Continuing the Epics Group.

[bdNM]

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Choisya wrote:

I have read Finnegans Wake & Ulysses - I like Joyce and I like stream-of-consciousness writing, but I am not sure whether I want to read them in a bookclub as a lot of the pleasure is in the continuous, non-stop, reading of them.  Are you intimating that you do not wish to read Don Quixote, or to lead the group?   

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bdNM wrote:

I have read Ulysses, but it always is ripe for a second, third, fourth, and so on, reading.  There was a bookstore in Kansas City, MO called "Bloomsday Books."  Their name is tied to Ulysses, for every June 16, the city of Dublin celebrates Bloomsday, in honor of the book, and its main character, Leopold Bloom.  Why June 16?  Because it is the date of the action of the book -- June 16, 1904 to be exact. It was, as I understand it, the day that Joyce left Ireland for the continent for good.  Every year, on Bloomsday, they would have readers come and read for 1/2 hour slots from Ulysses for about 10 hours, and they would conclude with a production of a play based on the book, with various people playing the various characters in the work.  They still do the play, but not the reading.  So I could certainly go for Ulysses as well.

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 In suggesting Finnegan's Wake, I was, in part, being selfish.  I have read Ulysses, and enjoyed it thoroughly, but always found myself intimidated by FW -- ideally, what I'd like to find, and probably won't -- I know there's one in Chicago, and one in NYC -- is a group that reads the work aloud and discusses it (rather like a reader's theatre group) over the course of a year.  Barring that, It would be great to find an audiobook of the work, as so much of Joyce is pun based, and some of the puns require an Irish brogue.  The day may come when I just jump in.  As a work for the reading group, I agree that FW is not likely the work to read -- it is very dense, and will, more likely than not, scare away readers.  I'm for staying with the group and and am willing to lead, based on my actually getting the approval from B & N, and learning what I need to do in that capacity.  Thanks, by the way, for your kind words in another message on this topic.

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[Choisya]

I hope you hear soon Bernard - I expect Jon is busy with all the changes!

I don't think you need to bother about knowing Spanish literature - we have done Russian and French literature here without problems.  There is plenty out there in the ether about Spanish picaresque novels etc.  Here, for instance, is an interesting comparison of DQ with Huckleberry Finn. 

And here, should we read Joyce, are some comments on DQ's relationship to his fiction, as well as to other novels.  

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bdNM wrote:

I am willing to do so, but I haven't heard anything yet.  Before I commit to anything, I like to know what my duties will be (the dos and donts of the job), so we'll await further communication from the B & N folks.  I'm not opposed to reading Don Q, but it is rather long -- I'm thinking it's more like a 3 month job, though I haven't read it, so I don't know its level of difficulty.  If we go ahead with Don Q, I hope that we'll have some readers who know a fair amount about Spanish literature on board. 

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[dulcinea3]

I noticed that you are considering Don Quijote, and might consider participating, but that is really bad timing for me.  Next month I am already planning on reading Vanity Fair for Classics and The Mill on the Floss for LbW, which is already a heavy load.  I have Don Quijote in Spanish, but that would probably bog me down considerably; I haven't read it in years.  My parents have an old volume in English, which I retrieved from their house, but I haven't gotten a chance to look at it.  I would guess it might just be the first volume, but I'm not sure.  I don't think I'm that interested in buying a new copy in English.

[Choisya]

I'll be bogged down with you Dulcie because I am doing VF and MoF too!  It will be useful if you can contribute a Spanish dimension to DQ.

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dulcinea3 wrote:

I noticed that you are considering Don Quijote, and might consider participating, but that is really bad timing for me.  Next month I am already planning on reading Vanity Fair for Classics and The Mill on the Floss for LbW, which is already a heavy load.  I have Don Quijote in Spanish, but that would probably bog me down considerably; I haven't read it in years.  My parents have an old volume in English, which I retrieved from their house, but I haven't gotten a chance to look at it.  I would guess it might just be the first volume, but I'm not sure.  I don't think I'm that interested in buying a new copy in English.

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[dulcinea3]

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Choisya wrote:

I'll be bogged down with you Dulcie because I am doing VF and MoF too!  It will be useful if you can contribute a Spanish dimension to DQ.

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dulcinea3 wrote:

I noticed that you are considering Don Quijote, and might consider participating, but that is really bad timing for me.  Next month I am already planning on reading Vanity Fair for Classics and The Mill on the Floss for LbW, which is already a heavy load.  I have Don Quijote in Spanish, but that would probably bog me down considerably; I haven't read it in years.  My parents have an old volume in English, which I retrieved from their house, but I haven't gotten a chance to look at it.  I would guess it might just be the first volume, but I'm not sure.  I don't think I'm that interested in buying a new copy in English.

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I still have a couple of papers I wrote on it when I studied it in college!

