Early Chapters

[kanellio65]

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Linda10 wrote:

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reina10 wrote:
I guess i will be the first one to say this. I didn't like the characters in this book. I felt the entire family was living in their own little world until Kim went missing. Kim seem ed a bit too self-centered- even for a typical teenager. Fran and Ed's marriage was obviously suffering, while Kim's relationship with her sister was weak (at best). I would have liked to learn more about Kim, or learned more about the inner thoughts of her family.

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Hey, reina10!

I guess I will be the second one to say it. You summed up my feelings thus far about the book so well that I don't really need to add anything. I don't care for this book. (And I'm even one of those people who really enjoyed "The Sister.") It isn't a lousy book; but I just can't care about these people.

I will keep reading and will finish the book because, number one, I'm not a quitter, and, number two, I'm very curious what happened to Kim. Is she alive or dead? Will she be found or become an "unsolved mystery"?

Oh, well, there are plenty of other books to read.

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I am with you all in this. Linda10, I believe we shared similar comments on The Sister as I remember. I have finished the book (no spoilers) but the early chapters were a chore to get through. I started out very optimistically with what I thought would capture my attention but it did only because I found it so hard to follow...or I should say to care to follow. Character development is essential to good writing but this book goes overboard. There are times I lost my place as to who was speaking. There were too many references in the beginning to "clues" that weren't explained. It made it hard to keep track of and I had to keep going back to see who these people and secrets might be about. I didn't get into the book until about page 100 and without saying anymore, as far as the beginning of the book went, I am astonished at all the people's comments here about how wonderful the book is. I guess I missed something as I found myself after about 5 chapters almost not caring as it seemed to take too long to get into plot development. I will be interested to see what you, Linda10, and the few others who agree with you have to say as the book progresses. As you said, thank goodness there are other books out there. I am about to read and review one of O'Nan's earlier books and so hope it is better than my experience with this.

[Linda10]

Hi Kanellio65!

Thank you for your comments.  I do appreciate them.  With all these posts of praise by, seemingly, everyone else, it's nice to know that I'm not alone.  I was beginning to think I was going to have to post something like, "Is there something wrong with me?  Am I missing something?"

Like you, there were times when I couldn't figure out who was speaking, especially at the start of a new chapter.  I have now read through page 162 and, as I said, I will finish the book.  I'm curious about Kim; I'm also curious if it will be one of those books with an ending that made you glad you stuck with it.  Remember, "The Sister" had its big surprise closer to the end.

Well, since today is my birthday, I'm heading off to -- where else?  -- Barnes & Noble!  I'll see what kind of treasure I can pick up there!

[fordmg]

No, see, the thing is, I am not saying they are behaving or not behaving as they should. I am not judging the characters, or their responses, I want to be clear on that, because I would not judge them (I would hope) in real life. What I am saying is, that O'Nan is not great at telling us what they are feeling when he is writing in the 3rd person omniscient and knows what that would be. I am not judging the characters, but the writing style that leaves us flat about a group of people that should be rich in material to write about emotionally. He is not letting us inside enough to really feel for them as we could. When I talk about how little everyone reacts, I am talking about how little the author is showing us, and to me,that is leaving out a really rich resource to tap into for this kind of book. That's what makes the characters frustrating to me, not what Fran does, or Ed, or whoever, but that it just sounds like journaling from a third person so far.
If O'Nan would write more of this, explore more of this, then I would agree with you that... "And this disagreement over whether they're acting appropriately or not might be what O'Nan is going for. .... and then ask ourselves why we come to the conclusions we do."

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The fact that O'Nan does not tell us exactly what the characters are feeling is what I liked about the book.  I think that if he did start to write very emotionally the book would become too much like every other book or TV show involving a missing person.  This is one of the things people were complaining about before the discussion started--the book was too much like every other thing they had read.  I do not agree with this at all.  I think the book was unique just because it did not get overly emotional, it told the story in a way that I feel many people from a more conservative small mid-west town would behave.  Being from such a town myself, I feel that many of us are taught not to display all our emotions in public, some things are just for behind closed doors.  Not that that is always the right way to be and not that we don't have our share of "drama queens".   I just feel like many of us are more private, sometimes not even sharing very personal things with friends.

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If you knew someone actually living this situation, would you know everything in their head?   I think not.  So the way O'Nan portrays the characters lets us feel the tension as it would have really been.

MG

[jb-]

I have read the book twice and still have a lot of questions that are unanswered.  None of the relationships or situations were in depth enough to gain an understanding.  I think that the author left out a lot of emotions and just skimmed the surface.  [edited by moderator. Please limit your comments here to the first group of chapters. Thanks!]

