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dhaupt
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Re: PART FOUR: The Beginning of the End



Peppermill wrote:
"...sometimes I just want to kick her."

Why?



dhaupt wrote:
I don't agree that Hannah is a realist and I don't think Deborah meant it either I think she was being sarcastic. But if I were asked to label Hannah I would probably say Idealist.

The damage brought on by secrets to the Hartford's are many. The untimely death's of Jonathan's second son, Grace's parentage, Emmeline's shaded past and Hannah's affair with Robbie and I'm sure I've missed twenty or so along the way.

I don't think secrets can be blamed for Frederick's death, I think it was because of his failures that drove him to his decline.

I think the loss is pretty equal between Hannah and Robbie.

I think in her heart of hearts Grace is devastated by the news of Alfred and Lucy's wedding, but after a minute she pulls herself up by the bootstrings and becomes the maid again, sometimes I just want to kick her.





Because in my heart of hearts I always vote for the happy sappy ending
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fordmg
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Re: PART FOUR: The Beginning of the End



ashleym919 wrote:
Karen-
Emmeline professes her love for Robbie in this chapter and I was left wondering if this, combined with Deborah's ultimatum, will be enough to make Hannah forsake Robbie. Who has more to lose if the relationship ends, Robbie or Hannah?


I do not believe Emmeline's feelings would be enough for Hannah to end her relationship with Robbie. Hannah has always believed that Emme is a romantic girl who is ignorant of the ways of the world and falls in love with just any man. I doubt Hannah would ever consider that Emmeline is truly in love with Robbie.

It seems to me that Deborah's threat would be of a motivation for her to end the relationship. However love often blinds people, and I (from the foreshadowing in the book) do not believe that moving to Riverton will end her affair.

Above all, Hannah needs the escape from a life she hates. Robbie has offered her that, and I don't think she will want to give it up. Robbie doesn't seem mentally stable enough to end the affair on his own accord either.

Is this all a recipe for disaster (well, I guess it is since we know he dies at Riverton).




Deborah's threat is in the extreme. She is saying that she will do away with Robbie if Hannah doesn't give it up. Hannah would give it up to save Robbie's life. That is a strong motivation.
MG
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fordmg
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Re: PART FOUR: The Beginning of the End



COCOSPALS wrote:
My feelings about Deborah being a "snake in the grass" pans out in this section. She is more than willing to expose Hannahs affair with Robbie. But what would she gain from it, Teddy's respect, hope that he will leave his wealth to her rather than Hannah or is she just one of those people who gain pleasure from making others squirm. I also feel Grace does regret not marrying Alfred.




Deborah is just a mean spirited person. She is still getting back at Robbie for his previous spurn. It is power that she has now over Hannah, and she loves it.
MG
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m3girl
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Re: PART FOUR: The Beginning of the End

Notes from the chapter:

1. It would be right that Deborah and her snoopy maid figure out Hannah's secret. The story needed someone like Deborah and she is well characterized. She wants to be in charge and have the upper hand - and now she does over Hannah when she bans her from seeing Robbie. I don't even think she is thinking about her brother at this moment - rather she is driven by Robbie's rejection.

2. I am saddened but not surprised by the news of Alfred and Lucy's wedding. Grace had several chances with him but her loyalties were with Hannah. Shoulda, woulda, coulda....
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Peppermill
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Re: PART FOUR: The Beginning of the End

[ Edited ]

dhaupt wrote:

Peppermill wrote:
"...sometimes I just want to kick her."

Why?

dhaupt wrote:
I don't agree that Hannah is a realist and I don't think Deborah meant it either I think she was being sarcastic. But if I were asked to label Hannah I would probably say Idealist.

The damage brought on by secrets to the Hartford's are many. The untimely death's of Jonathan's second son, Grace's parentage, Emmeline's shaded past and Hannah's affair with Robbie and I'm sure I've missed twenty or so along the way.

I don't think secrets can be blamed for Frederick's death, I think it was because of his failures that drove him to his decline.

I think the loss is pretty equal between Hannah and Robbie.

I think in her heart of hearts Grace is devastated by the news of Alfred and Lucy's wedding, but after a minute she pulls herself up by the bootstrings and becomes the maid again, sometimes I just want to kick her.

Because in my heart of hearts I always vote for the happy sappy ending.
Debbie -- loved you response! It left me smiling. Thanks! Pepper

PS -- sorry it has taken me so long to get back to reading this thread.

Message Edited by Peppermill on 02-07-2008 05:55 PM
"Seize the moments of happiness, love and be loved! That is the only reality in the world, all else is folly. It is the one thing we are interested in here." -- Leo Tolstoy
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dhaupt
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Registered: ‎10-19-2006
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Re: PART FOUR: The Beginning of the End

[ Edited ]
Peppermill wrote--
dhaupt wrote: in my heart of hearts I always vote for the happy sappy ending.
Debbie -- loved you response! It left me smiling. Thanks! Pepper

PS -- sorry it has taken me so long to get back to reading this thread.

Message Edited by Peppermill on 02-07-2008 05:55 PM


Thanks Pepper I always try to leave em laughing
Deb

Message Edited by dhaupt on 02-08-2008 10:26 AM
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HannibalCat
Posts: 238
Registered: ‎10-25-2006
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Re: PART FOUR: The Beginning of the End



paula_02912 wrote:
Karen wrote: "Is it the events of her life that force Hannah to change from an idealist to a realist, or her inability to act on her convictions?"

Karen, I think that it is the events in Hannah's life that changed from an idealist to a realist....I believe it is these events which tied her ends hindering her ability to act on her convictions...we saw in France that she wanted to do something out of the ordinary if you will, when she went to see the "artist" in the alley...her being in that dark alley went against the conventions of her being a proper lady alone in that situation...but it is this experience combined with Deborah's presence when she gets to America that let her see that she really didn't gain any freedom through her marriage to Teddy...instead of Teddy holding her back, Deborah took over the reigns of her life, because of her ability to lead Teddy...




I don't think Hannah was ever a realist. How in the world could she think that she was looking at reality when all she did was escape into her own wishes. She was unable to fulfill any of the things she wanted to do, so she just moved on to something else to do. Now its Robbie, how did she think that was realistic? Again, she was just fulfilling her own wishes with no thought to the reality of the situation and the ramifications. I think Hannah is just a dreamer, not even an idealist. But, maybe I'm being too harsh. I'll know soon as the book is coming to an end.
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HannibalCat
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Re: PART FOUR: The Beginning of the End


KxBurns wrote:


Is this all a recipe for disaster (well, I guess it is since we know he dies at Riverton).



And we have to keep in mind that Teddy once offered Hannah similar escape from a life she hated and that didn't make her any happier.

Does anybody else think Hannah is seeking outside adventure to fill an internal void? If this is the case, can she ever be happy?

Karen

Message Edited by KxBurns on 01-16-2008 05:56 PM




Absolutely! Hannah has no idea what she really wants. She could have made more of her life with Teddy, but she let everything else control her.

She is no looking at Robbie as her savior. I feel bad for her, but I feel worse for Emmeline. She has had very little to encourage her and is lost in her feelings for Robbie. She is not even considered by Hannah, only Hannah is considered by Hannah.
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