Reply
3M
Contributor
3M
Posts: 24
Registered: ‎12-13-2007
0 Kudos

Re: PART FOUR: The Tape

Who bears responsibility for Robbie's death?

Hannah!
Wordsmith
kiakar
Posts: 3,435
Registered: ‎10-19-2006
0 Kudos

Re: PART FOUR: The Tape



3M wrote:
Who bears responsibility for Robbie's death?

Hannah!




And Robbie himself.
Scribe
vivico1
Posts: 3,456
Registered: ‎10-19-2006
0 Kudos

Re: PART FOUR: The Tape


kiakar wrote:


3M wrote:
Who bears responsibility for Robbie's death?

Hannah!




And Robbie himself.


100% right on Kiakar, its as much his fault as hers. they were in this secret mess together.
Vivian
~Those who do not read are no better off than those who can not.~ Chinese proverb
Frequent Contributor
bentley
Posts: 2,509
Registered: ‎01-31-2007
0 Kudos

Re: PART FOUR: The Tape



vivico1 wrote:

kiakar wrote:


3M wrote:
Who bears responsibility for Robbie's death?

Hannah!




And Robbie himself.


100% right on Kiakar, its as much his fault as hers. they were in this secret mess together.




Vivian and Kiakar,

I think I see it as being contributory negligence: 80% Hannah (she pulled the trigger and I think could have maimed him instead), 15% Emmeline (for bringing a gun at all) and Robbie (5% for coming unglued). However, the only person pulling the trigger was Hannah (100% responsibility).

Adultery is bad; but I don't think we shoot people for it (I am sure some of the scorned spouses must think otherwise though LOL).

Bentley
Scribe
vivico1
Posts: 3,456
Registered: ‎10-19-2006
0 Kudos

Re: PART FOUR: The Tape


bentley wrote:


vivico1 wrote:

kiakar wrote:


3M wrote:
Who bears responsibility for Robbie's death?

Hannah!




And Robbie himself.


100% right on Kiakar, its as much his fault as hers. they were in this secret mess together.




Vivian and Kiakar,

I think I see it as being contributory negligence: 80% Hannah (she pulled the trigger and I think could have maimed him instead), 15% Emmeline (for bringing a gun at all) and Robbie (5% for coming unglued). However, the only person pulling the trigger was Hannah (100% responsibility).

Adultery is bad; but I don't think we shoot people for it (I am sure some of the scorned spouses must think otherwise though LOL).

Bentley


But he was in on the adultery too. He was half of it. You will give the women that much guilt and him only 5%? He is in fact the interloper. 5%?? Man I want you on my jury if I ever have an adulterous affair with a married person (since i would be the single one), if things go all awry and someone dies but I am alive to go to trial. wow, thats hard to believe. So, had he not died, and they went on their merry way, he would still be only 5% guilty of breaking up a marriage? We may not kill people today for adultery, well there are those who catch their partner in the middle of an affair and kill them. And in some states, maybe most, it still against the law to commit adultery, setting aside the religious aspect even. To me, to say Em had the gun, and Hannah was the one who pulled the trigger, is just really saying HOW the tragedy happened, what came together that night to bring about the end of what the real guilty ones, Hannah and Robbie did that actually caused that night. Em could have been there with two guns, Grace could have lied about any and everything but these are actions leading up to that fateful night, not the cause of any of it.

One more thing,if even they didnt feel any guilt about what they were doing, why did they have to hide and lie and cheat to keep it going? Why werent they just straight up about it to Teddy and walk out the front door, not the back. And if you say, Teddy might have killed them so they couldnt do that, well? They know what they are doing and know that its all on them if something goes wrong, or this whole scene at the lake never ever would have happened.
Vivian
~Those who do not read are no better off than those who can not.~ Chinese proverb
Frequent Contributor
bentley
Posts: 2,509
Registered: ‎01-31-2007
0 Kudos

Re: PART FOUR: The Tape


vivico1 wrote:

bentley wrote:


vivico1 wrote:

kiakar wrote:


3M wrote:
Who bears responsibility for Robbie's death?

Hannah!




And Robbie himself.


