PART FOUR: Slipping Out of Time and The End

[cocospals]

The scene where Marcus tells Grace how he kept the picture with him was so sweet. It is clear that Marcus does cherish his Grandmother. It is never really discussed how Grace became and archiologist, just references made to it. I was a little concerned about the reference that Ursula is Florences granddaughter. I tried to do the math but not sure it works. It was so nice to hear Grace did hook up with Alfred again at age 65. I am glad Marcus is going to write Grace's memoirs, could it be that the authors Grandmothers memoirs is what is the basis for this book? And when they sit down to watch the movie in Grace's room, Marcus and Ursula sit together and share a whispered conversation. Could this be the beginning of the end of Marcus's grief or is this two authors/screenwriters/movie folks bond?

The End was beautifully written and again, so touching. To "see" her Mother and Hannah, the two most important women in Grace's life, and wanting to go with them was just beautiful.

I think these two were my favorite chapters of the book.

[kiakar]

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COCOSPALS wrote:
The scene where Marcus tells Grace how he kept the picture with him was so sweet. It is clear that Marcus does cherish his Grandmother. It is never really discussed how Grace became and archiologist, just references made to it. I was a little concerned about the reference that Ursula is Florences granddaughter. I tried to do the math but not sure it works. It was so nice to hear Grace did hook up with Alfred again at age 65. I am glad Marcus is going to write Grace's memoirs, could it be that the authors Grandmothers memoirs is what is the basis for this book? And when they sit down to watch the movie in Grace's room, Marcus and Ursula sit together and share a whispered conversation. Could this be the beginning of the end of Marcus's grief or is this two authors/screenwriters/movie folks bond?

The End was beautifully written and again, so touching. To "see" her Mother and Hannah, the two most important women in Grace's life, and wanting to go with them was just beautiful.

I think these two were my favorite chapters of the book.

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Yes, this was a beautiful chapter, it really made the book worthwhile even though it was alot of drama through the book that kept you going.

[3M]

From whom does Grace need forgiveness?

I believe she mostly needed it from herself.

[kiakar]

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3M wrote:
From whom does Grace need forgiveness?

I believe she mostly needed it from herself.

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That does sound right! No one else. Alot of other people needed to ask for forgiveness from Grace.

[Librarian]

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bookhunter wrote:
..

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What is the Shakespeare technique where at the end of the tragedy, everyone is dead except a couple of minor characters?(It has been a while since my Shakespeare days!) They make a speech that looks ahead into the future, or something like that. That is what I thought Marcus and Ursula represented with their little "connection."

Ann, bookhunter

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Bookhunter------I don't know what the technique is called. But I think your observation about Marcus and Ursula really fits that description. Great observation!
Librarian

[nfam]

I was disappointed in the hints of romance and happily ever after in these chapters. Grace dies happy because she has finally communicated the secret to Marcus on tape. That was well done, but I felt the story didn't lend itself to happy endings. People made destructive choices throughout the story. I felt it was too much wrapping it up in a bow to have Alfred find Grace and live happily with her for twenty years. It made me feel like the author copped out at the end and threw a bone to the romantics. Maybe that's what sells books. It might have been too depressing otherwise.

Nancy

[vivico1]

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nfam wrote:
I was disappointed in the hints of romance and happily ever after in these chapters. Grace dies happy because she has finally communicated the secret to Marcus on tape. That was well done, but I felt the story didn't lend itself to happy endings. People made destructive choices throughout the story. I felt it was too much wrapping it up in a bow to have Alfred find Grace and live happily with her for twenty years. It made me feel like the author copped out at the end and threw a bone to the romantics. Maybe that's what sells books. It might have been too depressing otherwise.

Nancy

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Nancy,
I agree with you totally. I felt like we read about 485 pages of the most depressing people, with no real suprises except ONE and then yeah, in the last couple of pages threw us a bone of happily ever after. I found Alfred one of the more sympathetic characters and after the way Grace treated him time after time, I wanted him to move on and be happy WITHOUT her. Maybe that little page or paragraph of oh! she and Alfred did get together later and lived a long happy life and gee there may be a new romance blooming, felt to me fake, like a bone to us just to maybe get a "romance" title for shelving or something.

