Chapter 6: Methodology [ Edited ]

[KxBurns]

I thought there was much support in this chapter (which represents our entry into Saturday) for some of the ideas we've already discussed.

As Ginny lies awake, suffering from insomnia, she hears the bell and admits she hears it often: "…I know it's not the real bell at all, but that faint, relentless ringing in my ears, the reverberation of that single strike still trapped, rebounding round my head…" (p. 61-62). She later (top of p. 73) reiterates the singular impact that Vivi's fall had on her life. I think this is all pretty indicative of a guilty conscience; do you agree?

The strange issue of Dr. Moyse is developed a little bit further – first we learn more about his visits, during which he played games with Ginny (the simplicity of which probably hide their deeper purpose from her), and then Vivi makes reference to some recurring and "peculiar" dreams that Ginny has about Dr. Moyse (p. 67). This statement could support suspicions that Dr. Moyse engaged in inappropriate behavior, but I think Vivi's comment points more to her knowing something about Ginny that Ginny herself does not know. What do you think?

Ginny reveals that "What I fear is timelessness, a lack of structure in my life, an endless Now" (p. 64). But Vivi's arrival has certainly prompted the return of old memories, which Ginny describes as invading her head earlier in the chapter. It will be interesting to see if the distinction between memories and the present starts to dissolve for Ginny.

What did you take from Ginny's account of Maud and Clive's love affair? The passage underscores the difference between being "fond" of something and wanting to protect it, and being "fascinated by it," wanting to "unravel" its mysteries. This dual approach might dovetail nicely when it comes to nature, but can you see any difficulties it might cause in parenting?

The main interaction between the sisters in this chapter illustrates the push and pull between Ginny's desire for intimacy with her sister and her impulses toward isolation. Which do you think is winning out for now? What did you make of Vivi's curious reaction to the bed in Ginny's room?

Message Edited by KxBurns on 03-05-2008 12:29 PM

[carriele]

The first thing that I thought when reading this chapter was that Ginny was definitely feeling guilty about the bell tower incident.  She hears the bell frequently and then at times is sure she is only hallucinating, when coupled with the sleepless nights seem an indication of guilt to me. 

I also thought the scene where Vivi goes into the bedroom with Ginny was peculiar.  It seems Vivi knows Ginny well, but she enters the room without asking first.  Ginny is clearly upset about this invasion of privacy but Vivi doesn't seem to notice. 

I thought Vivi reacted to the bed in a state of confusion.  Ginny has gotten rid of most of the belongings in the house and yet kept Clive and Maud's bed.  She states she kept it because it is so comfortable.  But is that the true reason?  Also, why did Ginny stay in her parents room of the house as an adult?  Seeing how spacious the house is, I wouldn't think her room as a child would have been small or isolated from the rest of the house.

Speaking of the bed, I think we saw another bit of the problem that plagues Ginny since she states that she pins the sheets to the blanket and avoids messing up the bed.  I can't imagine it ever taking 55 minutes to make a bed.

Finally, I thought it was odd that there are no curtains in Ginny's bedroom.  For someone who is reclusive and values her privacy so much, I have a hard time believing that she would not keep her windows covered at all times. 

Carrie E. 

[pheath]

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carriele wrote:

Speaking of the bed, I think we saw another bit of the problem that plagues Ginny since she states that she pins the sheets to the blanket and avoids messing up the bed. I can't imagine it ever taking 55 minutes to make a bed.

Carrie E.

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This would be true for a normal person, but for someone with OCD tendencies 55 minutes is probably not out of the question. I could picture a very methodical and scientific inspection that the bed would have to pass before Ginny would consider it acceptable.

[kbbg42]

The curtains not being there is not that unusual as Ginny wants an uninterrupted veiw of the world. She is voyeristic and feels safe being able to see what is going on from the safety of the house. I don't get the feeling that she fears being spied on as she is too far from the road for a casual passerby to spy on her. In the other discussions there was a lot of talk about Ginny having aspergers and I must admit after having read this chapter I feel  the same.