100% right on Kiakar, its as much his fault as hers. they were in this secret mess together.




Vivian and Kiakar,

I think I see it as being contributory negligence: 80% Hannah (she pulled the trigger and I think could have maimed him instead), 15% Emmeline (for bringing a gun at all) and Robbie (5% for coming unglued). However, the only person pulling the trigger was Hannah (100% responsibility).

Adultery is bad; but I don't think we shoot people for it (I am sure some of the scorned spouses must think otherwise though LOL).

Bentley


But he was in on the adultery too. He was half of it. You will give the women that much guilt and him only 5%? He is in fact the interloper. 5%?? Man I want you on my jury if I ever have an adulterous affair with a married person (since i would be the single one), if things go all awry and someone dies but I am alive to go to trial. wow, thats hard to believe. So, had he not died, and they went on their merry way, he would still be only 5% guilty of breaking up a marriage? We may not kill people today for adultery, well there are those who catch their partner in the middle of an affair and kill them. And in some states, maybe most, it still against the law to commit adultery, setting aside the religious aspect even. To me, to say Em had the gun, and Hannah was the one who pulled the trigger, is just really saying HOW the tragedy happened, what came together that night to bring about the end of what the real guilty ones, Hannah and Robbie did that actually caused that night. Em could have been there with two guns, Grace could have lied about any and everything but these are actions leading up to that fateful night, not the cause of any of it.

One more thing,if even they didnt feel any guilt about what they were doing, why did they have to hide and lie and cheat to keep it going? Why werent they just straight up about it to Teddy and walk out the front door, not the back. And if you say, Teddy might have killed them so they couldnt do that, well? They know what they are doing and know that its all on them if something goes wrong, or this whole scene at the lake never ever would have happened.




Don't get me wrong; I do not condone adultery. I do not think there are any winners there and my texts indicated how I felt about Hannah and Robbie. I didn't much like any of them for that matter. I do not think Teddy would have murdered anyone; I think he could have ruined Hannah and the Hartfords; but then again he may have swept it under the rug because of his own misgivings. I just think that murder is different than adultery. Nobody would have died if Grace knew shorthand or Hannah wasn't playing her game and also if Robbie and Hannah were not committing adultery and yes if Em wasn't playing with guns. But at the end of the day, Hannah killed Robbie and must take 100% of the blame. Was there negligence on the part of others; yes there was. I stand by what I said; and I know that it is a very sensitive subject; but adultery is bad; but murder is worse.

Hannah and Robbie deserved what happened to both of them. They played with fire and would not act honorably and face the music (ask Teddy for a divorce); and both of them got burned. Would we have hoped for a better outcome; of course. I can understand how you feel but I just consider adultery less of a crime than murder.

Bentley
Scribe
vivico1
Posts: 3,456
Registered: ‎10-19-2006
0 Kudos

Re: PART FOUR: The Tape


bentley wrote:

vivico1 wrote:

bentley wrote:


vivico1 wrote:

kiakar wrote:


3M wrote:
Who bears responsibility for Robbie's death?

Hannah!




And Robbie himself.


100% right on Kiakar, its as much his fault as hers. they were in this secret mess together.




Vivian and Kiakar,

I think I see it as being contributory negligence: 80% Hannah (she pulled the trigger and I think could have maimed him instead), 15% Emmeline (for bringing a gun at all) and Robbie (5% for coming unglued). However, the only person pulling the trigger was Hannah (100% responsibility).

Adultery is bad; but I don't think we shoot people for it (I am sure some of the scorned spouses must think otherwise though LOL).

Bentley


But he was in on the adultery too. He was half of it. You will give the women that much guilt and him only 5%? He is in fact the interloper. 5%?? Man I want you on my jury if I ever have an adulterous affair with a married person (since i would be the single one), if things go all awry and someone dies but I am alive to go to trial. wow, thats hard to believe. So, had he not died, and they went on their merry way, he would still be only 5% guilty of breaking up a marriage? We may not kill people today for adultery, well there are those who catch their partner in the middle of an affair and kill them. And in some states, maybe most, it still against the law to commit adultery, setting aside the religious aspect even. To me, to say Em had the gun, and Hannah was the one who pulled the trigger, is just really saying HOW the tragedy happened, what came together that night to bring about the end of what the real guilty ones, Hannah and Robbie did that actually caused that night. Em could have been there with two guns, Grace could have lied about any and everything but these are actions leading up to that fateful night, not the cause of any of it.

