"bookmagic418.blogspot.com