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Re: PART ONE: The Nursery
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01-04-2008 08:20 PM
KxBurns wrote:
At last, the sisters Hannah and Emmeline are introduced, along with their brother David. In entering the story, they rob Grace of what she considers "her room, her books..." Frequent rejoinders to not forget her place (from her mother, Nancy, Mr. Hamilton) don't prevent Grace from feeling proprietary toward this place and these people from the start -- perhaps because of her young age?
I thought that Grace felt proprietary toward the library & the books because she doesn't really have a place of her own at Riverton (she even shares a room & if forced to hide her own books). It's interesting that when Grace is "robbed" of those things, she clings to the people who took them from her.
Re: PART ONE: The Nursery
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01-04-2008 08:23 PM
bookhunter wrote:
Several posts have mentioned possible connections between Raverly the foxhound used in hunting, the painting of the deer killed by a hunter, and the name Robert Hunter.
Even though he is the supposed tragic figure, it is making me laugh. My last name is Hunter, and my husband's family tree dates back to Hunters of Scotland! There is a Hunterston castle that we have visited. (Only open to members of Clan Hunter) When I read of the summer house in the book and the old, musty atmosphere of the manor, I am reminded of the contrast between the Hunterston castle and the "New House" that dwarfs the ancient castle. Of course, everything is relative--the "new" house is only a couple of hundred years old!
The Clan home page link is below, and while I doubt it relates to the story, you might find it interesting. The crest is pictured with the motto "Cursum Perficio" which means "Finish the course" or "I follow the course." And now that I look at it again, might that be a Scottish thistle on the buckle?
http://www.clanhunter.org.uk/index.html
So "Cursum Perficio"....
Ann, LADY bookhunter
AHA! The butler didnt do it! It was Ann's husband of the Scottish Hunter clan that did it!
~Those who do not read are no better off than those who can not.~ Chinese proverb
Re: PART ONE: The Nursery
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01-04-2008 08:36 PM
1. She looks very familiar to Hannah, too familiar
2. She has the same features of them, the same colouring was it>
3. Frederick freaked out when he saw her on the balcony, like he had seen a ghost (or her mother).
4. We know her mother got pregnant while working there and had to leave and there is no father around and she wont talk about him.
5. And one that we havent mentioned yet, when she is interviewed by Lady Violet, "She paused and the looked at me closely, in a way that made me feel trapped, like a mouse inside a jar. Was Lady Violet just checking her out to see if she was clean as Grace supposes, or to look at her that closely, could she be looking for a family resemblance she doesnt want to see?
Now think of this. If she is lets say Frederick's daughter, and she has an instant crush on David....what happens if they grow up together falling in love, thats her half brother! What could drive a young passionate poet to suicide, if thats what it was? hmmmm
~Those who do not read are no better off than those who can not.~ Chinese proverb
Re: PART ONE: The Nursery
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01-04-2008 08:52 PM
What is perhaps also interesting is that she owned three books. Books were very expensive back then, which is why circulating libraries were so common and popular. For a servant to actually own books, and 14 year old servant at that, was pretty surprising.
goingeast wrote:
yes, but who wound up financing Grace's schooling and why.....mysterious.......
I think, therefore I drive people nuts.
Re: PART ONE: The Nursery
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01-04-2008 08:54 PM
She was. See page 5. She was a film actress.
I think, therefore I drive people nuts.
Re: PART ONE: The Nursery
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01-04-2008 08:54 PM
Librarian
+++++++++++++++
The word curse as well as the rest of the quote, is ominous...gives me the chills!
http://kathys-aliceinwonderland.blogspot.com/
Re: PART ONE: The Nursery
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01-04-2008 08:56 PM
vivico1 wrote:... We know her [Grace's] mother got pregnant while working there [at Riverton] and had to leave...
Do we in fact know that? We know she did work there, but do we know that she got pregnant while she was there and not after she left?
I think, therefore I drive people nuts.