Message Edited by KxBurns on 06-06-2008 12:55 PM

[kiakar]

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fordmg wrote:

No, see, the thing is, I am not saying they are behaving or not behaving as they should. I am not judging the characters, or their responses, I want to be clear on that, because I would not judge them (I would hope) in real life. What I am saying is, that O'Nan is not great at telling us what they are feeling when he is writing in the 3rd person omniscient and knows what that would be. I am not judging the characters, but the writing style that leaves us flat about a group of people that should be rich in material to write about emotionally. He is not letting us inside enough to really feel for them as we could. When I talk about how little everyone reacts, I am talking about how little the author is showing us, and to me,that is leaving out a really rich resource to tap into for this kind of book. That's what makes the characters frustrating to me, not what Fran does, or Ed, or whoever, but that it just sounds like journaling from a third person so far.
If O'Nan would write more of this, explore more of this, then I would agree with you that... "And this disagreement over whether they're acting appropriately or not might be what O'Nan is going for. .... and then ask ourselves why we come to the conclusions we do."

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The fact that O'Nan does not tell us exactly what the characters are feeling is what I liked about the book.  I think that if he did start to write very emotionally the book would become too much like every other book or TV show involving a missing person.  This is one of the things people were complaining about before the discussion started--the book was too much like every other thing they had read.  I do not agree with this at all.  I think the book was unique just because it did not get overly emotional, it told the story in a way that I feel many people from a more conservative small mid-west town would behave.  Being from such a town myself, I feel that many of us are taught not to display all our emotions in public, some things are just for behind closed doors.  Not that that is always the right way to be and not that we don't have our share of "drama queens".   I just feel like many of us are more private, sometimes not even sharing very personal things with friends.

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If you knew someone actually living this situation, would you know everything in their head?   I think not.  So the way O'Nan portrays the characters lets us feel the tension as it would have really been.

MG

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It will be very interesting to find out how O'Nan defends his book. Was he just telling the surface and wanting us to use our imaginations for the dimensions. He has published alot of books not to have aced the writing  bit.Maybe he wants the reader to discover the emotion inside of them that the characters could be feeling. I will have to say , I have finished the book and enjoyed it even though like alot of books with these emotional subjects, it didn't show me the emotion that hits the heart instantanously. But I would love to know what the author thinks. So when he appears, we need to ask him. What his purpose in in writing it this unemotional way. Someone wrote that O'Nan set the story up so well, and yes I agree , so did he do this for us to seek the emotion that was definitely hiding between thelines.

[vivico1]

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fordmg wrote:

No, see, the thing is, I am not saying they are behaving or not behaving as they should. I am not judging the characters, or their responses, I want to be clear on that, because I would not judge them (I would hope) in real life. What I am saying is, that O'Nan is not great at telling us what they are feeling when he is writing in the 3rd person omniscient and knows what that would be. I am not judging the characters, but the writing style that leaves us flat about a group of people that should be rich in material to write about emotionally. He is not letting us inside enough to really feel for them as we could. When I talk about how little everyone reacts, I am talking about how little the author is showing us, and to me,that is leaving out a really rich resource to tap into for this kind of book. That's what makes the characters frustrating to me, not what Fran does, or Ed, or whoever, but that it just sounds like journaling from a third person so far.
If O'Nan would write more of this, explore more of this, then I would agree with you that... "And this disagreement over whether they're acting appropriately or not might be what O'Nan is going for. .... and then ask ourselves why we come to the conclusions we do."

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The fact that O'Nan does not tell us exactly what the characters are feeling is what I liked about the book. I think that if he did start to write very emotionally the book would become too much like every other book or TV show involving a missing person. This is one of the things people were complaining about before the discussion started--the book was too much like every other thing they had read. I do not agree with this at all. I think the book was unique just because it did not get overly emotional, it told the story in a way that I feel many people from a more conservative small mid-west town would behave. Being from such a town myself, I feel that many of us are taught not to display all our emotions in public, some things are just for behind closed doors. Not that that is always the right way to be and not that we don't have our share of "drama queens". I just feel like many of us are more private, sometimes not even sharing very personal things with friends.

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If you knew someone actually living this situation, would you know everything in their head? I think not. So the way O'Nan portrays the characters lets us feel the tension as it would have really been.