One more thing,if even they didnt feel any guilt about what they were doing, why did they have to hide and lie and cheat to keep it going? Why werent they just straight up about it to Teddy and walk out the front door, not the back. And if you say, Teddy might have killed them so they couldnt do that, well? They know what they are doing and know that its all on them if something goes wrong, or this whole scene at the lake never ever would have happened.




Don't get me wrong; I do not condone adultery. I do not think there are any winners there and my texts indicated how I felt about Hannah and Robbie. I didn't much like any of them for that matter. I do not think Teddy would have murdered anyone; I think he could have ruined Hannah and the Hartfords; but then again he may have swept it under the rug because of his own misgivings. I just think that murder is different than adultery. Nobody would have died if Grace knew shorthand or Hannah wasn't playing her game and also if Robbie and Hannah were not committing adultery and yes if Em wasn't playing with guns. But at the end of the day, Hannah killed Robbie and must take 100% of the blame. Was there negligence on the part of others; yes there was. I stand by what I said; and I know that it is a very sensitive subject; but adultery is bad; but murder is worse.

Hannah and Robbie deserved what happened to both of them. They played with fire and would not act honorably and face the music (ask Teddy for a divorce); and both of them got burned. Would we have hoped for a better outcome; of course. I can understand how you feel but I just consider adultery less of a crime than murder.

Bentley


Bentley,
While I will agree with you that murder is far worse than adultery, remember, she didn't murder him. She killed him and in self defense. She hated herself for it after too, she may have even felt she murdered her lover because she pulled the trigger, but what options did she had with him charging in the state he was. So I am not comparing the guilt of Adultery to that of Murder. I am just saying nothing brought about this unfortunate "killing", except for the adultery that lead them to this bad night. To say she murdered him, or even to just say, she pulled the trigger, and Em brought the gun and grace brought Em and so on and so on, those are elements, or even what happened at "the crime scene", those things don't yield guilt, for that you have to go back and see what happened with these people that brought about the perfect storm. I will agree with you who did what, thats the crime scene, but I can't agree with you on who bares the brunt of the guilt for it happening. :smileywink:
Vivian
~Those who do not read are no better off than those who can not.~ Chinese proverb
Inspired Correspondent
nfam
Posts: 231
Registered: ‎01-08-2007
0 Kudos

Re: PART FOUR: The Tape

So we finally see the real tragedy. I thought it was well set up. The original game had three players as did the final game and the author used the triangle again to show that there was only one possible conclusion. Members of the original triangle couldn't shoot each other. They could get to the end of the elastic, but then the elastic had to snap back.

I wasn't surprised at Emmeline. It felt throughout, particularly when Teddy married Hannah that there was rather a lot of sibling rivalry and jealousy. I also thought that Emmeline's fast life was a response to that jealousy. She was going to try to be as different from Hannah as possible.

The real tragedy for me was the fact that Hannah couldn't stop playing games. The final note she left for Grace in shorthand was the factor that threw the elopement into tragedy, that and using Emmeline for an unwitting go between. Interesting how their secrets, games playing and failure to deal with reality killed the three final players.

Nancy
Inspired Correspondent
nfam
Posts: 231
Registered: ‎01-08-2007
0 Kudos

Re: PART FOUR: The Tape

So we finally see the real tragedy. I thought it was well set up.The original game had three players as did the final game and the author used the triangle again to show that there was only one possible conclusion. Members of the original triangle couldn't shoot each other. They could get to the end of the elastic, but then the elastic had to snap back.

I wasn't surprised at Emmeline. It felt throughout, particularly when Teddy married Hannah that there was rather a lot of sibling rivalry and jealousy. I also thought that Emmeline's fast life was a response to that jealousy. She was going to try to be as different from Hannah as possible.

