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goingeast
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Re: PART FOUR: Hannah's Letter

I, for one, don't believe The Game had much to do with the turn of events. Robbie fell in love with Hannah the first time he saw her, that is evident. He would have found his way back to her no matter what. Remember, she gave him the white ribbon (I believe from her hair) when he left for war. The little book he returned to her was wrapped in the ribbon, now frayed, worn, and brown with age. Hannah doesn't mention to him whether she recognized the ribbon. This is significant to me. I know I would have remembered the ribbon if I had given it to a man. Unless, of course, I had never cared for him to begin with. I think Robbie just filled a void for Hannah, he was someone to replace her father, who loved her and knew her inside and out.
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Everyman
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Re: PART FOUR: Hannah's Letter - Spoilers if you haven't read through page 364


Librarian wrote:
The Game is a precursor to the ultimate tragedy. The Game brought Robbie back into their lives after the war. ...

Ah. I see what you mean. But I have to admit I think it's a stretch. Would Robbie not have looked up the sisters of his dead friend anyhow?

I suppose I should suspend disbelief, but I don't see The Game itself being that important simply because it happened that one of the little books was the thing that David used to send Robbie back to his sisters.

And BTW, how small do we think these books are, or on the other hand, how big is the locket, that one could put an entire little book into it?
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Everyman
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Some unanswered questions

Three (well more than that, but here are three) questions still linger:

1. Why would Mr. Hamilton think that Grace should / would have stayed on at Riverton? She had made the point that she was NOT any longer a mere housemaid, but was a lady's maid. But what possible role would there have been for her at Riverton after Hannah's death? Who would she have transferred to as lady's maid, and if none, why would she want to go back to being a housemaid? She had already had a good offer, and presumably could have gotten another. And, would the family even have wanted her around to remind them of Hannah and her infidelity and misbehavior?

2. Why did Grace wait ten years of menial jobs before using the money that was presumably in the box to make a better life for herself?

3. There must have been a lot of money in the box to have sustained Grace, with both educational fees and living expenses, all the way through the equivalent of high school (remember, she quit school at 14) though university through graduate school. Where did Hannah get that money? Her father had basically lost everything, and there was nothing left for her to inherit, and even if she had, Teddy would have controlled it -- we know that full well from his attitude toward marriage and wives. We never heard of her having any independent fortune, did we? (She married Teddy in part because she didn't have any money.) And when did she put the money in the box? There's no record of her going to London after she decides to run off with Robbie. And if she had it, why didn't she keep it to support her life with Robbie? As a poet with shell-shock, Robbie presumably wasn't making a whole lot of money himself. You would think she would have brought as much money with her flight as she could have. Yet she apparently leaves a quite large chunk for Grace. From what source? And why?
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bentley
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Re: Some unanswered questions


Everyman wrote:
Three (well more than that, but here are three) questions still linger:

1. Why would Mr. Hamilton think that Grace should / would have stayed on at Riverton? She had made the point that she was NOT any longer a mere housemaid, but was a lady's maid. But what possible role would there have been for her at Riverton after Hannah's death? Who would she have transferred to as lady's maid, and if none, why would she want to go back to being a housemaid? She had already had a good offer, and presumably could have gotten another. And, would the family even have wanted her around to remind them of Hannah and her infidelity and misbehavior?

2. Why did Grace wait ten years of menial jobs before using the money that was presumably in the box to make a better life for herself?

3. There must have been a lot of money in the box to have sustained Grace, with both educational fees and living expenses, all the way through the equivalent of high school (remember, she quit school at 14) though university through graduate school. Where did Hannah get that money? Her father had basically lost everything, and there was nothing left for her to inherit, and even if she had, Teddy would have controlled it -- we know that full well from his attitude toward marriage and wives. We never heard of her having any independent fortune, did we? (She married Teddy in part because she didn't have any money.) And when did she put the money in the box? There's no record of her going to London after she decides to run off with Robbie. And if she had it, why didn't she keep it to support her life with Robbie? As a poet with shell-shock, Robbie presumably wasn't making a whole lot of money himself. You would think she would have brought as much money with her flight as she could have. Yet she apparently leaves a quite large chunk for Grace. From what source? And why?