MG

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I don't know anyone going through this. I wouldn't know whats going on in their head all the time if I did. That's the point. He is the writer, he knows everything and altho he doesnt have to tell us everything, why can't he let us in so we can care? That's the bonus of this being a book! We can go anywhere in a book, including inside people's heads.
After the initial realization Kim is gone, what tension? Actually, thats the best word for what is missing, tension. I feel about as much tension as hearing on the news something that happened in some other state or country. I may feel bad for them, but they really don't tell me anything to make me feel bad with them. There is a thread about hope, mine is, he's got to get better at writing what is a very tense, emotional story! Otherwise, eh, just another news day on tv. The story idea is great, the characters are good, but..oh welll.

[Everyman]

If you knew someone actually living this situation, would you know everything in their head? I think not. So the way O'Nan portrays the characters lets us feel the tension as it would have really been.

But isn't that the difference between journalism and fiction? The reason that fiction can tell more truth than journalism is that while the journalist should only report the facts as he or she perceives them and not try to go beyond that, taking people and facts as they are not as the journalist wishes or hopes they would be, the fiction writer can and, I believe, should know (and convey to the reader, in various ways, directly or indirectly, by outright statement or carefully crafted innuendo) what is in the minds and hearts of the characters which, after all, he or she has created and should know intimately.

Elizabeth George has some good comments on character knowledge and development in her book Write Away. Her basic viewpoint is that writing begins not with plot or conflict, both of which are vital to a good story, but with characters, with knowing them inside out. I tend to agree with her; those authors I respect and enjoy most are those whose characters are most complex, interesting, and well presented.

[detailmuse]

I'm interested in O'Nan's choice of narrator/point of view in this novel. I'm used to first-person or third-person or alternating narrators, but this seems to be an omniscient narrator -- I don't think I've read a novel in omniscient point of view in a very long time. At times the narration is distanced and documentary, other times we're in the heads of characters -- and it changes from character to character within a chapter, even within a paragraph. I've also had to back up and re-read a few times.

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kanellio65 wrote:
...I found it so hard to follow... (snip) There are times I lost my place as to who was speaking.

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[vivico1]

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Everyman wrote:
If you knew someone actually living this situation, would you know everything in their head? I think not. So the way O'Nan portrays the characters lets us feel the tension as it would have really been.

But isn't that the difference between journalism and fiction? The reason that fiction can tell more truth than journalism is that while the journalist should only report the facts as he or she perceives them and not try to go beyond that, taking people and facts as they are not as the journalist wishes or hopes they would be, the fiction writer can and, I believe, should know (and convey to the reader, in various ways, directly or indirectly, by outright statement or carefully crafted innuendo) what is in the minds and hearts of the characters which, after all, he or she has created and should know intimately.

Elizabeth George has some good comments on character knowledge and development in her book Write Away. Her basic viewpoint is that writing begins not with plot or conflict, both of which are vital to a good story, but with characters, with knowing them inside out. I tend to agree with her; those authors I respect and enjoy most are those whose characters are most complex, interesting, and well presented.

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Absolutely Eman! If I wanted to read about a real case and what happened in it, as best one could tell, I would read a NONfiction book, I have read a lot of nonfiction. But here, I don't want a journalistic version of the lives of a fictional family. I want the richness available to the fiction writer. Pull me into the story, don't write about such an emotional topic with so many characters to draw on, and have them all so flat and then tell me, well you get to assign the emotions to them you want as a reader! That's either hiding bad writing, or lazy. They are your characters, what did you feel when you wrote about them? Were you as detached, or just having a hard time relating to the subject, that you couldn't get past the superficial feelings? Maybe he is a terrific writer about other things, or that require a different style, but hey, as a reader, I think I have the right to say, this isn't working for me and it took me a while to figure out why, but something felt missing right off. When I realized what it was, it had nothing to do with judging how the characters should or shouldnt feel, it had to do with there not being enough written about it to even care the further I go. But as with someone else in here, sorry forgot who, I will finish it to see, if nothing else, what the heck happened to Kim, and is the "secret" more than what has been said so far, cause if thats it, thats kinda disappointing too, its got to be bigger than I have read so far.

Back to reading, and also a Harlan Coben book I am reading out a missing boy lol, just timing of when his new one came out, but what a coincidence and WOW, is it a great book, tension in every chapter and I never guess the ending of his books, until the end. I really feel for the parents in that book who are looking for their son, they are very real, but not over the top, as some worry about. B&N and some of my friends in here, got me hooked on his books, so gotta love the clubs .

