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paulgoatallen
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Evil and Sexual Gender

Do you think that the representation of evil in Dracula has anything to do with sexual gender?
"There never can be a man so lost as one who is lost in the vast and intricate corridors of his own lonely mind, where none may reach and none may save..." – Isaac Asimov, Pebble in the Sky
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stewiey
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Re: Evil and Sexual Gender



paulgoatallen wrote:
Do you think that the representation of evil in Dracula has anything to do with sexual gender?


Not at all.
Evil is evil, men women whatever.
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berri
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Re: Evil and Sexual Gender

There are implications with Dracula and women or at least that's how the author portrays it. Yes, it's a bit sensual but I think evil becomes more solidified if he utilized it towards women (helpless, easy target, etc etc) . At the end, Mina did not succumb entirely to evil.
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paulgoatallen
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Re: Evil and Sexual Gender

So let's make this question black and white – does Stoker portray women as Good or Evil?
"There never can be a man so lost as one who is lost in the vast and intricate corridors of his own lonely mind, where none may reach and none may save..." – Isaac Asimov, Pebble in the Sky
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Peppermill
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Re: Evil and Sexual Gender

[ Edited ]

paulgoatallen wrote:
So let's make this question black and white – does Stoker portray women as Good or Evil?

And so what makes that an answerable, let alone a relevant question? Or didn't you intend it to be so?

How about -- does Stoker portray men as Good or Evil?

Message Edited by Peppermill on 10-14-2007 11:30 PM
"Seize the moments of happiness, love and be loved! That is the only reality in the world, all else is folly. It is the one thing we are interested in here." -- Leo Tolstoy
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PatienceP
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Re: Evil and Sexual Gender

Women are Good. Female vampires are Evil.
* * * * *

Sadness isn't sadness
It's happiness
In a black jacket

--Paul McCartney
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chad
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Re: Evil and Sexual Gender

The dark side, Dracula's side, I think is something we see as evil. But there are male and female vampires. Evil or maybe the source of evil in the story is whatever contravenes Nature or the "natural" order of life. Characters stand in front of postcard images of Nature, but seem somewhat removed, for example. Nature also has two sides, night and day or the metaphysical and the physical, which all characters, have difficulty controlling or reconciling.

Chad
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LordRuthven
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Re: Evil and Sexual Gender

There's an interesting book on the image of women in Victorian era art titled "Idols of perversity." It is all about that weird virgin/demon complex Victorian men had.
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chad
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Re: Evil and Sexual Gender and changing times

My impression is that people don't believe were as conservative, stagnating or sexually repressed as people were in the Victorian era, do you think we're about the same or have we changed? I think Stoker makes the argument that at the heart of the modern woman or the changing times is free trade. The way we were conducting business was changing, old values could not be maintained in modern urban environments.

Chad
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chad
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Sunrises and sunsets

[ Edited ]
Night and day are, of course, reconciled by Nature during sunrises and sunsets, but they don't last very long. Stoker beautifully describes a sunset in Whitby, that, for the most part, gives people a peaceful feeling, perhaps a feeling of stability. But you definately get the feeling that the dark, cloudy side and the light, colorful side of Nature merge into one stunning sunset. Maybe people are naturally drawn to both sunrises and sunsets, or to places like Whitby, where we can view the phenenomenons more fully. What do you think? I lifeguard, the homes and hotels seem to push me in the ocean at times...

Chad

Message Edited by chad on 11-02-2007 03:25 PM
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chad
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Re: Sunrises and sunsets: religion issues

[ Edited ]
The Jesus Christ story provides a balance between metaphysical and the physical side of our world, or night and day, beginning with the immaculate conception. Christianity has lasted for centuries. Providing some stability in a rotating world? Well, maybe. depends on your beliefs!

Chad

Message Edited by chad on 11-03-2007 02:53 PM
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chad
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Jesus Christ, Superstar!

The B&N edition mentions that Dracula is the antichrist, but also seems to be a counter force to the force of JC's. So, if you think of JC's individuality or presence creating waves, like waves from an epicenter of a quake, your own individuality might stand in opposition to those waves, or you can surf the wave, and ride along with the rest of the world history. The energy of the wave dissipates as I travel farther from the epicenter, and, the farther I travel from the time of JC, the weaker I believe, the weaker the force of the religion. So, I, King Satan for example, later decide to combine belief in JC with my own individuality or my own will to survive, and you end up with a somewhat altered Christianity. But then this Dracula guy comes along, and being the antichrist, he seems to be more pure, more sincere- a strange combination of innocence and evil. What say you?