[goingeast]

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vivico1 wrote:

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nfam wrote:
I was disappointed in the hints of romance and happily ever after in these chapters. Grace dies happy because she has finally communicated the secret to Marcus on tape. That was well done, but I felt the story didn't lend itself to happy endings. People made destructive choices throughout the story. I felt it was too much wrapping it up in a bow to have Alfred find Grace and live happily with her for twenty years. It made me feel like the author copped out at the end and threw a bone to the romantics. Maybe that's what sells books. It might have been too depressing otherwise.

Nancy

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Nancy,
I agree with you totally. I felt like we read about 485 pages of the most depressing people, with no real suprises except ONE and then yeah, in the last couple of pages threw us a bone of happily ever after. I found Alfred one of the more sympathetic characters and after the way Grace treated him time after time, I wanted him to move on and be happy WITHOUT her. Maybe that little page or paragraph of oh! she and Alfred did get together later and lived a long happy life and gee there may be a new romance blooming, felt to me fake, like a bone to us just to maybe get a "romance" title for shelving or something.

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Yes Vivian,

I agree with you totally. I felt that Grace didn't deserve Alfred. I think I would have preferred it if Alfred and Emmeline wound up together. Of course, they were from two diffferent classes, but it just would have been a nicer match. Funny, it's never mentioned that Grace told "the truth" to Alfred. Guess he still wasn't good enough for her to confide in him.

Message Edited by goingeast on 01-20-2008 11:02 AM

[vivico1]

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goingeast wrote:

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vivico1 wrote:

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nfam wrote:
I was disappointed in the hints of romance and happily ever after in these chapters. Grace dies happy because she has finally communicated the secret to Marcus on tape. That was well done, but I felt the story didn't lend itself to happy endings. People made destructive choices throughout the story. I felt it was too much wrapping it up in a bow to have Alfred find Grace and live happily with her for twenty years. It made me feel like the author copped out at the end and threw a bone to the romantics. Maybe that's what sells books. It might have been too depressing otherwise.

Nancy

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Nancy,
I agree with you totally. I felt like we read about 485 pages of the most depressing people, with no real surprises except ONE and then yeah, in the last couple of pages threw us a bone of happily ever after. I found Alfred one of the more sympathetic characters and after the way Grace treated him time after time, I wanted him to move on and be happy WITHOUT her. Maybe that little page or paragraph of oh! she and Alfred did get together later and lived a long happy life and gee there may be a new romance blooming, felt to me fake, like a bone to us just to maybe get a "romance" title for shelving or something.

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Yes Vivian,

I agree with you totally. I felt that Grace didn't deserve Alfred. I think I would have preferred it if Alfred and Emmeline wound up together. Of course, they were from two different classes, but it just would have been a nicer match. Funny, it's never mentioned that Grace told "the truth" to Alfred. Guess he still wasn't good enough for her to confide in him.

Message Edited by goingeast on 01-20-2008 11:02 AM

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I wanted Alfred to stay out of this dysfunctional family altogether and pictured him getting together with that woman he went out with to make Grace jealous, Frederick's sec. She seemed like a nice woman, a very nice woman and they would have been more equal in station and out of that whole family mess! Sorry I cant think of her name right now.

[kiakar]

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Librarian wrote:

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bookhunter wrote:
..

---

What is the Shakespeare technique where at the end of the tragedy, everyone is dead except a couple of minor characters?(It has been a while since my Shakespeare days!) They make a speech that looks ahead into the future, or something like that. That is what I thought Marcus and Ursula represented with their little "connection."

Ann, bookhunter

---

Bookhunter------I don't know what the technique is called. But I think your observation about Marcus and Ursula really fits that description. Great observation!
Librarian

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Wow! Bookhunter, I like that also!

[KxBurns]

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vivico1 wrote:
I wanted Alfred to stay out of this dysfunctional family altogether and pictured him getting together with that woman he went out with to make Grace jealous, Frederick's sec. She seemed like a nice woman, a very nice woman and they would have been more equal in station and out of that whole family mess! Sorry I cant think of her name right now.

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You're thinking of Lucy Starling and he did get together with her -- they got married, remember?!

The whole thing about Grace and Alfred getting together didn't strike me so much as a last ditch effort to make the story a romance, as it was an indication that maybe they were meant to be together and eventually it happened. And I didn't think it meant he wasn't happy in his earlier marriage, either. Just that life is long and sometimes these things do work out. I thought a small glimmer of hope was welcome after so much sadness!

