PART TWO: Bankers - Fred's work ethic

[Carmenere_lady]

---

bookhunter wrote:

---

Carmenere_lady wrote:
I admire Frederick in that he knows what kind of car he wants to produce and he knows his market segment. His vehicles are hand made and he buys the best parts. It got me wondering if Ms. Morton modeled Fred after one of the High End British car makers, like Rolls Royce or Bentley. Think I'll do a little google

---

So what did your googling reveal? I was thinking about this, too, especially in contrast to how Simion approaches business. Although, I guess the same things could be said about him--he knows what he wants to produce and his market segment. The two men represent different approaches to manufacturing and business. I imagine this was a conversation being repeated in many parts of the world at this time (and still is!)

Ann, bookhunter

---

Hey Ann, I did google and got a brief history of the Rolls Royce Company. Mr. Royce wanted to make the best motor car in the world and Mr. Rolls wanted to sell the best motor car in the world, so together in 1904 the Rolls-Royce Motor Cars was born. During WWI, when not many cars were manufactured, Royce turned his attention to aero engines. Any resemblence ends there. It's also ironic that with all the talk of the German workforce in this chapter the Bentley division was later purchased by Volkswagen and Rolls-Royce by BMW. Mmmm, Luxton-Ashbury.

[JoyZ]

---

rkreilly wrote:
I think Fredrick's unhappiness can be attributed to having to follow what is expected of you, instead of what he wants to do. We have covered many times the sense of tradition the Hartfords have- and so, Frederick as the only son and heir now, is expected to follow what the older generations plans were for the family. It is not what he wants, it is not where he belongs, and it leads to much unhappiness. I also think his business is suffering because he is not free to focus on the factory. His business ventures were never supported and actually discouraged by the family. He is trying to continue on his own ventures, and fulfill his parents wishes at the same time of being Lord of Riverton and carrying on the family name. We've even heard how he didn't get along with his first wife- another case of a son getting married because it was time and what his family wanted? But yet, he pushes his views onto Hannah, when she is desperate to move into more modern times.

Message Edited by rkreilly on 01-09-2008 08:44 PM

---

Well said. Maybe Hannah will be able to have the courage to step out of what's expected and find her own way.

[nfam]

Certainly this chapter tells us that the war has changed everything. Not only are three main male members of the family gone, but the servants and even the house has changed. The house itself is being stripped of it's furnishings, on supposes because Frederick has lost so much money that he has to find a way to repay his lenders.

Yes, the Americans are arriving on the scene. Emmeline is entranced, especially about the money, but one wonders about Hannah. She was obviously from the description terribly upset by David's death. She wants freedom. Fanny's marriage is laughed at, but it offers freedom of a sort. I wonder if that will play a part in the happenings. Certainly we've heard about Teddy and since very early on, I believe Ursula said that Hannah married, but Emmeline never did that Teddy is destined for Hannah. I doubt that if that occurs it will be a happy marriage.

Yes, this chapter has the scent of decay. The characters are having to deal with reduced expectations. Alfred has returned, but not as himself. It seems a weary time for the house and it's occupants.

Nancy

[Cyndell]

---

sher898 wrote:
I am a new to BN Book clubs and new to this type of book ( I am a avid Stephen king and mystical novels) BUT I am very glad I took the opportunity to get this book! This chapter really caught my interest And I can't wait till the end of the day when I can read!! Anyone else that had trouble getting through the first part -- the second comes to life for me!

Thanks for letting me in!

---

Hi. I'm also new the the BN Book Club. I was so thrilled when I was accepted. I'm not sure I really have a "type" of book anymore. Lately I've been venturing out and away from my favorite authors...and have discovered some great reads. I have been amazed at the response and input from these message boards, they're fantastic.

I did have a problem with getting through the first part of the book. I wasn't sure at that time if it was me...or? I flew through the rest of the book. I loved it.

