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AllieK
Posts: 55
Registered: ‎12-19-2007
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Re: PART FOUR: Hannah's Story

KXBurns

"Aside from the excitement of an illicit affair, what do you think motivates Hannah's relationship with Robbie?"

I think she saw in him what she was missing in her life. The adventure and knowledge of other places that Robbie has seen and been a part of excited her. She seemed to 'feast' for knowledge, whether about far away places, lives, politics..whatever she could get a hold of. She definitely was ahead of her time, of not wanting to be pigeoned holed into being the lovely wife at home..she just wanted more!
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vivico1
Posts: 3,456
Registered: ‎10-19-2006
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Re: PART FOUR: Hannah's Story


AllieK wrote:
KXBurns

"Aside from the excitement of an illicit affair, what do you think motivates Hannah's relationship with Robbie?"

I think she saw in him what she was missing in her life. The adventure and knowledge of other places that Robbie has seen and been a part of excited her. She seemed to 'feast' for knowledge, whether about far away places, lives, politics..whatever she could get a hold of. She definitely was ahead of her time, of not wanting to be pigeoned holed into being the lovely wife at home..she just wanted more!


yep, got to agree with you there.
Vivian
~Those who do not read are no better off than those who can not.~ Chinese proverb
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penny70
Posts: 31
Registered: ‎10-19-2006
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Re: PART FOUR: Hannah's Story

I think Robbie represented a tie to and replacement for her brother. I think he made the loss of David less jarring and not seem as of a third of herself was removed from her being.
Frequent Contributor
bentley
Posts: 2,509
Registered: ‎01-31-2007
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Re: PART FOUR: Hannah's Story



AllieK wrote:
You guys are talking about stuff (the lake incident) that hasn't happened by this chapter..That event doesn't come out til "The Tape", which is almost the end of the book!! I believe I am right about this...




Guess nobody realized it and responded to the previous posts. Glad you caught it.
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Gypsygirl2
Posts: 3
Registered: ‎12-07-2007
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Re: PART FOUR: Hannah's Story

I think there were quite a few things going on for Hannah that resulted in her involvement with Robbie. I feel that The Game was fueled her wonderlust and her wishes to have adventures in a life that was filled with nothing more that Society. Hannah wanted more that being a Society wife. I think that she wanted to have a little of both worlds - Society and wonderlust. Teddy promised her adventures and did not make good on his promises. She was somewhat manipulated into getting married when Fanny told her how "independant" she was as a married woman.

Robbie presented an opportunity to fulfill the wonderlust aspect of life for Hannah. He also a woke in her pleasures from lovemaking that Teddy had not. I think her reluctance to leave Teddy at first was based on fear of actually daring to have the wonderlust fulfilled. She also felt some duty as his wife, but realized that she was not getting anything that she wanted out of the marriage.

I agree that she was not malicious in her dealings with Emmeline since she only viewed her as her little sister who was not serious about anything but partying. She proved this in the end when "the elastic that was stretched did not break, but snapped back together".

It seems in the end her ladies's maid got to see the world and have the adventures that Hannah always wanted.
Books are our gateway to adventure and the mind enjoys such!
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ashleym919
Posts: 8
Registered: ‎10-10-2007
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Re: PART FOUR: Hannah's Story

I didn't like the transition to Hannah's perspective in this chapter. I felt that it broke up the pace of the rest of the book which has been consistent in Grace's point of view. Unlike other readers, I didn't mind that there are "conveniences" to Grace's knowledge and eavesdropping. Life is nothing if not a set of coincidences.

More and more I find Hannah a terribly selfish and unlikable character. I am unable to find sympathy for her because of her poor attitude. She is clearly using her sister who she knows gets attached to men for little or no reason being a true romantic. Though I do believe she cares for Robbie in some way, I think their relationship is more about escaping a life she hates, finding part of herself that was lost when her brother went to war and died -- at least in the beginning.

I have read on other message boards that Frederick is a selfish man, which I never agreed with. Perhaps that is because he remains such a mystery throughout the book and we never hear his side of things. Perhaps that is why I can forgive him and not Hannah.
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KxBurns
Posts: 1,006
Registered: ‎09-06-2007
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Re: PART FOUR: Hannah's Story



ashleym919 wrote:
I didn't like the transition to Hannah's perspective in this chapter. I felt that it broke up the pace of the rest of the book which has been consistent in Grace's point of view. Unlike other readers, I didn't mind that there are "conveniences" to Grace's knowledge and eavesdropping. Life is nothing if not a set of coincidences.

