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Bill_T
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Early Chapters Discussion: Acceptance

[ Edited ]
At the beginning of the novel, Miriam is desperate to be accepted among the society set and their opinions mean a great deal to her. Does she care too much about other people’s judgments? How has this affected her life?


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Note: This topic refers to early chapters of The Land of Mango Sunsets. Some readers of this thread may not have finished the book. If you wish to discuss events that take place later in the book, please use a separate thread and put "Spoiler Warning" in the subject line. Thanks!



Message Edited by Bill_T on 07-06-2007 12:40 PM
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kiakar
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Re: Early Chapters Discussion: Acceptance



Bill_T wrote:
At the beginning of the novel, Miriam is desperate to be accepted among the society set and their opinions mean a great deal to her. Does she care too much about other people’s judgments? How has this affected her life?


Reply to this message to discuss this topic. Or start your own new topic by clicking "New Message."

Note: This topic refers to early chapters of The Land of Mango Sunsets. Some readers of this thread may not have finished the book. If you wish to discuss events that take place later in the book, please use a separate thread and put "Spoiler Warning" in the subject line. Thanks!



Message Edited by Bill_T on 07-06-2007 12:40 PM




It seems that Miriam is doing all the wrong things to feel accepted in her world. The most important conflicts like with her sons, she ignors, but her society friends, so call friends that is, she tries letting them eat out of her hand. She certainly does have her priorties all wrong. Hope later she realizes this is not living, not to gain everlasting happiness. Maybe though, she is just ignoring the problems of her love ones and focusing on those that mean less to her but in a way she is hoping they will
relieve some of the pain that is in her heart. I mean, seriously, the woman has lost her husband to a youngster, and her sons are acting like she is a maritian so maybe she needs some one to wake her up to her real problems. I do love this book!
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maxcat
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Re: Early Chapters Discussion: Acceptance

I think Miriam has her heart set on being socially acceptable and it's not working. She should pay attention more to herself and her family and lighten up on her mother who has turned into an island native.
The woods are lovely, dark and deep, but I have promises to keep and miles to go before I sleep - Robert Frost
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kiakar
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Re: Early Chapters Discussion: Acceptance



maxcat wrote:
I think Miriam has her heart set on being socially acceptable and it's not working. She should pay attention more to herself and her family and lighten up on her mother who has turned into an island native.





I do not know why I think this, but I think her mom will have some surprises for us later on in the book. And I haven't read it either. I could be wrong but.....
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dotfrank
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Re: Early Chapters Discussion: Acceptance


Bill_T wrote:
At the beginning of the novel, Miriam is desperate to be accepted among the society set and their opinions mean a great deal to her. Does she care too much about other people’s judgments? How has this affected her life?


Reply to this message to discuss this topic. Or start your own new topic by clicking "New Message."

Note: This topic refers to early chapters of The Land of Mango Sunsets. Some readers of this thread may not have finished the book. If you wish to discuss events that take place later in the book, please use a separate thread and put "Spoiler Warning" in the subject line. Thanks!



Message Edited by Bill_T on 07-06-2007 12:40 PM


Hi everyone!

Just got home from Greece - bags still lost! But I'm not - I am thrilled to be back here this year with y'all! Now, to Miriam? Poor thing. I feel terrible for her! Hasn't anyone out there ever wanted to be part of a group that won't have you? Can't you feel the knots in her stomach?


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Stephanie
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Re: Early Chapters Discussion: Acceptance

I did feel badly for Miriam - I wanted her to not care about all that hoopla, but she did, and after all, it was her life for a long time. It's so human that we get caught up in that feeling of wanting to be part of something, no matter how old we are. I'm learning lessons from her already!
Stephanie
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dotfrank
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Re: Early Chapters Discussion: Acceptance



kiakar wrote:


maxcat wrote:
I think Miriam has her heart set on being socially acceptable and it's not working. She should pay attention more to herself and her family and lighten up on her mother who has turned into an island native.





I do not know why I think this, but I think her mom will have some surprises for us later on in the book. And I haven't read it either. I could be wrong but.....




Y'all may depend on Miss Josie. My little old ladies always do their part!