Chad
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chad
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More trashing religion

A lot of Vitorian novels include religious themes or even base characters, in whole or part, on biblical figures, like JC, and I don't mean to trash religion. My belief in JC would be stronger if JC were standing before me. That is, belief would become fact. I'm not sure my sentiment would be true for all Christians.- it's probably something they would argue. But understanding that a physical presence is a at the center of fact and belief is a key point iin understanding the novel. That is, a physical presence, somethig we see, like the the moon or the sun, can create forces that we can sometimes feel, but cannot see. Moreover, forces that we can't see can form something physical or solid. Wind hitting the surface of the ocean is the best example I could bring from my own experiences as a lifeguard and from imagery in the novel.

Chad
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chad
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the holy spirit

[ Edited ]
The belief in the holy spirit has a similiar effect to the belief in JC. It also makes an impact similar to a drop in a pool of water. A countereffect might be the "undead"- a walking army of zombies with no souls.

Chad

PS- An interesting discussion on souls and spirit takes place between Renfield and Seward. Seward grills renfield about consuming other living things by mentioning the possibility that other living things have souls. The belief in the soul may provide the world with some stability. But I wonder if the holy spirit is truly as large as the spirit of an elephant, or if our belief in the holy spirit has magnified the human spirit in some way.

"I don't want an elephant's soul, or any soul at all!" he said. For a few moments he sat despondently. Suddenly he jumped to his feet, with his eyes blazing and all the signs of intense cerebral excitement. "To hell with you and your souls!" he shouted. "Why do you plague me about souls? Haven't I got enough to worry, and pain, to distract me already, without thinking of souls?"

Message Edited by chad on 11-13-2007 12:18 PM
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chad
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The tongue

[ Edited ]
The tongue is the language, but tongue is more "physical" and language is more "metaphysical." It's another example of how metaphysical forces, ultimately arising from the sun and the moon, can influence the physical, or the earthy side. It's difficult to hide our accents and language is just another example of something which keeps us "fixed" or stable- language changes very little through time and is itself almost timeless, with its past, present and future tenses....

Chad

Message Edited by chad on 11-14-2007 05:12 PM
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chad
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Accent and Language

It's difficult to learn a second language or hide our accents and it's amazing how language takes hold of the mind and literally shapes the tongue. For example, the old "Scottish" sailor held a stereotypical, satirical accent and Stoker probably meant to be sardonic. It's also interesting how the character of Dracula has evolved a stereotypical and a somewhat satirical Transylvanian accent. Perhaps we leave ridicule if we think of how are voices are affected by supernatural forces, or affected ultimately by forces emanating from the sun and the moon.
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Metzwar123
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Re: Evil and Sexual Gender

Quoted:demon complex Victorian men had. >>>


Yes, Stoker does fit this category of men with his writing of Dracula. However, the book is beautifully written and makes for great reading. We can only be thankful that men dared to subjugate women in such a romantic fashion a hundred years ago. Its much better than modern horror which is the base equivelent of putting a naked woman in a blender and turning it on high setting and calling it art.

And that comment from the other bloke about this novel portraying a "modern woman" in Mina, in other words, a woman who has an independent sexuality outside of her husband's control, is a brilliant insight. Freud was just starting to get noticed at this time, and Freud, although wrong about 90% of things, at least acknowledged that woman have a sex drive of their own (albeit in crude form of his "penis envy" doctrine).

This novel touches on so many things that the Victorian era could not put into college textbooks for another sixty years! And Stoker got away with it, and he used a supernatural character to "hide" the allegorical significance of the struggles that appeared within communities at the turn of the 20th century.


Regards,
Tom M.
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"Something that is difficult, but necessary, is to love life, even while one suffers. Because to love life is to love all, and to love all is to Love God."
-Leo Tolstoy
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chad
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Re: Evil and Sexual Gender: Freudian psychology

[ Edited ]
There has been some discussion pyschology and obviuously, Stoker's characters, Renfield and Seward, probably represent pyschology's growing "influence." Ultimately, however, I think he saw our minds influenced by external forces, or physical forces, emanating from the earth, the sun and the moon. The superego, ego, and id, for example, might represent the past, present and future, or, the night, sunrise and sunset, and the day, respectively.

Chad

Message Edited by chad on 11-29-2007 11:48 AM
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mrsronaldweasley
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women

I like this question.
Women I believe is portrayed in a very unfair way.
The media’s adaptation of women are sexual beings. The weaker sex, the ones who lead men into temptation.
Who has watched the movie The Passion of The Christ? Did you notice that the devil in the movie looked like a woman? Although it was clarified that the devil wasn’t supposed to be man or woman. The director said women represent temptation.
I think women being seductive shows our power which shouldn’t be given a much more negative meaning. Women should realize this capability and utilize it in a way that society will view us in a different light.
I like this topic about women.
Any other thoughts?
o’~aNd I'm So Sad, LikE a GoOd BooK, I caN't PuT tHis Day BacK~’o
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