It raises the question of fate, though. How much of a role does fate play in the events we've read about so far? Was Hannah fated to die young because her fortune teller saw the death card? Was it fate that brought Robbie back into her life, or just circumstance? I'm personally falling on the side of circumstance.

[vivico1]

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KxBurns wrote:

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vivico1 wrote:
I wanted Alfred to stay out of this dysfunctional family altogether and pictured him getting together with that woman he went out with to make Grace jealous, Frederick's sec. She seemed like a nice woman, a very nice woman and they would have been more equal in station and out of that whole family mess! Sorry I cant think of her name right now.

---

You're thinking of Lucy Starling and he did get together with her -- they got married, remember?!

The whole thing about Grace and Alfred getting together didn't strike me so much as a last ditch effort to make the story a romance, as it was an indication that maybe they were meant to be together and eventually it happened. And I didn't think it meant he wasn't happy in his earlier marriage, either. Just that life is long and sometimes these things do work out. I thought a small glimmer of hope was welcome after so much sadness!

It raises the question of fate, though. How much of a role does fate play in the events we've read about so far? Was Hannah fated to die young because her fortune teller saw the death card? Was it fate that brought Robbie back into her life, or just circumstance? I'm personally falling on the side of circumstance.

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You're right they did get married. It was such a short reference I forgot and forgot if she died or they divorced? I still would have preferred to have seen their marriage last till the day they both died. Guess its the desire to see at least one couple in this book, start off in a good way and stay happy, just once! lol

[ELee]

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COCOSPALS wrote:
I am glad Marcus is going to write Grace's memoirs,...

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By telling Marcus the "true" story of what happened at The House at Riverton and [presumably] his writing about it at some future date, Grace has fulfilled rule #2 of The Game.

1. The Game is Secret
2. All journeys, adventures, explorations and sightings must be recorded.
3. Only three may play.

[maude40]

I loved that Alfred and Grace got together in the end. It was the bright spot on the horizon of many tragic lives.
I also loved the chapter on Grace's death. It was very moving. She died surrounded by loved ones watching her life pass before her eyes.
Yvonne

[Kimmi373]

The predominate type of love explored in this book seems to be love of the obsessive kind, Hannah and Robbie and Grace and Hannah. The only thing that bothers me is that the obsessive, often unhealthy, love prevails in the end. Hannah apparently appears to lead Grace on; I guess I would have liked Albert to be the one, real love prevailing.

I too am glad that Grace ended up with Albert, but I am glad the author made it a late in life reunion. The Grace Albert proposed to could not love him, she was to obsessed with Hannah. Grace needed to distance herself from that person before she could become the person Albert deserved.

Also, wouldn't it have been interesting if someone commented that Ursula and Grace or Ursula and Ruth or Ursula and Marcus or even Ursula commenting that Grace and her grandma Florence, had similar coloring? The "Hartford coloring"?

[lamorgan]

It was Tom Clancy who said: "The difference between fiction and reality? Fiction has to make sense."

[KathyS]

Karen,
My thinking is along these lines, also. Time is a big player in all of our lives. What circumstances interject themselves at any given time? is not always under our control. I think it was a nice touch that Kate gave Grace back to Alfred, and Alfred back to Grace. It wasn't necessary to the story to go into great detail on this reuniting. If they were happy in their union, which I think they were, then it was truly meant to be. Their living their lives, making their choices, in the in-between times, brought them back to each other probably with greater meaning and joy.

As far as Hannah and Robbie, it would have been circumstances, also. But who really is to know what fate is? It was planned, obviously by them, but all those best laid plans don't always come to the best endings.

And Yes, it was an incredibly sad half of a novel. I wondered at this, as I read it all the way through, yesterday. I was shocked at some of these abrupt moments, when a life ended, or changed course without gentleness. I wanted time to mourn for these characters, and Kate wasn't allowing it to happen. I reflected on all of those moments, and found that that is what writing poetry is like. It's life in its essence. Every line can't always be happiness and gayety. Every day can't bring the perfect sunrise or sunset. Having Robbie as a character brought these heartbreaking moments into perspective, for me. I could literally feel those inner passions, and I think Kate carried it within her story, as well.

As I said to her, it was a roller coaster ride to the end. The orchestration of those last few chapters was certainly like listing to music. Every line to me became a note that was played. Some sharp, some flat, some soft, some loud, but always seamlessly connected.

