Introduce Yourself Here!

[skygoddess]

Hi,

I am returning. I used to belong to BN Univeristy. I miss it so I thought I would try the book club. I live in the midwest and travel for a living. Right not I am enjoying Europe.

[Laurel]

Welcome Sky! What a neat way to earn a living!

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skygoddess wrote:

Hi,

I am returning. I used to belong to BN Univeristy. I miss it so I thought I would try the book club. I live in the midwest and travel for a living. Right not I am enjoying Europe.

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[skygoddess]

I haven't read the Caterbury Tales in a long time and The Fairy Queene to would be nice. I looked at the list and see there are many I wish I was on the board earlier to read.

There are so many!

[Varviktel]

I wish there were a less awkward introductory phrase than "Hi, I'm new!", but I can't seem to think of one at the moment. 

I've long loved reading the classics (the Aeneid, Illiad/Oddyssey, etc) but have done so on my own and recieved many blank stares from my friends as I've attempted to explain the plots to my friends.  I've thought about finding a book club to join but have found all too often that the books being read are new best sellers or some other niche.  That's perfectly fine for everyone else but just not quite what I'm interested in.  I've always wanted to read Danté's Divine Comedy 

[Peppermill]

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Varviktel wrote:

I wish there were a less awkward introductory phrase than "Hi, I'm new!", but I can't seem to think of one at the moment. 

I've long loved reading the classics (the Aeneid, Illiad/Oddyssey, etc) but have done so on my own and recieved many blank stares from my friends as I've attempted to explain the plots to my friends.  I've thought about finding a book club to join but have found all too often that the books being read are new best sellers or some other niche.  That's perfectly fine for everyone else but just not quite what I'm interested in.  I've always wanted to read Danté's Divine Comedy 

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Varviktel  --WELCOME.

Join the fun.  This is my first read of the "real thing."  Not certain what I have gotten myself into, but with the crew of readers here, I know there will be fun and there will be learning!

Hope you find the same and whatever you may be seeking in a reading group!

Pepper

[Laurel]

Welcome, Varviktel! You have certainly come to the right place. Epics, Etc., I mean, not the place we're reading about right now.

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Varviktel wrote:

I wish there were a less awkward introductory phrase than "Hi, I'm new!", but I can't seem to think of one at the moment. 

I've long loved reading the classics (the Aeneid, Illiad/Oddyssey, etc) but have done so on my own and recieved many blank stares from my friends as I've attempted to explain the plots to my friends.  I've thought about finding a book club to join but have found all too often that the books being read are new best sellers or some other niche.  That's perfectly fine for everyone else but just not quite what I'm interested in.  I've always wanted to read Danté's Divine Comedy 

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[cortezoid]

Hi! I'm starting late, and don't plan to play catch-up.  I'm starting right in the middle of "Inferno".  Don't try to stop me, I'm out of control!

[Peppermill]

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cortezoid wrote:
Hi! I'm starting late, and don't plan to play catch-up.  I'm starting right in the middle of "Inferno".  Don't try to stop me, I'm out of control!

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Welcome! Have fun! Good luck!  

(Avid readers do this sort of thing.  Sometimes it works, sometimes it doesn't.  Know you are not alone.)

Pepper 

[Laurel]

Welcome, Cortezoid! That's what epics do: they start in the middle of things.

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cortezoid wrote:
Hi! I'm starting late, and don't plan to play catch-up.  I'm starting right in the middle of "Inferno".  Don't try to stop me, I'm out of control!

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[utopian]

I'm an occasional lurker and I thought I'd mention an idea I had about the Inferno to see what people think.  Book X of Plato's Republic describes the "Myth of Er".  It is an invented story meant to insure good behavior in people who are not able to  understand its benefits.    In this life it is obvious that many evil people prosper while many good people suffer.   So Plato proposes that the people are taught  there is something called the spindle of necessity.  It's a sprial and from the top it looks like a series of circles.  In each circle reside what we call  "sinners".  They are punished according to their "sins" and while they suffer, this is just as they have chosen their punishments by having choseb their crime.  As I recall there's a limbo as well and many other details tha† are very close to the concept of Hell. 

It seems to me that Dante's Inferno has been taken directly from The Republic.  Any ideas?

[Laurel]

Very interesting, Utopian. I'll have to read that part of The Republic again now that Dante is fresh in my mind. Dante did not read Greek, and I don't know whether he had Plato in translation. Anyone?