More and more I find Hannah a terribly selfish and unlikable character. I am unable to find sympathy for her because of her poor attitude. She is clearly using her sister who she knows gets attached to men for little or no reason being a true romantic. Though I do believe she cares for Robbie in some way, I think their relationship is more about escaping a life she hates, finding part of herself that was lost when her brother went to war and died -- at least in the beginning.

I have read on other message boards that Frederick is a selfish man, which I never agreed with. Perhaps that is because he remains such a mystery throughout the book and we never hear his side of things. Perhaps that is why I can forgive him and not Hannah.



I have to agree with your view of Hannah. Although I do concede that she was, to a certain degree, a product of her circumstances, can anyone think of a truly unselfish act Hannah has commited up to this point?
Frequent Contributor
ELee
Posts: 418
Registered: ‎10-26-2006
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Eyes

"His [Robbie's] eyes met hers. Such dark eyes. Like wet paint; full of secrets."

I thought of two things when I read these lines.

The first was the closeup of Omar Sharif's eyes in Dr. Zhivago. Large, liquid, sensitive eyes.

The second was Grace's description of Ursula's eyes on p. 328.
"Those large dark eyes: eyes that belong in an oil painting."
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cocospals
Posts: 115
Registered: ‎12-25-2007
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Re: PART FOUR: Hannah's Story

I have alot of mixed feelings in this chapter.

1. I was touched when Robbie returned the book Hannah gave David "return this to Nefretiti".
2. I really want to reach out and slap Deborah. I find she is sneaky and coniving.
3. Deborah verbalizes a dislike for travel when Robbie is talking about his with words like "primitive", "ghoulish" and "dusty" yet she does travel to Paris. Hannah would love to travel more...
4. Deborah backstabs Hannah by planting thoughts in Teddys mind about Robbie and Hannahs "friendship". Every family's gotta have one !
5. I truly think that Hannah's affair with Robbie is not love but another adventure for her. Sneak around, be mysterious, try not to get caught and use Emmeline as a decoy. Teddy thinks Robbie and Emmeline are together, Emmeline thinks they are together, only Hannah and Robbie knows they are not.
Ability may get you to the top, but it takes character to keep you there - John Wooden
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kiakar
Posts: 3,435
Registered: ‎10-19-2006
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Re: PART FOUR: Hannah's Story



COCOSPALS wrote:
I have alot of mixed feelings in this chapter.

1. I was touched when Robbie returned the book Hannah gave David "return this to Nefretiti".
2. I really want to reach out and slap Deborah. I find she is sneaky and coniving.
3. Deborah verbalizes a dislike for travel when Robbie is talking about his with words like "primitive", "ghoulish" and "dusty" yet she does travel to Paris. Hannah would love to travel more...
4. Deborah backstabs Hannah by planting thoughts in Teddys mind about Robbie and Hannahs "friendship". Every family's gotta have one !
5. I truly think that Hannah's affair with Robbie is not love but another adventure for her. Sneak around, be mysterious, try not to get caught and use Emmeline as a decoy. Teddy thinks Robbie and Emmeline are together, Emmeline thinks they are together, only Hannah and Robbie knows they are not.




I guess it was thoughtful that Robbie returned the book Hannah gave her brother but it seemed Robbie probably would have came back to see Hannah anyway. Since he seemed to be already infaiuated with Hannah when he arrived.
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kiakar
Posts: 3,435
Registered: ‎10-19-2006
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Re: PART FOUR: Hannah's Story



COCOSPALS wrote:
I have alot of mixed feelings in this chapter.

1. I was touched when Robbie returned the book Hannah gave David "return this to Nefretiti".
2. I really want to reach out and slap Deborah. I find she is sneaky and coniving.
3. Deborah verbalizes a dislike for travel when Robbie is talking about his with words like "primitive", "ghoulish" and "dusty" yet she does travel to Paris. Hannah would love to travel more...
4. Deborah backstabs Hannah by planting thoughts in Teddys mind about Robbie and Hannahs "friendship". Every family's gotta have one !
5. I truly think that Hannah's affair with Robbie is not love but another adventure for her. Sneak around, be mysterious, try not to get caught and use Emmeline as a decoy. Teddy thinks Robbie and Emmeline are together, Emmeline thinks they are together, only Hannah and Robbie knows they are not.




Yes, if we only could reach out and slap Deborah. She really irritated me to no end.
If Teddy really loved and wanted a good relationship with Hannah, he would have told that sister of his to but out of their affairs, better yet, packed her bags and told her to hit hay somewhere else.
Wordsmith
kiakar
Posts: 3,435
Registered: ‎10-19-2006
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Re: PART FOUR: Hannah's Story



kiakar wrote:


COCOSPALS wrote:
I have alot of mixed feelings in this chapter.

1. I was touched when Robbie returned the book Hannah gave David "return this to Nefretiti".
2. I really want to reach out and slap Deborah. I find she is sneaky and coniving.
3. Deborah verbalizes a dislike for travel when Robbie is talking about his with words like "primitive", "ghoulish" and "dusty" yet she does travel to Paris. Hannah would love to travel more...
4. Deborah backstabs Hannah by planting thoughts in Teddys mind about Robbie and Hannahs "friendship". Every family's gotta have one !
5. I truly think that Hannah's affair with Robbie is not love but another adventure for her. Sneak around, be mysterious, try not to get caught and use Emmeline as a decoy. Teddy thinks Robbie and Emmeline are together, Emmeline thinks they are together, only Hannah and Robbie knows they are not.




I guess it was thoughtful that Robbie returned the book Hannah gave her brother but it seemed Robbie probably would have came back to see Hannah anyway. Since he seemed to be already infaiuated with Hannah when he arrived.




So Deborah kind of controls her brother. That is a little sick. She can say that Robbie doesnt like to travel, and he doesn't. I dont think he was worth the hassle for Hannah. I know she expected more from him and this marriage. Maybe things would have been different if Teddy had stepped up and been a husband.
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mrstreme
Posts: 15
Registered: ‎12-20-2007
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Re: PART FOUR: Hannah's Story

Penny, I think you hit the nail on the head. Hannah truly misses her brother and regrets how things were left between them before he headed off to the war.

As her affair with Robbie transpires, I do believe that Hannah develops feelings for Robbie, but it all started as a brother surrogate, in my opinion.




penny70 wrote:
I think Robbie represented a tie to and replacement for her brother. I think he made the loss of David less jarring and not seem as of a third of herself was removed from her being.


Inspired Correspondent
EbonyAngel
Posts: 276
Registered: ‎12-22-2006
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Re: PART FOUR: Hannah's Story



KxBurns wrote:
The introduction of this chapter provides a nice transition into Hannah's point-of-view. It's a savvy way for Morton to allow us into details of Hannah's life to which Grace would not have otherwise been privy.

Thus we learn that Hannah has made a temporary escape into a "secret world" with Robbie Hunter. It is The Game that brings him back into Hannah's life, and their affair is filled with the same kind of clandestine missions that characterized the childish diversion. Hannah seems to live out Robbie's comment that it is "Better to lose oneself in action than wither in despair" (p. 366).

Aside from the excitement of an illicit affair, what do you think motivates Hannah's relationship with Robbie?

Were you disappointed in Hannah's manipulation of Emmeline? Do you think she really believes Emmeline is not attached to Robbie, or does Hannah convince herself of that to minimize her guilt?

There are so many other things of note in this chapter. Here are a few:
- Deborah is a woman scorned, and I'm not sure she’s fully extracted her revenge
- Deborah believes servants are like children, but for the most part it is the servants who are the minders of their employers, isn't it?
- What is the significance of the title of Robbie's book of poetry, Progress and Disintegration?
- In the wake of their father's death, both Hannah and Emmeline are spiraling out of control. What is Grace's role, if any, in all this?
- Hannah refers to letting Robbie plan their "great escape" as a game. Maybe she has no intention of running away with him?

What did you think?

Karen




I sorta liked the changing of views from Grace to Hannah. It helped the story along. I think that from what Hannah told her, page 359, she might have deduced some of it though from what happened later.
I also think that Hannah did see her affair with Robbie as part of "The Game". There were 3 to play. Hannah, Robbie and Grace. Emmeline wasn't really considered at all.
I did not like Deborah from the start. I knew she was going to cause some kind of trouble. Question-what is a seven-letter word starting with b______ that means an error of judgement?
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kmliska
Posts: 24
Registered: ‎12-25-2007
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Re: PART FOUR: Hannah's Story

I really enjoyed reading this chapter from Hannah's point of view. I think if this part of the story was told by Grace a lot of the details would have been left out. I believe Hannah had an affair with Robbie because she was bored and was looking for adventure. Also we know she loves to have secrets. She was not happy with the way her life had become and she saw a way to escape it by being with Robbie.

I did not like the way Hannah used Emmeline to continue seeing Robbie. It was not a good idea to put Emmeline into the middle because we know from her past that she is a romantic and it seems obvious that she would form feelings for Robbie. I believe Hannah was convincing herself that Emmeline was not becoming attached because she wanted to have a reason to continue to see Robbie.

I think Hannah knew Robbie was not okay after the fight and didn't want to risk upsetting him so she let him plan their escape. I don't really think she intended to leave with him she just wanted him to be happy. She wasn't taking it seriously but he was.
Inspired Correspondent
nfam
Posts: 231
Registered: ‎01-08-2007
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Re: PART FOUR: Hannah's Story

I didn't like this chapter. I had gotten used to Grace's point of view and found Hannah a different character from the way she was presented through Grace's eyes. That being said, it's a necessary chapter. Without a view of the love affair the ending (Robbie's suicide) wouldn't make sense. We get a good look at the upstairs in this chapter and frankly it isn't pretty. Hannah lives in a fantasy world. She can't seem to come to grips with reality. I'd say Robbie's real attraction is the clandestine nature of their affair, but then isn't that true for many affairs. I found it particularly unattractive to use Emmeline as an unwitting go between. Emmeline was clearly becoming infatuated with Robbie. It seemed cruel to use her, but there are many cruel aspects to this web on interactions.

Frankly as the chapter ended, I wasn't at all sure that Hannah would follow through and go away with Robbie. It seemed like another game, a way to keep him entertained.

Obviously Deborah is going to play a part in making the final tragedy. She feels like the wicked witch hovering in the background.

A very interesting chapter. We can see the fog gathering and the end approaching.

Nancy
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KxBurns
Posts: 1,006
Registered: ‎09-06-2007
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Re: PART FOUR: Hannah's Story



EbonyAngel wrote:
I sorta liked the changing of views from Grace to Hannah. It helped the story along. I think that from what Hannah told her, page 359, she might have deduced some of it though from what happened later.
I also think that Hannah did see her affair with Robbie as part of "The Game". There were 3 to play. Hannah, Robbie and Grace. Emmeline wasn't really considered at all.
I did not like Deborah from the start. I knew she was going to cause some kind of trouble. Question-what is a seven-letter word starting with b______ that means an error of judgement?




Blunder. It's in the next sentence, after Deborah asks the question. "At dinner a few nights later, Deborah took revenge for Robbie's blunder" (p. 377). :smileyhappy:

Karen
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KxBurns
Posts: 1,006
Registered: ‎09-06-2007
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Re: PART FOUR: Hannah's Story


kmliska wrote:
I believe Hannah had an affair with Robbie because she was bored and was looking for adventure. Also we know she loves to have secrets. She was not happy with the way her life had become and she saw a way to escape it by being with Robbie.

I did not like the way Hannah used Emmeline to continue seeing Robbie. It was not a good idea to put Emmeline into the middle because we know from her past that she is a romantic and it seems obvious that she would form feelings for Robbie. I believe Hannah was convincing herself that Emmeline was not becoming attached because she wanted to have a reason to continue to see Robbie.

I think Hannah knew Robbie was not okay after the fight and didn't want to risk upsetting him so she let him plan their escape. I don't really think she intended to leave with him she just wanted him to be happy. She wasn't taking it seriously but he was.



Hannah's manipulation of Emmeline and her disregard for her sister's feelings for Robbie is shocking because it is such a turn-around from the Hannah of earlier in the story. In the chapter "Bankers," Emmeline teases Hannah about a suitor whose attentions Hannah fails to entertain, and Hannah asserts that it would be wrong to lead the young man on. "I wasn't going to make a promise I couldn't keep," she says to Emmeline (p.196).

And yet here she is allowing her sister's affections to be toyed with, and possibly midleading Robbie about her seriousness about running away together.

What factors do you think have contributed to this dramatic change in Hannah's character?

Karen
Wordsmith
maude40
Posts: 357
Registered: ‎10-19-2006
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Re: PART FOUR: Hannah's Story

I think Hannah is so bored with life she loses it. She can't stand her unfulfilled existence and goes off the deep end. It is , I believe Fredericks dying, Teddys absence at being a husband, and the Luxton's manipulation of her life that sends her into this life of danger.
Yvonne
Wordsmith
maude40
Posts: 357
Registered: ‎10-19-2006
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Re: PART FOUR: Hannah's Story

What a great line on page 397 describing men returning from war, "That's why nobody talks about it, he said. They know that if they do, people will see them for what they really are. Members of the devils party amid the regular people as though they still belong. As if they're not monsters returned from a murderous rampage." This describes Robbie's state of mind. Hannah is toying with a sick man.
Yvonne
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