[carriele]

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pheath wrote:

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carriele wrote:

Speaking of the bed, I think we saw another bit of the problem that plagues Ginny since she states that she pins the sheets to the blanket and avoids messing up the bed. I can't imagine it ever taking 55 minutes to make a bed.

Carrie E.

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This would be true for a normal person, but for someone with OCD tendencies 55 minutes is probably not out of the question. I could picture a very methodical and scientific inspection that the bed would have to pass before Ginny would consider it acceptable.

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That's so true.  I guess the 55 minute bed making bit is maybe an illustration as to why the chapter was entitled "Methodology". 

[blkeyesuzi]

Something I noticed is that Vivi commented on on the bed, "Well, I suppose it's mine, too." As if she coming back into Ginny's life and laying claim to everything again after all these years. She walks into the bedroom without knocking, she immediately begins snooping around and complaining about the way Ginny has handled things. How many of you would be ok with a visitor like this?

[dghobbs]

"The strange issue of Dr. Moyse is developed a little bit further – first we learn more about his visits, during which he played games with Ginny (the simplicity of which probably hide their deeper purpose from her), and then Vivi makes reference to some recurring and "peculiar" dreams that Ginny has about Dr. Moyse (p. 67). This statement could support suspicions that Dr. Moyse engaged in inappropriate behavior, but I think Vivi's comment points more to her knowing something about Ginny that Ginny herself does not know. What do you think?

Ginny reveals that "What I fear is timelessness, a lack of structure in my life, an endless Now" (p. 64).

I agree with these two points! I think we are going to find out alot more about the evil Dr. Moyse.

I really do love the line: "What I fear is timelessness, a lack of structure in my life, an endless Now". What a wonderful phrase - it tells so much about the character of Ginny - and perhaps a fear that many of us have or will have at some point in our lives ---doug

[Everyman]

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carriele wrote:
I thought Vivi reacted to the bed in a state of confusion. Ginny has gotten rid of most of the belongings in the house and yet kept Clive and Maud's bed. She states she kept it because it is so comfortable. But is that the true reason? Also, why did Ginny stay in her parents room of the house as an adult?

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And is there any relationship between her sleeping in her father's bed and her wearing her father's cardy? Is there something suggestive here?

[Everyman]

Not me!

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blkeyesuzi wrote:
Something I noticed is that Vivi commented on on the bed, "Well, I suppose it's mine, too." As if she coming back into Ginny's life and laying claim to everything again after all these years. She walks into the bedroom without knocking, she immediately begins snooping around and complaining about the way Ginny has handled things. How many of you would be ok with a visitor like this?

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[carriele]

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Everyman wrote:

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carriele wrote:
I thought Vivi reacted to the bed in a state of confusion. Ginny has gotten rid of most of the belongings in the house and yet kept Clive and Maud's bed. She states she kept it because it is so comfortable. But is that the true reason? Also, why did Ginny stay in her parents room of the house as an adult?

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And is there any relationship between her sleeping in her father's bed and her wearing her father's cardy? Is there something suggestive here?

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I have had similar thoughts about the relationship between Ginny and Clive.  Maybe this could could explain why Vivi reacted to the bed the way she did?

[DSaff]

The thing that stood out most to me in this chapter was Ginny's compulsive drive for things to be in a set pattern. She lies awake listening to the movements of her sister, knowing where she is at each moment. It seems that Ginny feels invaded, although after 50 years there would be a little of this feeling. But, Ginny takes it further. She is obsessed with the clocks again and with the way things are done. One thought gets repeated: "there's a definite method to it" with making the bed (pg. 69) and making the tea (pg. 71). Vivi acts like nothing has changed by knocking and entering before invited, and by asking to get under the covers. Vivi doesn't seem to notice any changes in her sister, which is surprising due to the changes in the house.