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utopian wrote:

I'm an occasional lurker and I thought I'd mention an idea I had about the Inferno to see what people think.  Book X of Plato's Republic describes the "Myth of Er".  It is an invented story meant to insure good behavior in people who are not able to  understand its benefits.    In this life it is obvious that many evil people prosper while many good people suffer.   So Plato proposes that the people are taught  there is something called the spindle of necessity.  It's a sprial and from the top it looks like a series of circles.  In each circle reside what we call  "sinners".  They are punished according to their "sins" and while they suffer, this is just as they have chosen their punishments by having choseb their crime.  As I recall there's a limbo as well and many other details tha† are very close to the concept of Hell. 

It seems to me that Dante's Inferno has been taken directly from The Republic.  Any ideas?

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[Peppermill]

I was listening to a DVD this morning where the lecturers (Dr. Catherine Keen, St. John's College, Cambridge; Dr. Anne Lawrence, writer; Dr. Simon Gilson, University of Warwick; Zygmunt Baranski, Professor of Italian Studies, Reading; Dr. Robin Kirkpatrick, Robinson College) suggested that the major sources for Dante were 1) the four poets, Virgil (especially, The Aeneid), Statius, Lucan, and Ovid and 2) the Bible.  One of the lecturers stated that Dante would have had access to "compilations" which were apparently fairly widely available in medieval times.  Another expressed doubt that Dante had a broad library himself.  Later in the DVD, there is a view that Dante would likely have been influenced by sermons.  Dante  was apparently quite aware of his contemporaries and avant garde within his time, even part of a movement of poets called, in English, "the new stylists." 

This does not directly address Utopian's question, but suggests some of the avenues by which Dante may have had access to Plato's ideas.

See also here: Sources for the Dantean Ascent. To find more, try playing with Google's advanced search.  (Utopian, I'd love to hear/see more, but have limited time to pursue myself right now.)

W.I. Thompson (p. 66, here) traces the "Myth of Er" into Virgil's Aeneid.

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Laurel wrote:
Very interesting, Utopian. I'll have to read that part of The Republic again now that Dante is fresh in my mind. Dante did not read Greek, and I don't know whether he had Plato in translation. Anyone?

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utopian wrote:

I'm an occasional lurker and I thought I'd mention an idea I had about the Inferno to see what people think.  Book X of Plato's Republic describes the "Myth of Er".  It is an invented story meant to insure good behavior in people who are not able to  understand its benefits.    In this life it is obvious that many evil people prosper while many good people suffer.   So Plato proposes that the people are taught  there is something called the spindle of necessity.  It's a sprial and from the top it looks like a series of circles.  In each circle reside what we call  "sinners".  They are punished according to their "sins" and while they suffer, this is just as they have chosen their punishments by having choseb their crime.  As I recall there's a limbo as well and many other details tha† are very close to the concept of Hell. 

It seems to me that Dante's Inferno has been taken directly from The Republic.  Any ideas?

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Message Edited by Peppermill on 04-13-2009 03:29 PM

[Shopping4Shoes]

Introduction: Hi,  I'm a high school English Teacher in Delaware and actively teach Dante's Inferno to my AP Lit. classes.  

To comment on the posts made recently:

Dante did not use Plato's Republic as his inspiration. He was well educated and was familiar with Plato's work, but did not rely on that for inspiration. Dante felt he had a personal connection with Virgil.  He, as is obvious from three-quarters of the journey of his Divine Comedy, greatly admired Virgil and tried to not just mimic Virgil's style of writing, but he also truly thought himself an intellectual equal as well. Dante thought they shared similar views on crafting an epic and the conventions that go along with that.  All of Virgil's trademarks are in the epic, but then Dante "one-up's" them making them more suited to his own needs as his story develops. As all epic writers tried to do, it's a game of beating those that came before you so that you can be known as the author of the great epic ever written.  If you're familiar with John Milton's Paradise Lost, he actually spells it out in the first stanza of his epic.  

[utopian]

Thank you for your input.  I'm curious how you know that Dante did not use the Myth of Er.  Is there something I could read to explain why there are such similarities?  This is entirely my own idea.  As I was reading the Inferno it sounded familiar so I re-read book X of the Republic and it sure sounded similar.  Is there another link that I don't know about?  Thanks!

[Laurel]

Welcome, Shopping! I hope you'll be able to read Purgatorio and Paradiso with us and that you will continue to comment.

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Shopping4Shoes wrote:

Introduction: Hi,  I'm a high school English Teacher in Delaware and actively teach Dante's Inferno to my AP Lit. classes.  

To comment on the posts made recently:

Dante did not use Plato's Republic as his inspiration. He was well educated and was familiar with Plato's work, but did not rely on that for inspiration. Dante felt he had a personal connection with Virgil.  He, as is obvious from three-quarters of the journey of his Divine Comedy, greatly admired Virgil and tried to not just mimic Virgil's style of writing, but he also truly thought himself an intellectual equal as well. Dante thought they shared similar views on crafting an epic and the conventions that go along with that.  All of Virgil's trademarks are in the epic, but then Dante "one-up's" them making them more suited to his own needs as his story develops. As all epic writers tried to do, it's a game of beating those that came before you so that you can be known as the author of the great epic ever written.  If you're familiar with John Milton's Paradise Lost, he actually spells it out in the first stanza of his epic.  