The real tragedy for me was the fact that Hannah couldn't stop playing games. The final note she left for Grace in shorthand was the factor that threw the elopement into tragedy, that and using Emmeline for an unwitting go between. Interesting how their secrets, games playing and failure to deal with reality killed the three final players.

Nancy
Frequent Contributor
bentley
Posts: 2,509
Registered: ‎01-31-2007
0 Kudos

Re: PART FOUR: The Tape

Bentley,
While I will agree with you that murder is far worse than adultery, remember, she didn't murder him. She killed him and in self defense. She hated herself for it after too, she may have even felt she murdered her lover because she pulled the trigger, but what options did she had with him charging in the state he was. So I am not comparing the guilt of Adultery to that of Murder. I am just saying nothing brought about this unfortunate "killing", except for the adultery that lead them to this bad night. To say she murdered him, or even to just say, she pulled the trigger, and Em brought the gun and grace brought Em and so on and so on, those are elements, or even what happened at "the crime scene", those things don't yield guilt, for that you have to go back and see what happened with these people that brought about the perfect storm. I will agree with you who did what, thats the crime scene, but I can't agree with you on who bares the brunt of the guilt for it happening. :smileywink:




Vivian,

I do not think that Hannah needed to "kill"/"murder" Robbie even in self-defense. I think she could have aimed for his legs and stopped him that way. What she did if we believe Grace's memory after all of those years is suspect. Vivian, if you had killed your lover and hated yourself for it, could you have gone on living with the husband you supposedly hated and been intimate with that person even if you were going through the motions. And she didn't say that much about Robbie afterwards either. If the police had been told the truth, I wonder what would have happened. I guess that Emmeline and Grace might have said things to indicate that Robbie had come unglued and it was self defense; but maybe it would have been up to a jury to decide.

As far as the adultery, over time there have been many spouses who have discovered that their wifes or their husbands have been cheating on them and they have not picked up guns lying around or readily available and shot their spouses even if they were involved in heated arguments. Now there have been some who had and they were charged for the homicide. Was Hannah in danger? No. Was Grace in danger? No. The person who was supposedly in danger was Emmeline. Hannah, therefore, could have redirected the fire to Robbie's legs; but she didn't. She could have tried to bring him back to reality by telling him that she could not go with him if he hurt her sister. From what I remember of that scene, Robbie was not armed.

There are many situations where folks have had intruders come into their home and have killed them supposedly in self defense and they themselves have found themselves charged. It is a very slippery slope. Most of the time these folks are exonerated but sometimes they are not. They have said that it was self defense as well.

Hannah was not a character who was all bad; but she did set this play in motion and as a reader I felt bad about the entire unfortunate scene as you did. Let me give you an extreme example, if a dying man asks to be killed to stop his pain, is that a mercy killing that you would allow. The courts have decided that this is not condoned and is a killing none the less. And though the person begged for this to happen to many people and there are many people who can vouch for this, the person who actually carries it out is guilty of that killing and has to serve some time. We cannot let Hannah off the hook so easily. She got off the hook because of subterfuge, more lies and a cover-up. She deteriorated because of her guilt over the events themselves; not so much from remorse but because of the trauma of being involved in such an act and now being condemned to her previous life without any outlets.

Robbie was no saint either and he knew he should have told Emmeline and Hannah talked him out of it. He was a user too and used Emmeline in order to see Hannah. His negligence did contribute to the event and his death; but he is not guilty of being responsible for killing himself.

I agree to disagree on this one Vivian; but it was fun talking about it. Everybody reads the book differently and will come up with their own opinions.

Bentley
Frequent Contributor
bentley
Posts: 2,509
Registered: ‎01-31-2007
0 Kudos

Re: PART FOUR: The Tape



nfam wrote:
So we finally see the real tragedy. I thought it was well set up. The original game had three players as did the final game and the author used the triangle again to show that there was only one possible conclusion. Members of the original triangle couldn't shoot each other. They could get to the end of the elastic, but then the elastic had to snap back.

I wasn't surprised at Emmeline. It felt throughout, particularly when Teddy married Hannah that there was rather a lot of sibling rivalry and jealousy. I also thought that Emmeline's fast life was a response to that jealousy. She was going to try to be as different from Hannah as possible.