Re: PART ONE: The Nursery
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01-04-2008 08:59 PM
Margaret42
Re: PART ONE: The Nursery
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01-04-2008 09:00 PM
vivico1 wrote:
...Now think of this. If [Grace] is lets say Frederick's daughter, and she has an instant crush on David....what happens if they grow up together falling in love, thats her half brother! What could drive a young passionate poet to suicide, if thats what it was? hmmmm>
I thought it was Robbie, not David, who was the young poet who committed suicide (or, my speculation maybe was murdered or died in a tragic accident that somebody should have prevented).
I think, therefore I drive people nuts.
Re: PART ONE: The Nursery
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01-04-2008 09:02 PM
Margaret42 wrote:
This is my first time I have participated in this type of thing and I have spent more time trying to piece this process together and read the threads, so sorting out my thoughts about the book is becoming an extra chore! Page 36 talks about being "an old woman now, yet as I think of David I find the echoes of those old feelings creeping back." Are Grace's feelings for the David the reason for her long silence? I will try to keep up, but I feel like I'm at the bottom of the form.
Margaret42
I think, therefore I drive people nuts.
Re: PART ONE: The Nursery
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01-04-2008 09:02 PM
"The folk of Riverton have all been dead so long. While age has withered me, they remain eternally youthful, eternally beautiful.
There now. I am becoming maudlin and romantic. For they are neither young nor beautiful. They are dead. Buried. Nothing. Mere figments that flit within the memories of those they once knew.
But of course, those who live in memories are never really dead."
This is what I like about the story framed by the older narrator reflecting. It really cements the tragedy of what is to come in youthful people. We presumably won't get to see what happens to these folks that die young, while we do see a fulfilling and completed life in Grace. I guess this is an author's technique to make the tragedy more TRAGIC, but it works.
Ann, bookhunter
Re: PART ONE: The Nursery
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01-04-2008 09:04 PM
CathyB wrote:
So much going on here. We see that Grace's mother is not overly affectionate. Why? She later refers to having Grace as a mistake when asked about having a sister:
Mother had laughed, but not in a happy way, and said she wasn't given
to make the same mistake twice.
We saw in the last chapters that Grace's skills of observation were very good. At the
time, I just contributed them to 'life as a servant'; however, here we see that she is
a fan of Holmes and Watson. This may have led to the same 'powers of observation'.
We also see that she has been told from both her mother and the other servants to
keep her place. How or why could this have contributed to how things ended?
The adults in her life try to 'lower her expectations in life'. Her mother sent her to be a servant as opposed to entertainig the idea of becoming a teacher.
The number one rule from Mr. Hamilton: keep their secrets. Grace's mother doesn't
talk about her time at Riverton. She obviously leraned the lesson well.
Could Grace's longing for siblings be what drove her to lie to Miss Prince? Or, could
it just be that they are the only children in a house of adults?
-CathyB
Message Edited by CathyB on 01-04-2008 08:13 AM
Message Edited by CathyB on 01-04-2008 08:13 AM
I think Grace's mother is a little "cold" because just living is so difficult for her. She could barely make ends meet to feed herself let alone a child. She was originally going to give Grace up to the orphanage, then decides to keep her. She must have strong feelings for her child, just not the energy to be forthright in showing affection.
MG
Re: PART ONE: The Nursery
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01-04-2008 09:16 PM
Margaret42 wrote:
This is my first time I have participated in this type of thing and I have spent more time trying to piece this process together and read the threads, so sorting out my thoughts about the book is becoming an extra chore! Page 36 talks about being "an old woman now, yet as I think of David I find the echoes of those old feelings creeping back." Are Grace's feelings for the David the reason for her long silence? I will try to keep up, but I feel like I'm at the bottom of the form.
Margaret42
I took it to mean more a memory of how she felt, than that she still holds those feelings. Reading it made me think back to being 14 and remember how it felt to really have a crush on someone from the first time you saw them.
Bonnie
Re: PART ONE: The Nursery
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01-04-2008 10:16 PM
The second thing I noticed was at the same section of the chapter on page 37. Miss Prince begins to quote Tennyson and Grace says "I was unfamiliar with Tennyson at the time..." That line really popped out at me because we know that a up and coming poet is suppossed to have killed himself at Riverton. Did Grace learn about Tennyson from this poet? Did she learned it because she was fascinated/in love with him?