[LizzieAnn]

Once again with hit head on with Ginny's obsession with time.  It occupies such a large part of her thoughts that I can't help but wonder if it contributes to her insomnia.  Those who suffer from insomnia do often look at the clock throughout the night - waiting for it to be late enough to wake up, so that made perfect sense.  But Ginny's preoccupation with timelessness seems to be extremely consuming.

Also, her OCD is made more apparent with her commentary about her bedding:  how she gets in without messing it up, how the sheet is safety-pinned to the blanket, how everything is just so, and how it takes her 55 minutes to get exactly right.  We also see the OCD regarding the tea that Vivien brings her - it's too milk and spilled onto the saucer, so she'd never drink it.  She talks about her tea needing to be just right - and the methodology in that.

She seems consumed by order, by time, by methodology, and by strict control.  It makes me wonder what would happen if she lost control.  I can't help but wonder if she subconsciously knows she needs to maintain control.  She didn't even get Vivien's joke.

It was also interesting the comment Vivien made about the bed being hers also and the fact that Ginny said she had inherited the bed. 

Also the bit about Ginny having dreams about the doctor is very interesting, especially since she was thinking about playing cards with him several times.

Message Edited by LizzieAnn on 03-05-2008 01:52 PM

[Everyman]

A passage that struck me was on page 60 where she says "the reverberation of that single strike still trapped, rebounding in my head from when I was eleven..." I had forgotten that on page 14 she had mentioned that when Vivi fell she grabbed at the bell and "it rang, and the echo of that strike gave to me a resounding significance, a lifetime of noise."

[kbbg42]

Maybe ther arn't any real changes in Ginny, she may have always been like that and that is why Vivi acts the way she does.

[Everyman]

Ginny's obsession with time is notable on page 61 where, even in the middle of the night, she is conscious that Vivi arrived "fifteen hours and thirteen minutes ago."

And when she talks a few lines later about this obsession with time, she says "All things have order people should be ordered..." What a sad approach to people. No creativity, no spontaneity, no carefree happiness, just order. Time-dictated order.

[LizzieAnn]

Her obsession is so strong that I can't help but think it's been a part of her for a long time.

Everyman wrote:

Ginny's obsession with time is notable on page 61 where, even in the middle of the night, she is conscious that Vivi arrived "fifteen hours and thirteen minutes ago."

And when she talks a few lines later about this obsession with time, she says "All things have order people should be ordered..." What a sad approach to people. No creativity, no spontaneity, no carefree happiness, just order. Time-dictated order.

[Everyman]

For me, the main thing I take from this chapter is that Ginny is so totally consumed with order and method. She can't even drink the tea because it wasn't properly made. She can't sleep in a bed if it isn't properly made.

She and Vivi are NOT going to get along living together!

[AnnaB]

I was also uncomfortable with Vivi's comment, "Well, I suppose it's (the bed) mine too..."  Clearly Ginny was uncomfortable with her presence in her private bedroom, and then to infer that everything actually belonged to her too....   It was interesting how surprised Vivi was to see the bed in the first place. 

I also got the impression that Vivi knew something about the visits by the Dr.  Her comment sure made her sound like she was covering something. 

This chapter was full of very telling comments. Insight in to the history of the family/sister's relationship. 

[KATER]

If Vivi has known Ginny and has known her "issues" whatever they may be then why is she not respecting that.  What will make Ginny break?  Will she ever stand up to Vivi and say how everything is affecting her? 

[kiakar]

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carriele wrote:

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Everyman wrote:

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carriele wrote:
I thought Vivi reacted to the bed in a state of confusion. Ginny has gotten rid of most of the belongings in the house and yet kept Clive and Maud's bed. She states she kept it because it is so comfortable. But is that the true reason? Also, why did Ginny stay in her parents room of the house as an adult?

---

And is there any relationship between her sleeping in her father's bed and her wearing her father's cardy? Is there something suggestive here?

---

I have had similar thoughts about the relationship between Ginny and Clive.  Maybe this could could explain why Vivi reacted to the bed the way she did?

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He would never have had time to do that crime, I do not believe. It didnt concern his experiments.