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[GuardianPG]

Guardian  

Hey everyone! My name is Pernell Gibson and I am a new up and coming author. Where I am currently in life is not where I want to be in 2 years lol. I currently work for the local community college, and I am working on a series titled 'Guardian: The Beginning'. It's been out since January, and I've still got a ways to go to reach where I wanna be as an author, but I'm loving every minute of the process!

The story takes place in the year 2017, and it follows an emotionally scarred 15 yr. old boy named Psalmulus Grey.  He stumbles across the fact that he has supernatural abilities one day when he somewhat reluctantly comes to the rescue of a young girl being harassed by two thugs in an alley way.

Soon after he finds him self mixed up in a world within our very own society consisting of angels and demons who are working 'behind the scenes' to either further the Father's kingdom, or bring forth Belial's reign on the earth. As Psalmulus soon finds out that he has been chosen by God to carry out his will, the stakes are raised when what's 'behind the scenes' spills over into the mainstream media. Now Psalmulus must choose between using his God given gifts to fulfill God's will or carryout his very own vengeful desires, as he comes across others with the same type of abilities as his.  Some are allies, and some are 'Hell' bent on accomplishing their own elaborate goals.  Many forces from the side of light as well as darkness rise to the occasion to see their goals met, as Psalmulus is forced to do battle with humans and demons alike, but most of all---himself.

[Lenny3]

Just dropping in to say hello.  In the past, I have been predominantly business/finance/self-help books.  I am now trying to spread my wings and fly!

Very interested in sharing thoughts and ideas because I have a few blogs out there that I would like to improve. 

Thanks!

http://www.netvibes.com/lenny3

[EzoRycki]

Hello, my name is Ricky. I'm age 14 but I deeply love Greek Mythology. I was wondering if anyone can suggest a good translation for Dante's Inferno, or the Iliad and the Oddysey.

[Peppermill]

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EzoRycki wrote:
Hello, my name is Ricky. I'm age 14 but I deeply love Greek Mythology. I was wondering if anyone can suggest a good translation for Dante's Inferno, or the Iliad and the Oddysey.

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Ricky -- congratulations on starting your exploration of these great classics so young!

As you probably know, there are a number of translations of each of these -- if you explore the epic threads, you will find some healthy discussions of the strengths and shortcomings of a number of them.  I do encourage you to eventually familarize yourself with several of them -- frequently my favorite approach is to listen to one translation while reading from another.  (If your budget cannot support the audio formats, today many public libraries have them for loan.  I sometimes borrow, sometimes buy.) 

The classic university level translation for both the Illiad and the Odyssey has been the Lattimore translation for many years: They are both widely recognized as fine translations, faithful to the Greek texts as understood and available at the time he did his work.

The Iliad of Homer (Lattimore translation)

Odyssey of Homer

  

But two translators to definitely consider follow:

Fagles is known for the vigor of his language and I suspect might appeal to the young man with a sports or warrior type bent to his personality:

The Iliad and The Odyssey Boxed Set (Fagles translation)  (These are also available individually.)

The language of Fitzgerald is perhaps more subdued and classical than Fagles, but includes advances in understanding of the ancient Greek since the days when Lattimore did his work.  In general, the idiomatic translations will also reflect the changes in English/American usage since the earlier translation.

The Iliad (Fitzgerald translation) 

The Odyssey (Fitzgerald translation)

A number of other interesting translations are available, but if you are looking for something other than a simplified version (and there are probably one or two of those worthy of considation, if that is one's interest), I would start with one of these.  Over your life time, you can explore others (including the original Greek?), but any one of these should give you a solid base.

(For both the Iliad and Odyssey I was able to use the oral recording I had with either Fagles or Fitzgerald.  For the Aenid, these two translators differed enough that I had to match the recording to the book of the translator.)

If someone else doesn't comment, I will touch on the Divine Comedy another time, but I will suggest now that at some time in your life, if you are passionate about this story, your bookcase might well include the translations by Hollander.  Regardless, do explore the Dante Project at Princeton.

Inferno

  

Purgatorio  

Paradiso

[Avid_Book_Read…]

Hello, I'm Avid Book Reader and I love Epics! I took a class devoted to the Epic about a year or so in college and have read The Odyssey, The Aeneid, Saga of the Volsungs, the Nibelungenlied, only a bit of Paradise Lost (quarter system at university doesn't really allow for a lot of reading) and the Divine Comedy. I can't wait to join in the discussions!