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LizzieAnn
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Acceptance

It's that same-old age-old game: wanting to be part of the "clique"! It starts in junior high - intensifies in high school, and continues throughout life if you let it! Miriam just doesn't seem to have found acceptance of herself within her self and is trying to be accepted by what she considers the ultimate group. She hasn't yet learned that the only opinion that matters is one's own.
Liz ♥ ♥


Some books are to be tasted, others to be swallowed, and some few to be chewed and digested. ~ Francis Bacon
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KathyS
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Re: Early Chapters Discussion: Acceptance

Dot, I like your older ladies in your novels, they always, and I mean always, give balance and stability to the main characters. The sound advice is always there, and we all learn from it along the way. It's been more than interesting to see, and hear, as these words start to bounce off of our dear, straight-[tight]-laced Miriam!

Kathy S.
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vivico1
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Re: Acceptance


LizzieAnn wrote:
It's that same-old age-old game: wanting to be part of the "clique"! It starts in junior high - intensifies in high school, and continues throughout life if you let it! Miriam just doesn't seem to have found acceptance of herself within her self and is trying to be accepted by what she considers the ultimate group. She hasn't yet learned that the only opinion that matters is one's own.


So true LizzieAnn, and her wanting to fit perfectly in this quasi socialite lifestyle that became hers through her marriage has really made her less than she can be I think. The sad part too is as you say about it continuing on, already in the first part of the book, she is judging potential roomers by the same standards but what bothered me most was her interpretation of someone's motives...but i just realised that comes later in chapter 9, THE BIG SPILL, so will hold that thought for now lol. Anywhoooo, it seems the attention and shall we say "titles" came as a packaged deal with the marriage cause she says early on that she lost a lot of friends when Charles left. That happens a lot in group things, hard to be the single one when the pair is broken up but doesn't that say something about the ones you have been calling friends? The danger of cliquish groups aye?
Vivian
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scgal
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Re: Early Chapters Discussion: Acceptance

Now, it's been a month or so since I finished the book, but here is my main thought...Miriam lets what she does define her...rather than who she is. Rather, who she is is defined by what she does. Seems oddly familiar to me at this point in my life.....
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mairwill
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Re: Acceptance

All--

Not only are single women not wanted in those old circles of so-called friends after the husband dies or divorces us, but that we tie our social status with their business/economic status. AND some women let this happen. Hope that makes sense.

Right now I'm watching the Today Show and they just did a segment on trophy wives and Fred Thompson. Um.

Later--

Mair
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sarahsal
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Re: Early Chapters Discussion: Acceptance

Poor Miriam, sometimes denial can be a comfortable place, or if not comfortable at least familiar and less scary that something totally new. I think she is really stuck. Probably deep down she knows it isn't working but she just keep plugging along hoping for a different outcome. She is going to have to change some views of life to survive the next stage....hence, Miss Josie.
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LizzieAnn
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Re: Early Chapters Discussion: Acceptance

So true Kathy. They're always among the best characters!



KathyS wrote:
Dot, I like your older ladies in your novels, they always, and I mean always, give balance and stability to the main characters. The sound advice is always there, and we all learn from it along the way. It's been more than interesting to see, and hear, as these words start to bounce off of our dear, straight-[tight]-laced Miriam!

Kathy S.


Liz ♥ ♥


Some books are to be tasted, others to be swallowed, and some few to be chewed and digested. ~ Francis Bacon
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dotfrank
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Re: Acceptance



mairwill wrote:
All--

Not only are single women not wanted in those old circles of so-called friends after the husband dies or divorces us, but that we tie our social status with their business/economic status. AND some women let this happen. Hope that makes sense.

Right now I'm watching the Today Show and they just did a segment on trophy wives and Fred Thompson. Um.

Later--

Mair




"Um" is the appropriate response. For sure.


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Wrighty
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Re: Acceptance


dotfrank wrote:


mairwill wrote:
All--

Not only are single women not wanted in those old circles of so-called friends after the husband dies or divorces us, but that we tie our social status with their business/economic status. AND some women let this happen. Hope that makes sense.

Right now I'm watching the Today Show and they just did a segment on trophy wives and Fred Thompson. Um.

Later--

Mair




"Um" is the appropriate response. For sure.




