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Frequent Contributor
paula_02912
Posts: 492
Registered: ‎12-18-2007
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Re: PART TWO: The Ball and After

katknit wrote: "I find this a common theme in English novels - from Jane Austen, the Brontes, till now. The failure of the characters to communicate their thoughts, worries, wishes, feelings. I often find myself thinking, "just TELL him, for heaven's sake!"

katknit, I understand what you are saying here...and sometimes I feel the same way, but I feel that our modern view/perspective on things colour our thoughts on how characters should or should not respond in books that share this common theme...one needs to remember that characters like Hannah, didn't have the freedom to voice their opinions, thoughts, feelings or emotions during the Victorian time period...women had to remember their place, so I can understand why Hannah had such a difficult time sharing her feelings with her father...the early part of the 20th century was a time when women were trying to spread their wings and I feel that society still impressed upon them that they have no place in politics and their duty was to stay in the home and ensure that it is run smoothly...despite wanting independence and freedom to be, Hannah was still under the power of her father's decisions, just by the mere fact that she was female...do you understand what I am saying?
Peace and love,
Paula R.

"Adversity causes some people to break, but causes others to break records."

Author Unknown
Frequent Contributor
paula_02912
Posts: 492
Registered: ‎12-18-2007
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Re: PART TWO: The Ball and After

Karen wrote: "Does anyone think Frederick is trying to prevent his daughter from making a mistake that he made? That maybe he hopes to spare her the heartbreak of a marriage of convenience?..."

Karen, these are great questions...I think that though it seems like Frederick was being selfish in wanting to keep Hannah at Riverton, ultimately he was trying to stop her from making the same mistakes he did, in not marrying for love...in retrospect I feel that Frederick, like Hannah, sought freedom from his overbearing father as well as the life of a second son, and to get away from it all he married Penelope as a means of escaping his life at Riverton...From what I have gathered, this marriage wasn't a good one and he does not want, Hannah, his favorite child to go through experiences he did by making a similar mistake...
Peace and love,
Paula R.

"Adversity causes some people to break, but causes others to break records."

Author Unknown
Frequent Contributor
Jodi
Posts: 65
Registered: ‎07-16-2007
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Re: PART TWO: The Ball and After

Grace tells the story of Hannah's party and how it went splendidly well.
She says she sees Hannah and Teddy talking about something, what she doesn't know. She sees Teddy kiss her hand. Then he walks away from her.
Hannah tells Grace to keep a secret that Teddy has asked her to marry him. Hannah hasn't gave a answer yet.
Simion Luxton tells Frederick that his factory was declined for refinance.
Frederick stayed in his study all thru the parties.
The doctors told Lady Clementine to stay away from Lady Violet because her illness was the virulent flu. She ignored the doctors and sat by her and talked to her about the party's success, about she tell her that she thinks that Hannah is engaged to Teddy Luxton.
Hannah the next morning, tells that she is engaged.
Lady Violet passes away knowing this happy news.
Grace gets the veil for Hannah and the dress and helps her put it on. Emmeline tells Hannah that she is leaving her and that she said that Hannah promised not to leave her and Hannah said no I never promised that but I said I wouldn't get a job, not get married.
Emmeline was holding the locket and opened it up and the book fell out of it. Emmeline saw this and said to Hannah that they were all gone. Emmeline ran from the room. The locket now does not close any more. The hinge now was broken.
Grace left the room, but listened onto Hannah's and Mr.Fredericks conversation behind the closed door. Grace heard Frederick telling Hannah not to marry Teddy. Also that he lost his business to them people. Frederick said to Hannah if she married Teddy, that she wouldn't be welcomed at home anymore. Hannah tells Frederick that she is going to take Grace with her, and Nancy can look out for Emmeline. When Grace heard that, she was very happy about it.
Hannah and Teddy got married on May,1919. Grace goes to London with Hannah and Teddy.
Robbie Hunter is back in the picture.
Distinguished Bibliophile
Peppermill
Posts: 6,768
Registered: ‎04-04-2007
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Re: PART TWO: The Ball and After


Jodi wrote:
Grace tells the story of Hannah's party and how it went splendidly well.
She says she sees Hannah and Teddy talking about something, what she doesn't know. She sees Teddy kiss her hand. Then he walks away from her.
Hannah tells Grace to keep a secret that Teddy has asked her to marry him. Hannah hasn't gave a answer yet.

Simion Luxton tells Frederick that his factory was declined for refinance.

Frederick stayed in his study all thru the parties.

The doctors told Lady Clementine to stay away from Lady Violet because
her illness was the virulent flu. She ignored the doctors and sat by her and talked to her about the party's success, about she tell her that she thinks that Hannah is engaged to Teddy Luxton.

Hannah the next morning, tells that she is engaged.

Lady Violet passes away knowing this happy news.

Grace gets the veil for Hannah and the dress and helps her put it on. Emmeline tells Hannah that she is leaving her and that she said that Hannah promised not to leave her and Hannah said no I never promised that but I said I wouldn't get a job, not get married.

Emmeline was holding the locket and opened it up and the book fell out of it. Emmeline saw this and said to Hannah that they were all gone. Emmeline ran from the room. The locket now does not close any more. The hinge now was broken.

Grace left the room, but listened onto Hannah's and Mr.Fredericks conversation behind the closed door. Grace heard Frederick telling Hannah not to marry Teddy. Also that he lost his business to them people. Frederick said to Hannah if she married Teddy, that she wouldn't be welcomed at home anymore. Hannah tells Frederick that she is going to take Grace with her, and Nancy can look out for Emmeline. When Grace heard that, she was very happy about it.