[bdNM]

With a user name like Dulcinea3, how can you not participate?  It would be great for you to be along. I now have a copy of the work (in English).  From what I can tell, translations of the entire work run 900-1000 pp. in length, so I'm thinking that a 3 month spread might be right to get the work done.  What think you?  And that older edition of Don Quixote in English might be the translation that Tobias Smollett, the great English picaresque author, did.  It is, I believe, the translation that B & N Classics have.

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dulcinea3 wrote:

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Choisya wrote:

I'll be bogged down with you Dulcie because I am doing VF and MoF too!  It will be useful if you can contribute a Spanish dimension to DQ.

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dulcinea3 wrote:

I noticed that you are considering Don Quijote, and might consider participating, but that is really bad timing for me.  Next month I am already planning on reading Vanity Fair for Classics and The Mill on the Floss for LbW, which is already a heavy load.  I have Don Quijote in Spanish, but that would probably bog me down considerably; I haven't read it in years.  My parents have an old volume in English, which I retrieved from their house, but I haven't gotten a chance to look at it.  I would guess it might just be the first volume, but I'm not sure.  I don't think I'm that interested in buying a new copy in English.

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I still have a couple of papers I wrote on it when I studied it in college!

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[dulcinea3]

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bdNM wrote:

With a user name like Dulcinea3, how can you not participate?  It would be great for you to be along. I now have a copy of the work (in English).  From what I can tell, translations of the entire work run 900-1000 pp. in length, so I'm thinking that a 3 month spread might be right to get the work done.  What think you?  And that older edition of Don Quixote in English might be the translation that Tobias Smollett, the great English picaresque author, did.  It is, I believe, the translation that B & N Classics have.

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dulcinea3 wrote:

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Choisya wrote:

I'll be bogged down with you Dulcie because I am doing VF and MoF too!  It will be useful if you can contribute a Spanish dimension to DQ.

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dulcinea3 wrote:

I noticed that you are considering Don Quijote, and might consider participating, but that is really bad timing for me.  Next month I am already planning on reading Vanity Fair for Classics and The Mill on the Floss for LbW, which is already a heavy load.  I have Don Quijote in Spanish, but that would probably bog me down considerably; I haven't read it in years.  My parents have an old volume in English, which I retrieved from their house, but I haven't gotten a chance to look at it.  I would guess it might just be the first volume, but I'm not sure.  I don't think I'm that interested in buying a new copy in English.

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I still have a couple of papers I wrote on it when I studied it in college!

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I think that three months would be good, especially as I really don't think I'll be able to join in until November.  I think you're about right on the length; without pulling them out, I recall each volume as being about or a little over 500 pages.  If the old book I have is only the first volume, I may have to tackle the second in Spanish.  It's written in a rather archaic Spanish, so not the quickest thing to get through, especially as I have not done much with the language in a very long time.  I'm still not sure - if it's both volumes, the paper must be very thin and the print very small!

[Choisya]

Three months is fine with me - until Xmas perhaps and then start on our next book? 

BTW I just read that DQ is the most translated book after the Bible.  Does this reflect its literary merit or the large number of Spanish speakers in the world, I wonder? 

I will be using my Wordsworth edition. 

[bdNM]

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Choisya wrote:

Three months is fine with me - until Xmas perhaps and then start on our next book? 

BTW I just read that DQ is the most translated book after the Bible.  Does this reflect its literary merit or the large number of Spanish speakers in the world, I wonder? 

I will be using my Wordsworth edition. 

I'll be using the Penguin translation (Robertson, I think).  I read his translator introduction, where he commented on the number of translations, and asked, why another?  He divided translators into the looser translations (Smollett's would be such a translation), in part because of the limits of the translator's Spanish, and the tendency in the 19th and 20th c. to go for more literal translations which lack a lot of the fun.  He said his message was to read the work in Spanish, get a sense of it, and then, after he has a sense of a section, reread and translate it, so that it's neither too loose, nor too literal, but lacking the fun.  So, we'll see.

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[rbehr]

Are we set on DQ for Oct - Dec?  If so, I'll go online and purchase it.

The "Reply" function was picking up the wrong post, so I just copied the messages below. 

Thanks in advance for letting me know

Rae

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Choisya wrote:

Three months is fine with me - until Xmas perhaps and then start on our next book? 

BTW I just read that DQ is the most translated book after the Bible.  Does this reflect its literary merit or the large number of Spanish speakers in the world, I wonder? 

I will be using my Wordsworth edition. 

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bdNM Answered

I'll be using the Penguin translation (Robertson, I think).  I read his translator introduction, where he commented on the number of translations, and asked, why another?  He divided translators into the looser translations (Smollett's would be such a translation), in part because of the limits of the translator's Spanish, and the tendency in the 19th and 20th c. to go for more literal translations which lack a lot of the fun.  He said his message was to read the work in Spanish, get a sense of it, and then, after he has a sense of a section, reread and translate it, so that it's neither too loose, nor too literal, but lacking the fun.  So, we'll see.