I don't think anyone has mentioned this yet but this story line reminds me of the new series on the USA network this summer called Starter Wife. The lead character
( Debra Messing from Will and Grace ) was married to a Hollywood big wig for ten years and he suddenly decided he didn't need her anymore. He wanted to be with a new young star. The wife is now snubbed by everyone in their circle of friends, restaurants, etc. She has become an outsider in an instant and needs to find a new identity. She only has a few true friends who have stayed with her. What was very ironic is that the creator of the show is a woman who has been married to a Hollywood big wig herself for ten years. Just last month I heard that they are divorcing. I wonder if she will get snubbed herself.
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KathyS
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Re: Acceptance

Wrightly wrote: I don't think anyone has mentioned this yet but this story line reminds me of the new series on the USA network this summer called Starter Wife. The lead character
( Debra Messing from Will and Grace ) was married to a Hollywood big wig for ten years and he suddenly decided he didn't need her anymore. He wanted to be with a new young star. The wife is now snubbed by everyone in their circle of friends, restaurants, etc. She has become an outsider in an instant and needs to find a new identity. She only has a few true friends who have stayed with her. What was very ironic is that the creator of the show is a woman who has been married to a Hollywood big wig herself for ten years. Just last month I heard that they are divorcing. I wonder if she will get snubbed herself.
____________________________________

Debbie, interesting! I wonder!
K.
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vivico1
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Re: Acceptance

[ Edited ]

KathyS wrote:
Wrightly wrote: I don't think anyone has mentioned this yet but this story line reminds me of the new series on the USA network this summer called Starter Wife. The lead character
( Debra Messing from Will and Grace ) was married to a Hollywood big wig for ten years and he suddenly decided he didn't need her anymore. He wanted to be with a new young star. The wife is now snubbed by everyone in their circle of friends, restaurants, etc. She has become an outsider in an instant and needs to find a new identity. She only has a few true friends who have stayed with her. What was very ironic is that the creator of the show is a woman who has been married to a Hollywood big wig herself for ten years. Just last month I heard that they are divorcing. I wonder if she will get snubbed herself.
____________________________________

Debbie, interesting! I wonder!
K.


Who knows, could be, but then again, Hollywood is so very different than anywhere in the "real" world lol. Most women who have made a name for themselves there, do ok after a divorce..it seems anyway, workwise they do. Sometimes in Hollywood its the man, The Mr Meryl Streep or whoever, who gets snubbed, know what I mean? Meryl Streep just hit me as a name because shes in a new movie i want to see Friday called Evening, some of you may have read the book. It looks good, lots of very famous women who I guess are family and friends who come together and straighten out their lives in their older ages with flashbacks of when they were all young together. That kind of thing I think. I will go just to see Meryl, Glenn Close and Vanessa Redgraves all in the same movie! lol but talking about comparisons, there is something else I think about this book in comparison with a book I just read that was suppose to be a coming of age book. The problem was with the ending, there was none. You dont know what the adult girl is doing or what happened to most of the people in the book or did she come away with anything better than the hard lessons she was learning in her youth so you were at the end looking for that "coming of age" chapter!
I dont think a coming of age book is just one about a youth growing up and how they turn out from the lessons they learned in childhood. I think that like in this book, and I think especially with women, we have coming of age stories that often start in our mid lives and at that time with older women to help us get there. I think sometimes we dont "come of age" until we "age" some, and then we learn more about ourselves and others than we ever knew before. In that regards, stories like these (and maybe the movie Evening, I will let you know LOL) are coming of age books for the mature adult woman and thats why we like them so much. Dot, thats what I liked about this book, besides a lot of other things of course, like the incredible humor. Its a great adult "coming of age" story. :smileyhappy:

Message Edited by vivico1 on 07-10-2007 02:37 PM
Vivian
~Those who do not read are no better off than those who can not.~ Chinese proverb
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mairwill
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Re: Acceptance

Wrighty and All--

I watched the first episode of "The Starter Wife" and I thought about it as I was reading Dot's book, too. Flashes of the Debra Messing character going to the big party in Malibu as I was reading the scene of Miriam and the invitations committee came to my mind. Some of you might not have read that far, so I won't elaborate.

Later--

Mair
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sarahsal
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Re: Acceptance

I think we never stop "coming of age." There always seems to be more things to learn, especially about who we are and who we can be. Sarah
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