The other thing that I thought would be important was that the children are complaining that they are sick of reciting The Lady of Shalott and hearing Miss Prince "snivel into her handkerchief." They then begin to discuss how Miss Prince was engaged to a man and then he turned around and married her sister. Seems to be a bit of foreshadowing. Ursula told us in chapter two that the poet who committed suicide was involved with both Nancy and Emmeline. "His only witnesses are two beautiful sisters who never speak to each other again. One his fiancee, the other rumoured to be his lover."
Re: PART ONE: The Nursery
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01-04-2008 10:46 PM
Since I just got my book yesterday and had to read through 24 pages for chapters one and two, I'm a little behind in the discussion here. Suffice it to say, that the points I would bring up have already been brought up and discussed.
* I think that Grace is related to the family, which may be why her mother appears cold and yet, in my opinion, anxious for her to go to work for the family.
* The deer picture, I don't think it will have signifigance (just bad taste) in the plot, is probably just a disgard the family didn't want.
* I love that Grace dusted the Nanny and that she smuggled in her books.
* I didn't find her lying for the children unusual, I think she is not used to being "below" others and doesn't know her "place" entirely. Everyone wants friends, and I think Grace is starved for friendship.
Re: PART ONE: The Nursery
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01-04-2008 11:48 PM
Carrie_F wrote:
On page 5, Ruth having just received the first letter from Ursula, Grace narrates that it wasn’t the first time that she had been reminded of what had happened at Riverton, “to Robbie and the Hartford sisters”. In this chapter, in the middle of page 24, Grace narrates that she never spoke of what went on between Robbie Hunter and the Hartford’s, then again on the end of page 31 and beginning of 32, comes the introduction as to how the family would get to know Robert Hunter; a friend of David’s from school. I am going to assume at this point that Robbie / Robert Hunter is the dead poet.
Carrie
I had noted this too. I thought this was a nice subtle way to introduce the first piece of the mystery Grace is keeping secret.
Re: PART ONE: The Nursery
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01-05-2008 12:14 AM
Re: PART ONE: The Nursery
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01-05-2008 12:53 AM
nickco3 wrote:
I've seen in early posts, that some people have concluded that Grace was in her 40's when she had Ruth. How did you come to that conclusion? I missed it. Thanks
Well Grace was 14 when she sent to work a Riverton, and this was before the Great War broke out in 1914. Grace mentions on page 8 that Ruth is a child of the second war which ended in 1945.
England declared war on Germany in 1939. If Ruth was born during the war then Grace would be 39-45. My personal opinion is that Ruth was old enough to have experienced part of the war. Grace says "child of the second war," I took that to mean part of her childhood was during the war. When Grace mentions the "air of woe" that surrounds children born in stressful times, it is easy imagine Ruth actually having memories of the Blitz and London burning and of Britain being alone against Hitler until 1941. So I think Ruth may have actually been born around 1936. I think the rise of Germany in the 30's would still qualify as stressful times in England.
Re: PART ONE: The Nursery
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01-05-2008 12:53 AM
Everyman wrote:
I thought that the "shiny new building" was the summerhouse as it appeared in 1924, as it had been designed by Teddy (who I don't think we've met yet unless Edward is Teddy, which is I suppose quite possible).
goingeast wrote:
There appears to be an area of confusion about the description of Riverton house. In the first chapter Grace descibes the house as a "shiny new building." However, on p. 26, she describes the house - "creaking bones of the old house." Is this a discrepency or am I mistaken?
I missed an Edward. What page is he mentioned on?
Re: PART ONE: The Nursery
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01-05-2008 01:02 AM
CathyB wrote:
kiakar wrote:
CathyB wrote:
Yes, the hiding of the books shows a little rebelliousness in Grace.
Where did this come from?
-CathyB
She was fourteen, aren't all teenagers rebellious.??
Depends on the child and his/her relationship with others.
My 16 year old was not rebellious at the age and not really at this age.
-CathyB
Message Edited by CathyB on 01-04-2008 07:19 PM
Maybe not so much rebellious, but sneaky also? I know I wasn't "rebellious", and not really "sneaky". But I'm sure most kids do things there parents do know about, and you could relate to it being "rebellious" "sneaky", no matter how envolved (as a parent) you are. It's just a fact of life. Think back to when you were a child.