Message Edited by vivico1 on 06-04-2008 11:54 AM

[jeanblay]

I know after 100's of replies, it is hard to say something that hasn't been said but...   I find myself wanting to get through the book to find out where Kim is and what the secret is. It definitely keeps ones interest in that respect.  I also feel the same as others about the coolness of the family's reactions.  The only reaction to this situation that seems normal is her father's. He wants to be out there, anywhere, looking for her.  I know I wouldn't be able to hand out fliers and research web sites if one of my daughter's were missing.  I would be an emotional wreck.  Not that it would be a productive reaction, but it seems more of a reaction that a mother would have. Who knows, as stated I have not been through something like this.  Will it be a favorite book that I read? Definitely not. I guess I can categorize it as one that kept my interest and not a struggle to get through.

[bookloverjb85]

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On page 62, J.P. is thinking about his love for Kim and "His thoughts had gone too far, and he focused on a cloud about to cover the sun." Small phrases showing the magnitude of possibly losing someone you care deeply about are what impacted me emotionally. Any of us who have lost someone very close to us knows these feelings, and Mr. O'Nan brings them fully to life with these moments.

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I agree with you. Somehow I haven't gotten into the characters that much, but I do feel the emotions presented by J.P. The fact that he hasn't told anyone what he feels about Kim is heartbreaking. Especially because they believe they cannot continue their relationship after the summer is over. That is the part that evoked the most emotion from me as well.

[niknak13]

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pjpick wrote:

From reading the other posts I'm a wee bit embarrassed. The DQ scene had almost no impact on me. I've been struggling to recall it. It seems it was just painting an everyday picture for me, sort of setting up a backdrop--a basic page out of everyday life. I'll have to go back and reread it.

I've noticed other posters comments about the police's "lack of interest" or "non-chalance" regarding Kim's disappearance. My interpretation is rather different. I see their response as more of a professional distance. I've noticed in my own profession if my emotions take hold of me I'm unable to perform my job as well--that's not to say that I don't experience emotions during my job I just can't let them take over or my job is deeply hampered. I'm assuming the police operate in a similar manner. I would also suspect a small town has very limited resources--I can't recall if the population was mentioned in the book but I lived in a town of 5000 that only had 6 officers.

I'm not bothered by the family's lack of showing emotion at this stage. They appear to be in a state of shock. People also exhibit their emotions in different ways and it has been my experience the more stoic the person the more they fear of losing control--if they lose it they'll never be able to get it back.

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You're not alone in the DQ scene not having much of an impact.  I noted it when I read it.  But, just took it as an older sister that was being nice before leaving her home for the summer.  I also see it as something that Lindsey could question (was Kim running away and that is why she said goodbye that day?). 

I haven't had a problem with the lack of emotion either.  I think that the family has hope still.  They are scared, but they aren't giving up on finding Kim.  They have a mystery/puzzle to solve.  Plus, people react differently to things.  One person could be in a constant state of tears while another would not.  Fran feels like she has to keep it together for the rest of her family.  Lindsey doesn't want any attention drawn to her.  Ed is trying to take some control of the situation and over his life.  (not that I'm saying Fran is not) They are three different people reacting in three different ways to the same situation.  None of them are wrong.  None of them are in any less pain than the others.  I haven't finished the book yet, but I'd imagine that we will see a whole other range of emotions depending on the outcome.

Message Edited by niknak13 on 06-04-2008 12:49 PM

[m3girl]

Hello,

First I have to say - I like this one!

The first chapter provides a good view into the normal world of Kim and her friends, yet perhaps it the G rated version that her parents would prefer to believe.  The author holds back on revealing everything these kids are up to in their last summer before college.  I will have to go back and read the first chapter to see if there is a hint - in the first reading I didn't see one.....but wasn't necessarily looking.

I found this to be a very believalbe and realistic view told in an omniscient POV pulling in on Kim and her sister and friends and then pulling out when she disappears and then back in on her mother when she starts calling around looking for Kim.

POV moves to Kim's father, mother, sister, boyfriend and best friend Nina by chapter, revealing more closely what they are doing and feeling (or not feeling - JP, Nina and Lindsey).  Only two chapters vary from that format - chapter 9 Baby Steps flips around (head hopping) into every one of the main characters - and I am interested to know why the author did this...and chapter 11 returns to the omniscient POV as the report of Kim's disappearance is reported.

I'm attached to the characters because they seem real.  Most women Kim's age have secrets from their parents and families and sometimes bad things happen because of those secrets.  As these secrets were revealed it began to make more sense that this might not be a random abduction - and may not end up well.

The family and their reaction and the tone of the story reminds me of The Lovely Bones in a  way.  But Kim's parents seem to be getting closer due to this tragedy while it was the opposite in L.B.