The real tragedy for me was the fact that Hannah couldn't stop playing games. The final note she left for Grace in shorthand was the factor that threw the elopement into tragedy, that and using Emmeline for an unwitting go between. Interesting how their secrets, games playing and failure to deal with reality killed the three final players.

Nancy




Very well put Nancy.
Scribe
vivico1
Posts: 3,456
Registered: ‎10-19-2006
0 Kudos

Re: PART FOUR: The Tape


bentley wrote:


I agree to disagree on this one Vivian; but it was fun talking about it. Everybody reads the book differently and will come up with their own opinions.

Bentley


yeah lets agree to disagree because I think we are arguing two different points, cause and effect. Guilt lies differently between the two. Just one thing tho, I kind of find humorous, I think you give Hannah too much credit on her shooting abilities just because they knew how. She must be an Annie Oakley if she can shoot a moving man in the leg. I think she just shot at him and it hit where it hit. :smileywink: Ok lets go find another part of the book to chew over together lol.
Vivian
~Those who do not read are no better off than those who can not.~ Chinese proverb
Frequent Contributor
bentley
Posts: 2,509
Registered: ‎01-31-2007
0 Kudos

Re: PART FOUR: The Tape



vivico1 wrote:

bentley wrote:


I agree to disagree on this one Vivian; but it was fun talking about it. Everybody reads the book differently and will come up with their own opinions.

Bentley


yeah lets agree to disagree because I think we are arguing two different points, cause and effect. Guilt lies differently between the two. Just one thing tho, I kind of find humorous, I think you give Hannah too much credit on her shooting abilities just because they knew how. She must be an Annie Oakley if she can shoot a moving man in the leg. I think she just shot at him and it hit where it hit. :smileywink: Ok lets go find another part of the book to chew over together lol.




Annie Oakley she is (lol)..in a previous note I talked about the percentages of negligence (mho) and the effect was the killing itself. All she had to do was to aim lower. Anyways it is fiction and we can be thankful for that. All best.

Bentley
Wordsmith
kiakar
Posts: 3,435
Registered: ‎10-19-2006
0 Kudos

Re: PART FOUR: The Tape



bentley wrote:


vivico1 wrote:

kiakar wrote:


3M wrote:
Who bears responsibility for Robbie's death?

Hannah!




And Robbie himself.


100% right on Kiakar, its as much his fault as hers. they were in this secret mess together.




Vivian and Kiakar,

I think I see it as being contributory negligence: 80% Hannah (she pulled the trigger and I think could have maimed him instead), 15% Emmeline (for bringing a gun at all) and Robbie (5% for coming unglued). However, the only person pulling the trigger was Hannah (100% responsibility).

Adultery is bad; but I don't think we shoot people for it (I am sure some of the scorned spouses must think otherwise though LOL).

Bentley




Yes, and Bently, it is a leading cause of death in spousal relations. This type of thing is a very emotional situation just waiting to explode. And sometimes you know the people, and you say, hey he or she couldnt have done this,they are too sensible or too quiet or whatever, but that is just it, its a very emotional bomb that ticks and will go off even with the slightest shimmer. So adultry to me is the definite cause. Anytime you committ adultry and keep its secret from your live in spouse, you are building pressure as in the atom bomb, it will eventually explode or you will have to take the dumb thing apart piece by piece meaning you have to disclose the act and build away from it. If there hadnt been adultry, there wouldnt have been a murder, of course maybe not a book either. ha.
Wordsmith
kiakar
Posts: 3,435
Registered: ‎10-19-2006
0 Kudos

Re: PART FOUR: The Tape

I had not seen yours and Bentley's post on this before I wrote mine.

If there hadnt of been NO adultry in this matter, no one would be dead, Right? The murder might not have happened as the direct cause of the action of Hannah and Robbie's affair, but definitely the affair came to this, the murder. I hope you understand what I am trying to say. I guess you can say, I am against adultry. Its against nature, against happiness and so on. You marry someone to give that person You, your soul and that is how I feel it should be. You are not alone anymore, you are both as one .And if one partner takes this to heart and the other does not, then there is where the murder in the eyes of the victim comes from. When you learn that your true love th at you value as number one in everything, part of you, the divine one you tell it all too, just like you would your God has portrayed you. He or she is not what you thought and has completely disullusioned you forever. To me, that is what marriage does, at least to one partner, and it will be very likely an explosion of some kind if the other partner falls short of that committment.
Scribe
vivico1
Posts: 3,456
Registered: ‎10-19-2006
0 Kudos

Re: PART FOUR: The Tape


kiakar wrote:
I had not seen yours and Bentley's post on this before I wrote mine.