Cindy

[isugirl]

I really like Hannah. She is definitely a girl of adventure. I admire that she is not afraid to go against the grain as she follows her heart. I hope she does go to London and follow her dream of travel!

It was interesting how Grace felt somewhat betrayed when Hannah told her sister about her secretly taking secretarial lessons. Their secret is no longer between the two of them.

[gosox]

---

grapes wrote:
Alfred's return from the war and his sudden change are very "real." He is the definition and description of the word "shell shock."

Not sure if anyone else noticed the reference to "feather" again when Mr. Hamilton states that "ever since [Alfred] got back he's been flighty as a feather." (193)

[gosox]

---

grapes wrote:
This is a book about change. The whole society is in flux. Women are looking for a different role, men are coming home from the war changed, the word unions, assembly lines is being thrown about. It's like all the characters in the book are involved in some sort of upheaval.

---

I agree with you completely, so much so that I thought this chapter could have easily been called "Change." Has Morton titled it "Bankers" to have the readers equate the word change with the "Bankers", the Luxtons who are to be so important to the "Family's Future?"(188)It is interesting that we don't actually meet the Bankers in this chapter!

[gosox]

I found it amusing when Hannah said to Emmeline, "Marriage isn't just about having a handsome man to dance with ... there's a lot more to it."(200) In the last chapter Grace tells Ursula that she ended up with John, a handsome man she met at a dance club.

Message Edited by gosox on 01-13-2008 04:48 PM

[rstjm4]

This chapter, I think, is where we really begin to see what impact the war is having on Riverton. David has since been killed, along with the Major. Frederick wants to make the best car possible with the best parts possible, but he doesn't want to use an assembly line. He feels that will bring down the quality of the work. Hannah is trying to stretch her wings and become independant. Lucy Starling appears as a character sort of lost in the middle, not quite a servant, not quite belonging upstairs. Emmeline is becoming a young woman and wanting to enter society.

Emmeline seems to swoon over Teddy Luxton, like she did over Robbie Hunter. Maybe Emmeline is feeling like the little girl and left out. She wants to have a marriage or even admirer to make her feel included in the "adult world". Hannah plans to tell her father that she wants to return to London, to work which causes Emmeline to become upset because the three that had become two will become one.

Emmeline also overhears talk about the bank taking over the factory, which has upset their father. The Americans are coming to discuss business, and hopefully save the factory. Frederick does not seem to be a good businessman and I think sometimes he is a little lost, not sure what to do. It seems like he was always overshadowed when he was younger and now that he is the master he is uncertain how to lead or make things run properly.

[KxBurns]

---

isugirl wrote:

It was interesting how Grace felt somewhat betrayed when Hannah told her sister about her secretly taking secretarial lessons. Their secret is no longer between the two of them.

---

That's the problem with secrets as a foundation for intimacy, isn't it? When the secret is shared, is the intimacy gone? Just something to think about, considering how prominently secrets figure in this story...

[fordmg]

---

dhaupt wrote:
I don't know if all aristocracy is loosing footing just at Riverton where Frederick continues his ill fated reign and is counting on his "Bankers" to get him out of hot water.
Lucy a seemingly minor character (now) appears for the first time upsetting the balance of the house according to the servants, and this is the greatest show of change in the structure of the classes that happens in this chapter I think.
I think it's significant that Emmeline compares herself to Juliet, and that Fanny finally gives up the chase for Frederick.
I've felt impending doom since I opened the book.

---

Did Fanny give up the chase, or did Miss Clem decide for her. It sounds like she married someone she doesn't know.
MG

[fordmg]

---

Tasses wrote:
Perhaps I am just an isolated American, but I couldn't help being a tiny bit offended by the negative connotations towards American money & Americans in general. Did anyone else get that vibe in this chapter? Is this still a prevailing theme in Europe or is Ms. Morton merely parroting the times past? I guess it just spiked a bit of patriotism in me... lol.