There is fear in her parents voices as they learn more about their daughter and that they might not really have known her in the recent months/years.  This is very realistic.  And the fact that the sister, Lindsey, knows a few things that the parents don't know about is also realistic - what is with the money?  where did it come from?  where did it go?  And when will she tell about what she knows? Will she ever?  Her friends are different and maybe they know even more than they have revealed in the first 13 chapters. 

The story is moving at a good pace, concentrating on what is important and summarizing the rest.

Where is Kim?  And where is Wooze? 

Susan

[m3girl]

Hey Redhead,

I have to agree with you - especially about not knowing the full story behind the secret.  I am only a few chapters past 13....so I don't know....but a bunch of weed really isn't that big of a deal (and hasn't been for many years).  This leads me to believe there is a whole lot more darkness coming up in the next section.  Can't wait to read it.  I really am liking this one.

Susan

[vcgosox]

I like how the author let you see the impact of Kim's disappearance from each family member. You understand the pressures each family member felt. You saw their concern for Kim and their concern for how other people view their reaction to her disappearance.

People tend to act in their own self interest and you can see that in how some of Kim's friends behave.

[Bonnie824]

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slowReader wrote:

I was taken aback by the way the friends kept information back.  They all questioned, and even thought that their information was important, yet they still did not offer it to the police. instead they chose to protect their selfs then putting their "best friend's" safety first. They understood the severity of the situation when Kim failed to return their calls.

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I don't think they did realize yet it would make that much difference, plus they did not trust the police not to use the information to hurt them, and make Kim look even worse to the police and less like a victim.

[FrankieD]

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dhaupt wrote:

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FrankieD wrote:

I was reading the first part of the while on a trip to Mexico...you know, reading on the jet and in the room. Anyway, I was "moved" by Ed's reaction when he went out to look for Kim on his own. He was well aware that he probably wouldn't find her...but he went all the same. As a father I know that I would do the same, even it just help ease that "helpless" feeling that I'm sure he had.

Well...I just got back from Mexico tonight and will pick-up on my reading tomorrow...for now I definitely need a bit of sleepafter four days of "all-inclusive" insanity...and thirty-seven friends along for the ride.

                                                                                 Good night!!!

                                                                                             FrankieD

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Oh you poor man, I'm sure a lot of us envy your sleep depravation problem.
Now that said I agree with your observation of Ed, I don't think it made his character weak by leaving Fran and Lindsay and looking for Kim on his own. And even though I'm not a man and don't have a mans prospective I applaud his efforts in his search for Kim.

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Thanks...it's just what some men need now and then...applause...for just being themselves. I definitely never even thought of any weakness on Ed's part...and think that even in "real life" we all have different ways to deal with stressful situations and Ed had his.

By the way...I did manage to catch up on my sleep...

   FrankieD

[Jajochku3]

I know this is supposed to be a book discussion, but I'm having a hard time reading other people's comments. 

For starters,  I don't want any spoilers. 

I can't say this is the best book I've ever read, but I'm enjoying that it hasn't been overly dramatic.  And as one of the few comments I read said, the family didn't appear that close.  That doesn't bother me at all.  There was a period of time (around Kim's age) that I wasn't all that close to my family.  It seemed just right that she was distant, as most young people that age are just wanting to get out 'on their own'.

I find myself wanting to skip ahead to find out if they ever find Kim or ever have any answers.  Part of me, wants them to find out.  Part of me, wants it to be a mystery.  It wouldn't be entirely satisfying to end it with no answers, but that's how so many true missing people cases end up.

And to comment on the no grief part. . .

Well, there is a time to be strong and a time to break down.

The family needs to be strong and do what needs done.  Until they know there is something to really break down about, they need to be as strong as possible to help Kim.  I think the few tears is adequate.

Message Edited by Jajochku3 on 06-04-2008 07:40 PM

[Casperette]

I am liking this book!  The family seemed tupical to me....  busy parents and Kim - between college and still at home... a daughter, yet an individual...  parents, parenting an adult....

The search volunteer teams I found to be so true - unfortunately we had a case such as this a few years back right here in our area and this is how they organized the volunteers right down to the "search the area like you are reading a newspaper..."

I am impressed with the authors style and am finding the book hard to put down as I want to plug on and answer the questions that have been layed out for us....  where is Kim?  Who in her circle has information? 

[umlaut]

author has done a great job in outlining the plot of this book in this first chapter. Some amazing set of characters have been described and you do feel as if you know these characters personally. He has also done great job making this whole chapter every picturesque so you can actually feel and visualize all the characters, environment... while all the time you know whats going to happen to Kim but, just how is it going to happen. Well this first chapter answers the first part of the question while leaves to mad, nervous, angry and craving to know more.