Everyman, I had the distinct feeling that Teddy wanted to have someone to offload bringing up Florence and felt that Grace was that person. Until Deborah put the bee in his bonnet that the child was Robbie's which maybe it was; he had wanted very much for Grace to stay on.

Robbie was made Lord Hunter after all and he may have had some stipend that he was living on because of that title/inheritance. Also, I never thought that Hannah really was going to leave Teddy; it said in the book that she went along with the game and the plans that Robbie was making; not that she was really going to go through with it. I feel that she would have reneged and come back after the lake meeting. Her letters were carefully timed after all; even though she was still duped that Grace knew shorthand which we know she did not.

As far as where Hannah got this money, I can only surmise that she was pilfering some from the household money that possibly Teddy gave her and/or she received some inheritance or stipend when her grandmother and grandfather passed away or maybe a trust when she came of age. Nothing was discussed regarding the source. I do recall that Grace's aunt wondered what Grace's Mom had done with the money she had sent her to live on; I think it was implied that Grace's Mom had squirreled it away for Grace. Also, it is possible that Grace was left some expensive jewelry or family heirlooms which could be apprised and sold. We are never told what was in the box or how much it was. It obviously was enough.
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BookWoman718
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Re: Some unanswered questions

Here are my guesses at the answers to the questions
1. Mr. Hamilton would not have known about Hannah's infidelity as the whole question of what really happened that night was hushed up. A reliable lady's maid would be valuable to the household where Teddy now planned to live a political life, which would no doubt include a new bride, and his sister was there as well. Deborah rightly suspected the paternity of the child, but there's little chance that she would have wanted the scandal known to the servants. Better to allow the child to be adopted - in America - by her aunt.

2. Grace may have been taking menial jobs as she pursued her education and found her way in the world. We have no way of knowing how much capital was provided, but she likely would have not wanted to spend it all down by depending on it entirely.

3. Perhaps the gift was one of property: particularly the jewelry and other gifts given Hannah by her husband. She didn't much value his extravagance and desire to display her like a prize, and Robbie wouldn't have wanted to be living on the proceeds from selling it. As a respected poet, he was not without resources and had displayed a skill for survival and modest but comfortable living.

In my mind, the book becomes its strongest as it nears the end. (Many of the earlier chapters, while well-written, were a bit disappointing as I felt I was embarked on a romance novel (which I never read) rather than a mystery.) I have a strong respect for the ambiguities that the author leaves us with, glimpses of the rest of Grace's life rather than full explanations. Remember that final scene of "Titanic" where the elderly storyteller lies sleeping near a dozen or more pictures of herself in the days after the voyage - flying a plane, riding a horse, exploring exotic places. How satisfying, just to imagine.
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lamorgan
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Re: PART FOUR: Hannah's Letter

I understand now the significance of the shorthand to the author's plan for the direction of the story! Ingenius!
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vivico1
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Re: PART FOUR: Hannah's Letter


Everyman wrote:
I had trouble with the letter.

The letters are, as I recall, placed on Hannah's pillow, so that she will be sure to seem before she goes to bed.

We are told that Hannah knows that Grace can't read shorthand. So Hannah knows that Grace will have to go somewhere else to get the letter to her read. Hannah can hardly expect Grace to do this before she goes to bed, can she? So Hannah knows, or should know, that her letter to Grace won't get read that night.

But Hannah'sletter contains the instruction that Emmeline isn't to get her letter until the next day. So Hannah knows, or should know, that Grace won't get that instruction until the next day, when it no longer matters to have told her that.

I understand why Morton does it this way. In order for events to play out as Morton has designed them to, Hannah has to read the letter to Emmeline that night. But if Hannah had written Grace's letter in English, so that Grace had read it that night, would she have disobeyed a specific directive from Hannah and opened Emmeline's letter that night? If not, things would have turned out much differently.