Hannah and Teddy got married on May,1919. Grace goes to London with Hannah and Teddy.

Robbie Hunter is back in the picture.



Are we ever told if the locket was fixed?
"Seize the moments of happiness, love and be loved! That is the only reality in the world, all else is folly. It is the one thing we are interested in here." -- Leo Tolstoy
Frequent Contributor
Kimmi373
Posts: 39
Registered: ‎10-19-2006
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Re: PART TWO: The Ball and After



KxBurns wrote:
That would have been some show-down! How do you think Frederick would have responded? You know, I just can't see him allowing either one... although since he was a businessman himself and someone pointed out how unusual that was for someone of his class, maybe he would have seen Hannah getting a job as the lesser of the two evils.




I can almost see poor Frederick working this one out in his head.

I think that he would have seen it as the lesser of two evils. At the dinner party there is discussion about how distasteful it is for Debbie to be working; Mr. Luxton particularly seems offended by the notion of women working. If in fact Hannah had given her father the ultimatum, work or marriage, it certainly could have been seen by Frederick as a way to "stick it" to the banker; he would rather have his daughter working then married into their family.
I don’t want realism. I want magic!
~ Tennessee Williams, "A Streetcar Named Desire"
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KxBurns
Posts: 1,006
Registered: ‎09-06-2007
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Re: PART TWO: The Ball and After


Kimmi373 wrote:


KxBurns wrote:
That would have been some show-down! How do you think Frederick would have responded? You know, I just can't see him allowing either one... although since he was a businessman himself and someone pointed out how unusual that was for someone of his class, maybe he would have seen Hannah getting a job as the lesser of the two evils.




I can almost see poor Frederick working this one out in his head.

I think that he would have seen it as the lesser of two evils. At the dinner party there is discussion about how distasteful it is for Debbie to be working; Mr. Luxton particularly seems offended by the notion of women working. If in fact Hannah had given her father the ultimatum, work or marriage, it certainly could have been seen by Frederick as a way to "stick it" to the banker; he would rather have his daughter working then married into their family.



What an intriguing idea -- I hadn't thought of spite as a motivator here. Too bad Hannah didn't think of it, either!
Correspondent
m3girl
Posts: 194
Registered: ‎03-02-2007
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Re: PART TWO: The Ball and After

Some notes from the chapter:

1. It is nice to see Hannah take Grace into her confidence again. She is the only one that Hannah can talk to without repercussions.

2. Hannah actually seems happy about the engagement. Perhaps her dreams still seem to be attainable...for now. And it is a better option than growing into an old maid out at Riverton.

3. Good to see that Grace was invited to go with Hannah. I am not sure what Frederick's comments really mean - my guess is that it is more about finances than about Grace and their connection.

4. More teasers at the end of part two. What's up with Robbie? Why didn't he go to Riverton with the parcel? Why does he still have it? When will he return to the story?

The author is good at creating intrigue.
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Popper19
Posts: 199
Registered: ‎07-24-2007
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Re: PART TWO: The Ball and After



m3girl wrote:
Some notes from the chapter:

1. It is nice to see Hannah take Grace into her confidence again. She is the only one that Hannah can talk to without repercussions.

2. Hannah actually seems happy about the engagement. Perhaps her dreams still seem to be attainable...for now. And it is a better option than growing into an old maid out at Riverton.

3. Good to see that Grace was invited to go with Hannah. I am not sure what Frederick's comments really mean - my guess is that it is more about finances than about Grace and their connection.

4. More teasers at the end of part two. What's up with Robbie? Why didn't he go to Riverton with the parcel? Why does he still have it? When will he return to the story?

The author is good at creating intrigue.




I'm enjoying reading your notes through the chapters. It's interesting to see how things are evolving in the story through your notes. It's been a few weeks since I finished the book, but I'm still really interested to see what people are commenting on.
Correspondent
m3girl
Posts: 194
Registered: ‎03-02-2007
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Re: PART TWO: The Ball and After

Why thanks. I got off to a late start as I was reading another book and had to finish that one first. I am almost finished - had to put it down last night to get some sleep. I hope to finish it up today and post the rest of my wandering thoughts...

Susan
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HannibalCat
Posts: 238
Registered: ‎10-25-2006
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Re: PART TWO: The Ball and After



kiakar wrote:


bookhunter wrote:


KxBurns wrote:
We backtrack slightly here, but this chapter raises some significant questions. Foremost in my mind is whether Emmeline is in love with Teddy. She flirts with him at the ball and later implores Hannah to leave him for someone who will truly love him.





Emmeline is a romantic. She is going to fall in love with anything that comes along. Robbie "saved her life" when she fell in the library, and now she is flirting with Teddy. I think she has the romanticized ideal marraige based on love alone in mind, and Hannah is being more practical.

I was pretty impressed with Lady Clem and Fanny's maneuvers! I didn't think they had that much subtle deceit in them!

So I think our question becomes...should Hannah marry Teddy? Are the reasons compelling enough?

Ann, bookhunter





I don't think either sister knew what true love really was. I do not feel that Hannah should marry Teddy. She doesn't love him, she finds something in him that she thinks can make her happier. Such as to see the world and he is rich. Emmeline is definitely a romantic but she hasnt a clue how to love a person to the end. The bed of roses want last much past the honeymoon.




I sooo agree with you. Neither young lady as a clue to what life and love are all about. They are spoiled with lack of attention. They can do whatever they want, and they think that getting what they want will make them happy. I feel bad for both of them. In fact, all the young ladies in this story are sadly lacking in any kind of true insights into what love and family are all about. There are no parents that have given any child the love and security needed to become loving adults.
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