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[bdNM]

As far as I'm concerned -- I've  already gone and purchased my copy (Rutherford is the translator, by the way -- I hadn't it nearby and misattributed it).  So far we seem to have only a few on board, though.  Should we go ahead and then we'll see where we go from here, when we get the heads up from B & N.  I've started reading myself.  I find a rather ironic tone in what I've read so far.  It seems as if Cervantes was channeling some of those authors in the MA (Boccaccio, e.g..) who have a rather tongue-in-cheek outlook. 

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rbehr wrote:

Are we set on DQ for Oct - Dec?  If so, I'll go online and purchase it.

The "Reply" function was picking up the wrong post, so I just copied the messages below. 

Thanks in advance for letting me know

Rae

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Choisya wrote:

Three months is fine with me - until Xmas perhaps and then start on our next book? 

BTW I just read that DQ is the most translated book after the Bible.  Does this reflect its literary merit or the large number of Spanish speakers in the world, I wonder? 

I will be using my Wordsworth edition. 

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bdNM Answered

I'll be using the Penguin translation (Robertson, I think).  I read his translator introduction, where he commented on the number of translations, and asked, why another?  He divided translators into the looser translations (Smollett's would be such a translation), in part because of the limits of the translator's Spanish, and the tendency in the 19th and 20th c. to go for more literal translations which lack a lot of the fun.  He said his message was to read the work in Spanish, get a sense of it, and then, after he has a sense of a section, reread and translate it, so that it's neither too loose, nor too literal, but lacking the fun.  So, we'll see.

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[Choisya]

I'm OK to start now but I don't think you will be able to put Chapter threads etc up before you are properly installed Bernard?  Also, some folks may be finishing off their September books in other threads.  

[Jon_B]

Hi guys,

Sorry for the delay, I've been a bit swamped dealing with technical issues lately.  I've set up Bernard with a Reader-Moderator account so you guys should be good to go for Don Quixote next month!

Jon

[Choisya]

Thanks Jon! 

[rbehr]

I'm looking forward to starting Don Quixote.  I picked up the paperback translation by Edith Grossman this weekend.  It seemed to be very readable and a more durable paperback than the other choices at the local BN store.  I figured it had better be durable since it is almost 1,000 pages long!  

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Jon_B wrote:

Hi guys,

Sorry for the delay, I've been a bit swamped dealing with technical issues lately.  I've set up Bernard with a Reader-Moderator account so you guys should be good to go for Don Quixote next month!

Jon

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[dulcinea3]

I think mine is abridged, because it has both volumes and is only about 300 pages long.  It said something about 'meant to be read as a modern novel', or something like that and appears to be based on two 18th-century translations.  Well, since I don't have time to read it until November, I suppose it will make it easier to catch up!  And I can always refer to the Spanish original, where necessary.

[Choisya]

I was just reading about Dulcinea del Toboso the peerless 'lady of his [DQ] thoughts' - were you by any chance named after her?  I hope you are going to be our inspiration

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dulcinea3 wrote:

I think mine is abridged, because it has both volumes and is only about 300 pages long.  It said something about 'meant to be read as a modern novel', or something like that and appears to be based on two 18th-century translations.  Well, since I don't have time to read it until November, I suppose it will make it easier to catch up!  And I can always refer to the Spanish original, where necessary.

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[Jon_B]

Oh by the way guys, I just want to mention this very entertaining book I read some years ago:

Death and Life of Miguel de Cervantes

  

It's basically a semi-fictionalized account of Cerventes' life - a strong grounding in history and very well written and humorous.  It's also a fairly quick read.  I think some of you will enjoy it!

[dulcinea3]

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Choisya wrote:

I was just reading about Dulcinea del Toboso the peerless 'lady of his [DQ] thoughts' - were you by any chance named after her?  I hope you are going to be our inspiration

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dulcinea3 wrote:

I think mine is abridged, because it has both volumes and is only about 300 pages long.  It said something about 'meant to be read as a modern novel', or something like that and appears to be based on two 18th-century translations.  Well, since I don't have time to read it until November, I suppose it will make it easier to catch up!  And I can always refer to the Spanish original, where necessary.

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Yes!  But of course I am the beautiful idealized Dulcinea only, and not the cock-eyed slatternly Aldonza Lorenzo.

[dulcinea3]

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Jon_B wrote:

Oh by the way guys, I just want to mention this very entertaining book I read some years ago:

Death and Life of Miguel de Cervantes

  

It's basically a semi-fictionalized account of Cerventes' life - a strong grounding in history and very well written and humorous.  It's also a fairly quick read.  I think some of you will enjoy it!

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I actually did pick up a biography of Cervantes at B&N a few years back, but have never gotten around to reading it yet.