---

Americans were alway looked down on by "old money European" families. Actually there is a class difference between old and new money. Example - They Kennedy's were new money during the prohibition period. Now they are considered old money. First generation money is always second rate. It was more so after WWI, never mind that the Americans entering the war was what turned the tide in England's favor.
MG

[fordmg]

---

nickco3 wrote:
I'm not sure if it was in this chapter or the last chapter. But anyway, did anyone think it was odd when Grace was telling her mom about Fredrick and Fanny, and how he will marry her, to make his mother happy. Grace's mother was so certain he will NOT marry again? Is it really because she was so fond of Penelope, or because they were a true love that could never be? Let me know what you guys thought of that part.
Christine

---

Maybe Grace's mother knew that Frederick would not marry someone as silly as Fanny.
MG

[dhaupt]

---

fordmg wrote:

---

dhaupt wrote:
I don't know if all aristocracy is loosing footing just at Riverton where Frederick continues his ill fated reign and is counting on his "Bankers" to get him out of hot water.
Lucy a seemingly minor character (now) appears for the first time upsetting the balance of the house according to the servants, and this is the greatest show of change in the structure of the classes that happens in this chapter I think.
I think it's significant that Emmeline compares herself to Juliet, and that Fanny finally gives up the chase for Frederick.
I've felt impending doom since I opened the book.

---

Did Fanny give up the chase, or did Miss Clem decide for her. It sounds like she married someone she doesn't know.
MG

---

Good question, but when Grace observed that Fanny was trapped on her honeymoon with a strange man I didn't take it to mean strange as in she didn't know him rather than strange as in she didn't know men in general. So I do think that Fanny gave up the chase.
But I could be wrong and often am.
Debbie

Message Edited by dhaupt on 01-16-2008 10:42 AM

[kmliska]

---

grapes wrote:
Alfred's return from the war and his sudden change are very "real." He is the definition and description of the word "shell shock." I am reading about him and wondering if there is a chance or hope that his life will become better. At this time, he seems lost to those who care about him. Grace knows he's totally different. Her knowledge doesn't help her to know how to bring him out of himself, away from the horrors of war and back to the safety of the homefront. I feel very sorry for Alfred. This one character brings to mind all the men who suffered in the war, coming back to their families as strangers.

Grapes

---

I was really sad to see how much Alfred had changed. He really is shell shocked. I don't know that his life will ever be the same. It has to be hard to come back and try to resume a normal life after what you see while at war. I imagine he will struggle for quite a while.

[maude40]

I loved Ms. Morton's description of three in a relationship in a paragraph near the bottom of page 194. I never thought of a relationship of two needing one more to hold it together. Very interesting idea.
Yvonne

[kiakar]

---

maude40 wrote:
I loved Ms. Morton's description of three in a relationship in a paragraph near the bottom of page 194. I never thought of a relationship of two needing one more to hold it together. Very interesting idea.
Yvonne

---

I also liked that too. Kate came up with some wonderful writings about life in general, entertwined with the Riverton house.

[SandyS]

---

psujulie wrote:
What a depressing chapter! I can definitely see tragedy building for all of the characters.

Interesting. Depressing is not a word I would have used for this chapter. I do feel impending doom but am anxious to keep moving on.

SandyS

[SandyS]

---

KxBurns wrote:
That's the problem with secrets as a foundation for intimacy, isn't it? When the secret is shared, is the intimacy gone? Just something to think about, considering how prominently secrets figure in this story...

---

This is an extremely good point. Intimacies built on secrets usually seem to be very one-sided and crumble when the secret is either let out or no longer important.
It will be interesting to see if Hannah maintains any semblance of a relationship with Grace as the girls grow older (even though they are of different castes)

SandyS

[Jodi]

Grace talks about that she was in closet listening to Emmeline and Hannah's conversation. Alfred returns from war and is acting strange-shell shock.