If there hadnt of been NO adultry in this matter, no one would be dead, Right? The murder might not have happened as the direct cause of the action of Hannah and Robbie's affair, but definitely the affair came to this, the murder. I hope you understand what I am trying to say. I guess you can say, I am against adultry. Its against nature, against happiness and so on. You marry someone to give that person You, your soul and that is how I feel it should be. You are not alone anymore, you are both as one .And if one partner takes this to heart and the other does not, then there is where the murder in the eyes of the victim comes from. When you learn that your true love th at you value as number one in everything, part of you, the divine one you tell it all too, just like you would your God has portrayed you. He or she is not what you thought and has completely disullusioned you forever. To me, that is what marriage does, at least to one partner, and it will be very likely an explosion of some kind if the other partner falls short of that committment.


I agree with you Kiakar and I think you would agree that this wasn't a murder anyway. It was a killing, an unfortunate act of self defense and defending another. Hannah had no intentions on murdering her lover OR shooting him at all. She had no choice at this point, this was the effect and the adultery was the cause.

Sure there were a lot of other things Hannah could have done, like not get into the affair to begin with, told Teddy the truth and either stay with him or get a divorce, they did happen then altho some seem to think that was just unthinkable then! But all those were options in the past, at this precise time she only had two options, let Robbie kill Em or her and then maybe even himself, or kill Robbie before he got to them. Thats it, no other choices. This was the effect, the final outcome of their lies.
Vivian
~Those who do not read are no better off than those who can not.~ Chinese proverb
Wordsmith
kiakar
Posts: 3,435
Registered: ‎10-19-2006
0 Kudos

Re: PART FOUR: The Tape



vivico1 wrote:

kiakar wrote:
I had not seen yours and Bentley's post on this before I wrote mine.

If there hadnt of been NO adultry in this matter, no one would be dead, Right? The murder might not have happened as the direct cause of the action of Hannah and Robbie's affair, but definitely the affair came to this, the murder. I hope you understand what I am trying to say. I guess you can say, I am against adultry. Its against nature, against happiness and so on. You marry someone to give that person You, your soul and that is how I feel it should be. You are not alone anymore, you are both as one .And if one partner takes this to heart and the other does not, then there is where the murder in the eyes of the victim comes from. When you learn that your true love th at you value as number one in everything, part of you, the divine one you tell it all too, just like you would your God has portrayed you. He or she is not what you thought and has completely disullusioned you forever. To me, that is what marriage does, at least to one partner, and it will be very likely an explosion of some kind if the other partner falls short of that committment.


I agree with you Kiakar and I think you would agree that this wasn't a murder anyway. It was a killing, an unfortunate act of self defense and defending another. Hannah had no intentions on murdering her lover OR shooting him at all. She had no choice at this point, this was the effect and the adultery was the cause.

Sure there were a lot of other things Hannah could have done, like not get into the affair to begin with, told Teddy the truth and either stay with him or get a divorce, they did happen then altho some seem to think that was just unthinkable then! But all those were options in the past, at this precise time she only had two options, let Robbie kill Em or her and then maybe even himself, or kill Robbie before he got to them. Thats it, no other choices. This was the effect, the final outcome of their lies.




You are right, Vivian, this is the way the author wanted it written and this is how it is. Lies will cause alot more than what these caused and these were tragic.
Distinguished Wordsmith
Everyman
Posts: 9,216
Registered: ‎10-19-2006
0 Kudos

Re: PART FOUR: The Tape


nfam wrote:
The original game had three players as did the final game ....