The sequence of expectations by Hannah that Grace would learn that night not to give the letter to Emmeline doesn't work for me.


Everyman, Hannah did not know Grace could not read shorthand, that was Grace's secret, her lie to stay close to Hannah, remember? She went to have it read to her before so Hannah still wouldnt find out she couldnt read shorthand, so Hannah had no way of knowing Grace could not read it, thus her blaming Grace later. But even with this, all this is still Hannah's fault and Robbie's. It wasnt Grace's fault but she was not that innocent either. She lied about this to keep the relationship with Hannah that she wanted, that was selfish. And she stood back and did nothing, or helped Hannah in her intrigue knowing it was wrong and dangerous, again, just to keep Hannah close rather than doing the right thing and stopping her for her own sake. Each have their own secrets in this, each things to be guilty of, but this ending was purely Hannah's and Robbie's.
Vivian
~Those who do not read are no better off than those who can not.~ Chinese proverb
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vivico1
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Re: PART FOUR: Hannah's Letter


Everyman wrote:


vivico1 wrote:
The guilt of the tragedy with Robbie, lies squarely with Hannah herself and with Robbie.

I don't agree. They had made reasonable arrangements initially to keep their relationship secret, and when it came to light they made reasonable arrangements to escape during the confusion of the great party and go off and start a life together. Teddy would never have given Grace grounds for divorce. Hannah tried as best she could to find the independence, excitement, and love that she had craved for so many years.

But for Grace's interference, she might well have achieved it.


Everyman, what is reasonable in adultery? What is reasonable in hiding from everyone your relationship other than knowing its absolutely wrong? Teddy may not have given Hannah grounds for divorce and when she and Robbie talk about that he hasnt, I laughed at this, thinking, HELLO!! YOU are the one's giving TEDDY grounds for divorce! She could have told him the truth and that she was going to leave and he would have got rid of her easily to her shame and maybe his discomfort but not his fault. Its not Grace's fault they fell to their own selfish "love". I put that in parenthesis because real love is not based on sins and lies.
Vivian
~Those who do not read are no better off than those who can not.~ Chinese proverb
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vivico1
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Re: PART FOUR: Hannah's Letter


Everyman wrote:


KxBurns wrote:
Who could have imagined that one small white lie all those years ago would play such a pivotal role in the lives of so many people

I'm not clear which white lie you're referring to.

If you're referring to not telling the truth about Robbie's death, lying to cover up murder (or manslaughter, depending on how you interpret it) is hardly a white lie. It's a crime.

Is it some other white lie you're referring to?


The little white lie was that Grace was taking shorthand too, when she didnt. Hannah didnt know this, so she had no way of knowing Grace could not read that last note.
Vivian
~Those who do not read are no better off than those who can not.~ Chinese proverb
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Tarri
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Re: Some unanswered questions



Everyman wrote:
2. Why did Grace wait ten years of menial jobs before using the money that was presumably in the box to make a better life for herself?

3. There must have been a lot of money in the box to have sustained Grace, with both educational fees and living expenses, all the way through the equivalent of high school (remember, she quit school at 14) though university through graduate school. Where did Hannah get that money? Her father had basically lost everything, and there was nothing left for her to inherit, and even if she had, Teddy would have controlled it -- we know that full well from his attitude toward marriage and wives. We never heard of her having any independent fortune, did we? (She married Teddy in part because she didn't have any money.) And when did she put the money in the box? There's no record of her going to London after she decides to run off with Robbie. And if she had it, why didn't she keep it to support her life with Robbie? As a poet with shell-shock, Robbie presumably wasn't making a whole lot of money himself. You would think she would have brought as much money with her flight as she could have. Yet she apparently leaves a quite large chunk for Grace. From what source? And why?





It may not have been money, it could have been jewelry or Hannah could have sold some of the "trinkets" Teddy brought her back from his trips. Also, they had a Picasso hanging in the library, perhaps there were things like that Hannah sold and left for Grace.

Toward the very end Grace said something about the key in the locket and not hearing it when the locket was given to her by Hannah. Maybe she didn't open the locket until she returned from the war.

As to not needing the money to support her life with Robbie, it is possible that he had more than enough from his father and his books to keep them.
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vivico1
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Re: PART FOUR: Hannah's Letter


hpthatbme wrote:
I think that Grace is at guilt for the white lie about reading shorthand, but for the ultimate ending I don't think so. I think that she did what she thought was right, if put in the same situation I am not sure that I would have reacted differently. Grace was doing what she thought was her duty, she also wanted to protect and keep Hannah for herself. As others have mentioned I think that the relationship Grace wanted was unhealthy and somewhat obsessive but did lady maids have somewhat of the same relationship with their ladies?


Exactly hpthatbme! You said it. Grace's guilt was the white lie and the relationship she was trying to build on it but not the outcome, that was the guilt of the lovers. I agree with you. I think lady's maids were very protective of their ladies, and felt probably a closeness to them but yeah, Grace's was unhealthy and obsessive.
Vivian
~Those who do not read are no better off than those who can not.~ Chinese proverb
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psujulie
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Re: PART FOUR: Hannah's Letter

I don't know if I'd go so far to say that Grace's guilt was warranted, but I can certainly understand how the guilt must have eaten away at her. Having that guilt does explain a lot about her behavior, especially not wanting to get close to anyone (even her daughter). I wonder if her job in a hospital during WWII was sort of a penance for her. Maybe she didn't really feel like she "deserved" to have the responsibility of a child.

I think it's tragic that a "little white lie" that Grace told when she was still very young (I think 15 years old) had such a strong impact on so many lives, especially her own. Saying that, I'm not sure that Hannah's original plan would have played out any differently.
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vivico1
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Re: Some unanswered questions


bentley wrote:

Everyman wrote:
Three (well more than that, but here are three) questions still linger:

1. Why would Mr. Hamilton think that Grace should / would have stayed on at Riverton? She had made the point that she was NOT any longer a mere housemaid, but was a lady's maid. But what possible role would there have been for her at Riverton after Hannah's death? Who would she have transferred to as lady's maid, and if none, why would she want to go back to being a housemaid? She had already had a good offer, and presumably could have gotten another. And, would the family even have wanted her around to remind them of Hannah and her infidelity and misbehavior?

2. Why did Grace wait ten years of menial jobs before using the money that was presumably in the box to make a better life for herself?

3. There must have been a lot of money in the box to have sustained Grace, with both educational fees and living expenses, all the way through the equivalent of high school (remember, she quit school at 14) though university through graduate school. Where did Hannah get that money? Her father had basically lost everything, and there was nothing left for her to inherit, and even if she had, Teddy would have controlled it -- we know that full well from his attitude toward marriage and wives. We never heard of her having any independent fortune, did we? (She married Teddy in part because she didn't have any money.) And when did she put the money in the box? There's no record of her going to London after she decides to run off with Robbie. And if she had it, why didn't she keep it to support her life with Robbie? As a poet with shell-shock, Robbie presumably wasn't making a whole lot of money himself. You would think she would have brought as much money with her flight as she could have. Yet she apparently leaves a quite large chunk for Grace. From what source? And why?




Everyman, I had the distinct feeling that Teddy wanted to have someone to offload bringing up Florence and felt that Grace was that person. Until Deborah put the bee in his bonnet that the child was Robbie's which maybe it was; he had wanted very much for Grace to stay on.

Robbie was made Lord Hunter after all and he may have had some stipend that he was living on because of that title/inheritance. Also, I never thought that Hannah really was going to leave Teddy; it said in the book that she went along with the game and the plans that Robbie was making; not that she was really going to go through with it. I feel that she would have reneged and come back after the lake meeting. Her letters were carefully timed after all; even though she was still duped that Grace knew shorthand which we know she did not.

As far as where Hannah got this money, I can only surmise that she was pilfering some from the household money that possibly Teddy gave her and/or she received some inheritance or stipend when her grandmother and grandfather passed away or maybe a trust when she came of age. Nothing was discussed regarding the source. I do recall that Grace's aunt wondered what Grace's Mom had done with the money she had sent her to live on; I think it was implied that Grace's Mom had squirreled it away for Grace. Also, it is possible that Grace was left some expensive jewelry or family heirlooms which could be apprised and sold. We are never told what was in the box or how much it was. It obviously was enough.


Yeah, I think Mr Hamilton and even Teddy wanted Grace to stay. Mr Hamilton because she was part of the servant family and they loved her now and didnt know where she would go or what she would do. (Plus they knew who she was Hannah's sister). As for both of them, all of them actually, they may know Grace was down there that night, running up for help but no one knows of her complicity in what Hannah and Robbie were doing, that was still her secret.

I think the money from Hannah came from money from Teddy or her married side of life, not from any inheritance from her family when they were sinking. I think it was some she got closer to the end, part of the plan. It was almost like her letter to Emmeline and her money and best wishes to Grace were her will, even tho she didnt die in the water, just last things she wanted to do for the two she cared about. I am sure too, if you think about it, she had probably a pretty sizable amount of money on her too, when she was packed to leave, cause Robbie wasnt exactly raking in the money. They would need money.
Vivian
~Those who do not read are no better off than those who can not.~ Chinese proverb
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nickco3
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Re: PART FOUR: Hannah's Letter

[ Edited ]

vivico1 wrote:

hpthatbme wrote:
I think that Grace is at guilt for the white lie about reading shorthand, but for the ultimate ending I don't think so. I think that she did what she thought was right, if put in the same situation I am not sure that I would have reacted differently. Grace was doing what she thought was her duty, she also wanted to protect and keep Hannah for herself. As others have mentioned I think that the relationship Grace wanted was unhealthy and somewhat obsessive but did lady maids have somewhat of the same relationship with their ladies?


Exactly hpthatbme! You said it. Grace's guilt was the white lie and the relationship she was trying to build on it but not the outcome, that was the guilt of the lovers. I agree with you. I think lady's maids were very protective of their ladies, and felt probably a closeness to them but yeah, Grace's was unhealthy and obsessive.




I agree VERY obsessive. At the end of the book, I wasn't even sure I liked Grace. She hurt so many people protecting and honoring Hannah. Emmeline, Teddy, Alfred. I don't know Hannah and Grace seemed a little selfish if ya ask me. Grace life consisted of protecting Hannah, and herself if you ask me. What would have happened if Grace told the truth, Emmeline, and Hannah would have protected each other, where would that leave Grace. In the end Grace seemed no better than her own mother. Am I being a little harsh?

Message Edited by nickco3 on 01-14-2008 09:31 PM
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vivico1
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Re: PART FOUR: Hannah's Letter


nickco3 wrote:


vivico1 wrote:

hpthatbme wrote:
I think that Grace is at guilt for the white lie about reading shorthand, but for the ultimate ending I don't think so. I think that she did what she thought was right, if put in the same situation I am not sure that I would have reacted differently. Grace was doing what she thought was her duty, she also wanted to protect and keep Hannah for herself. As others have mentioned I think that the relationship Grace wanted was unhealthy and somewhat obsessive but did lady maids have somewhat of the same relationship with their ladies?


Exactly hpthatbme! You said it. Grace's guilt was the white lie and the relationship she was trying to build on it but not the outcome, that was the guilt of the lovers. I agree with you. I think lady's maids were very protective of their ladies, and felt probably a closeness to them but yeah, Grace's was unhealthy and obsessive.




I agree VERY obsessive. At the end of the book, I wasn't even sure I liked Grace. She hurt so many people protecting and honoring Hannah. Emmeline, Teddy, Albert. I don't know Hannah and Grace seemed a little selfish if ya ask me. Grace life consisted of protecting Hannah, and herself if you ask me. What would have happened if Grace told the truth, Emmeline, and Hannah would have protected each other, where would that leave Grace. In the end Grace seemed no better than her own mother. Am I being a little harsh?


I dont think its harsh at all.
Vivian
~Those who do not read are no better off than those who can not.~ Chinese proverb
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Peppermill
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Re: Some unanswered questions


bentley wrote {excerpt}: ... Also, I never thought that Hannah really was going to leave Teddy; it said in the book that she went along with the game and the plans that Robbie was making; not that she was really going to go through with it. I feel that she would have reneged and come back after the lake meeting. Her letters were carefully timed after all; even though she was still duped that Grace knew shorthand which we know she did not....

Hannah may have been "duped", but was she very observant or thoughtful? Did she ever see Grace absent such that she might be learning shorthand? Apparently Hannah never asked Grace to take shorthand dictation from her, although Hannah did give Grace a letter to transcribe. Was Hannah ever astute (out of her personal fog?) enough to wonder how Grace had enough money to obtain shorthand lessons? I can understand such misunderstanding at 14-15 yrs, but after ten years together?

Is there a significant difference between Grace's original lie (to protect her own privacy in a world that denied any right to such? to possibly save her job and her way of living? to prevent the loss of material goods that she had earned?) and the perpetuation of that lie, which now became a supposed shared secret?

Are there analogies here between the guilt a child feels when parents divorce or a parent or sibling dies? I.e., the child feels he/she caused it because ...
"Seize the moments of happiness, love and be loved! That is the only reality in the world, all else is folly. It is the one thing we are interested in here." -- Leo Tolstoy
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bentley
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Re: Some unanswered questions



Peppermill wrote:

bentley wrote {excerpt}: ... Also, I never thought that Hannah really was going to leave Teddy; it said in the book that she went along with the game and the plans that Robbie was making; not that she was really going to go through with it. I feel that she would have reneged and come back after the lake meeting. Her letters were carefully timed after all; even though she was still duped that Grace knew shorthand which we know she did not....

Hannah may have been "duped", but was she very observant or thoughtful? Did she ever see Grace absent such that she might be learning shorthand? Apparently Hannah never asked Grace to take shorthand dictation from her, although Hannah did give Grace a letter to transcribe. Was Hannah ever astute (out of her personal fog?) enough to wonder how Grace had enough money to obtain shorthand lessons? I can understand such misunderstanding at 14-15 yrs, but after ten years together?

Is there a significant difference between Grace's original lie (to protect her own privacy in a world that denied any right to such? to possibly save her job and her way of living? to prevent the loss of material goods that she had earned?) and the perpetuation of that lie, which now became a supposed shared secret?

Are there analogies here between the guilt a child feels when parents divorce or a parent or sibling dies? I.e., the child feels he/she caused it because ...




Hannah was observant and thoughtful about things that mattered most to her; she certainly was one to plan intrigue and adventures which were based upon perfect timing and the details all falling into place. I think that Hannah was quite egocentric and probably didn't notice things or people as much as she was wrapped up in herself. Hannah never would wonder how Grace would get such money because she really didn't care. I cannot understand why Grace never came clean after all those years either and perpetuated the lie. Maybe she felt that down deep she could not trust Hannah and though she wanted to be accepted as a sister; she knew that she would never achieve that status in Hannah's eyes and that she had better watch her back and protect her livelihood. But since she was keeping so many other secrets of Hannah's, I would have thought she had some leverage to unload this baggage from the past. I don't personally see any analogy between the guilt a child feels and what Grace did. I still think Grace's was premeditated and meant to protect her and her newly purchased asset.

Bentley
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darcymack
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Re: PART FOUR: Hannah's Letter

I cannot believe that a secret, such as pretending to be able to read short hand should have caused such an event. I do not believe it is Grace's fault, but the fault lies more with Hannah. Grace had one secret. Hannah had many....starting with learning shorthand, and ending with the affair with Robbie.
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goingeast
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Re: PART FOUR: Hannah's Letter

[ Edited ]

darcymack wrote:
I cannot believe that a secret, such as pretending to be able to read short hand should have caused such an event. I do not believe it is Grace's fault, but the fault lies more with Hannah. Grace had one secret. Hannah had many....starting with learning shorthand, and ending with the affair with Robbie.




Hey darcymack,

I would have to agree with you. The whole shorthand thing is a bit farfetched. First of all, how did Hannah know that after all those years had passed, that Grace still knew shorthand? Shorthand must be practiced much like any other language. We know that Grace never wrote anything to Hannah in shorthand (obviously, because we know Grace wasn't taking shorthand lessons, only sneaking off to buy a book). What on Earth made Hannah think the girl knew shorthand well enough to risk such important information about her plan to leave town? Wouldn't it have been easier for her to just tell Grace her intentions rather than leave a suspicious note lying around. Don't you think that if Deborah found the note written in shorthand that she would have found someone to interpret it? It's ridiculous! Of course, the author needed something for Grace to be guilty about for the rest of her life. But, it could just have been that Hannah left a note for Emmeline and Grace decided to read it before the next day. Then, assuming that Hannah was going to commit suicide, events still would have turned out the same, and Grace could still feel guilty. We really didn't need the shorthand note at all.

I also agree with you that the fault falls completely on Hannah. All she had to do was throw the gun in the lake. But if you remember, Hannah was haunted by the spiritualist's predictions of doom and gloom which preoccupied her mind very much. Hannah, being the most dramatic one in the group, couldn't have done something simple (like throw the gun in the lake) no, she had to kill someone = self-fulfilling prophecy. Why is it she never confronted Grace about not knowing shorthand? She only made one comment about it to Grace a long time later.

It's interesting also that shell shock is mentioned so often in regard to those who came back from war. Those who were not in it, especially women, could only guess what the ravages of war are like. I would venture to guess that Hannah, Emmeline, and Grace now knew what it was like for those who had to kill or be killed. They all suffered from shell shock, watching Robbie's brains being blown all over the place. Remember the description of blood? The colors, the sounds? Yes, they were shell shocked. Now Grace knew how Alfred felt when he came back, the look on his face she never seemed to understand.

Sorry for going on so long:smileyhappy:

Message Edited by goingeast on 01-15-2008 09:15 AM

Message Edited by goingeast on 01-15-2008 09:21 AM
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vivico1
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Re: PART FOUR: Hannah's Letter


goingeast wrote:

I also agree with you that the fault falls completely on Hannah. All she had to do was throw the gun in the lake. But if you remember, Hannah was haunted by the spiritualist's predictions of doom and gloom which preoccupied her mind very much. Hannah, being the most dramatic one in the group, couldn't have done something simple (like throw the gun in the lake) no, she had to kill someone = self-fulfilling prophecy. Why is it she never confronted Grace about not knowing shorthand? She only made one comment about it to Grace a long time later.




hey goingeast,
I have to disagree with you on this part, thowing the gun in the lake would not be enough to keep one of those women from getting hurt and maybe killed. Robbie was charging in a state of severe shell shock and was going to kill someone. He came close before, he didnt need the gun, the girls sure did at this point. He wasnt charging to hurt Emmeline just because she was trying to stop them, he heard those very loud fireworks and was back in the war.

One of my stepfathers was a POW in Japan as a very young man 19 in WWII for two years. The beat him, tortured him, pulled his teeth with pliers, killed many of his friends in horrible ways and left them for the prisoners to bury and because of being malnourished for two years, developed severe diabetes when he got home. He had bad dreams decades later when we came to know him, and he got sick and was a very frail man from the diabetes and smoking and this was in his 50s. One time, he went into a diabetic seizure and when they got this sick frail man to the hospital, and had him on the table in ER trying to get an IV in him, he thought he was on a table again and that they were Japs, trying to tie him down. It took FOUR big tough young orderlies to come in and hold him down so they could work on him before he destroyed the place.

If Robbie got to either of those girls, in his state, someone would be dead. Hannah could not afford to toss the gun and running wouldnt help either.
Vivian
~Those who do not read are no better off than those who can not.~ Chinese proverb
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