Sorry for getting so carried away with my thoughts, here, but it was quite an emotional day for me [still fresh in my mind], when the story came to its final ending..

Kathy S.

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KxBurns wrote:

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vivico1 wrote:
I wanted Alfred to stay out of this dysfunctional family altogether and pictured him getting together with that woman he went out with to make Grace jealous, Frederick's sec. She seemed like a nice woman, a very nice woman and they would have been more equal in station and out of that whole family mess! Sorry I cant think of her name right now.

---

You're thinking of Lucy Starling and he did get together with her -- they got married, remember?!

The whole thing about Grace and Alfred getting together didn't strike me so much as a last ditch effort to make the story a romance, as it was an indication that maybe they were meant to be together and eventually it happened. And I didn't think it meant he wasn't happy in his earlier marriage, either. Just that life is long and sometimes these things do work out. I thought a small glimmer of hope was welcome after so much sadness!

It raises the question of fate, though. How much of a role does fate play in the events we've read about so far? Was Hannah fated to die young because her fortune teller saw the death card? Was it fate that brought Robbie back into her life, or just circumstance? I'm personally falling on the side of circumstance.

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[Popper19]

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KathyS wrote:
Karen,
My thinking is along these lines, also. Time is a big player in all of our lives. What circumstances interject themselves at any given time? is not always under our control. I think it was a nice touch that Kate gave Grace back to Alfred, and Alfred back to Grace. It wasn't necessary to the story to go into great detail on this reuniting. If they were happy in their union, which I think they were, then it was truly meant to be. Their living their lives, making their choices, in the in-between times, brought them back to each other probably with greater meaning and joy.

As far as Hannah and Robbie, it would have been circumstances, also. But who really is to know what fate is? It was planned, obviously by them, but all those best laid plans don't always come to the best endings.

And Yes, it was an incredibly sad half of a novel. I wondered at this, as I read it all the way through, yesterday. I was shocked at some of these abrupt moments, when a life ended, or changed course without gentleness. I wanted time to mourn for these characters, and Kate wasn't allowing it to happen. I reflected on all of those moments, and found that that is what writing poetry is like. It's life in its essence. Every line can't always be happiness and gayety. Every day can't bring the perfect sunrise or sunset. Having Robbie as a character brought these heartbreaking moments into perspective, for me. I could literally feel those inner passions, and I think Kate carried it within her story, as well.

As I said to her, it was a roller coaster ride to the end. The orchestration of those last few chapters was certainly like listing to music. Every line to me became a note that was played. Some sharp, some flat, some soft, some loud, but always seamlessly connected.

Sorry for getting so carried away with my thoughts, here, but it was quite an emotional day for me [still fresh in my mind], when the story came to its final ending..

Kathy S.

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KxBurns wrote:

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vivico1 wrote:
I wanted Alfred to stay out of this dysfunctional family altogether and pictured him getting together with that woman he went out with to make Grace jealous, Frederick's sec. She seemed like a nice woman, a very nice woman and they would have been more equal in station and out of that whole family mess! Sorry I cant think of her name right now.

---

You're thinking of Lucy Starling and he did get together with her -- they got married, remember?!

The whole thing about Grace and Alfred getting together didn't strike me so much as a last ditch effort to make the story a romance, as it was an indication that maybe they were meant to be together and eventually it happened. And I didn't think it meant he wasn't happy in his earlier marriage, either. Just that life is long and sometimes these things do work out. I thought a small glimmer of hope was welcome after so much sadness!

It raises the question of fate, though. How much of a role does fate play in the events we've read about so far? Was Hannah fated to die young because her fortune teller saw the death card? Was it fate that brought Robbie back into her life, or just circumstance? I'm personally falling on the side of circumstance.

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KathyS

I loved your post. I too really enjoyed and was touched by this book.

[kiakar]

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lamorgan wrote:
It was Tom Clancy who said: "The difference between fiction and reality? Fiction has to make sense."

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I like that statement. Reality doesn't is very very true. Especially these reality shows they now have on every channel of the TV world.

[vivico1]

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kiakar wrote:

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lamorgan wrote:
It was Tom Clancy who said: "The difference between fiction and reality? Fiction has to make sense."

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I like that statement. Reality doesn't is very very true. Especially these reality shows they now have on every channel of the TV world.

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oh come on Kiakar, you dont want to run "The Amazing Race" with me?? I Like that one If not I bet I could get Wrighty to hehe.