And in both trios, the man died by violence.
_______________
I think, therefore I drive people nuts.
Frequent Contributor
bentley
Posts: 2,509
Registered: ‎01-31-2007
0 Kudos

Re: PART FOUR: The Tape


kiakar wrote:


bentley wrote:


vivico1 wrote:

kiakar wrote:


3M wrote:
Who bears responsibility for Robbie's death?

Hannah!




And Robbie himself.


100% right on Kiakar, its as much his fault as hers. they were in this secret mess together.




Vivian and Kiakar,

I think I see it as being contributory negligence: 80% Hannah (she pulled the trigger and I think could have maimed him instead), 15% Emmeline (for bringing a gun at all) and Robbie (5% for coming unglued). However, the only person pulling the trigger was Hannah (100% responsibility).

Adultery is bad; but I don't think we shoot people for it (I am sure some of the scorned spouses must think otherwise though LOL).

Bentley




Yes, and Bently, it is a leading cause of death in spousal relations. This type of thing is a very emotional situation just waiting to explode. And sometimes you know the people, and you say, hey he or she couldnt have done this,they are too sensible or too quiet or whatever, but that is just it, its a very emotional bomb that ticks and will go off even with the slightest shimmer. So adultry to me is the definite cause. Anytime you committ adultry and keep its secret from your live in spouse, you are building pressure as in the atom bomb, it will eventually explode or you will have to take the dumb thing apart piece by piece meaning you have to disclose the act and build away from it. If there hadnt been adultry, there wouldnt have been a murder, of course maybe not a book either. ha.




Yes, Kiakar. Adultery does stir up the emotions; and if these folks you are referring to murdered their spouse over it; they are still killers...and you cannot say that they did it because of emotional self defense or any other reason other than they were scorned.

What would happen to the person who was so upset that their spouse committed adultery that they went temporarily insane, and killed their guilty wife or husband. They would go to jail unequivocably.

Hannah is 100% responsible for pulling the trigger. I appreciate how you feel, I honestly do but contributory negligence is a little different than the end result. And if Grace did not bring Emmeline down to the lake and summon her to stop Hannah from hurting herself; none of it would have happened either.

Grace lied about reading shorthand and then jumped the gun about the note written to Emmeline. I think emotions are clouding the way of seeing the facts clearly; and the fact that Hannah and Robbie were committing adultery seems to be causing the fog. Just because they were cheaters; neither should have died and neither should have been killed. Hannah knew what she was doing and saved her neck temporarily; saying she saved her sister. Her sister and her closed rank yet Emmeline didn't even want to see her after that.

Sorry to politely disagree; but Hannah was a manipulator and both sisters contributed to the mess.

Bentley
Moderator
KxBurns
Posts: 1,006
Registered: ‎09-06-2007
0 Kudos

Re: Responsibility

[ Edited ]

AbbyLynn wrote:
I'm not so quick to point the finger at any one person. There are a number of things that had to happen exactly the way they did. If Grace had been honest at any point (before that night) about not knowing shorthand, if Hannah and Robbie had gotten straight on the motorcycle instead of taking the time to conceive a baby, if Hannah had been faithful to her husband from the beginning, if Robbie had done a better job of convincing Emmeline he wasn't interested in her, if Emmeline hadn't thrown a tantrum, if Emmeline's friend hadn't left a gun in his pocket...all these things had to happen. But the one that I go back to is Robbie's shell shock. So isn't it the war's fault? Robbie never would have suggested that Hannah shoot Emmeline if he had been in his right mind at that moment. The reason Hannah had to make the decision that she did was because she had seen Robbie like that. She knew she didn't have the ability to snap him out of it in time. She knew that Robbie would kill her little sister. And I have to say that I would have done the exact same thing to protect my sister.



I think you've summed up this issue really well. Many characters contributed to the situation, but none of them are truly to blame. Ultimately it came down to Hannah and her instinct was to protect her family. In this, I actually don't believe she bears any guilt for killing Robbie. It was a desperate situation. Her guilt in the matter is more long-term, in that she particpated more knowingly, through deception and manipulation, than any of the others you mention in the events that led to the confrontation at the lake.

Message Edited by KxBurns on 01-20-2008 11:02 PM
Users Online
Currently online:4 members 299 guests
Please welcome our newest community members: