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dhaupt
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Re: Chapter 6: Methodology

[ Edited ]
In this chapter we find out about Ginny's insomnia and how she hears the bell in the tower only it's not the real one. I don't know if I attribute hearing the bell w/quilt I thinks the jury is still out on that in my mind.
I have just about convinced myself that Dr. Moyse is a psychiatrist by the little games he plays with Ginny. I haven't decided yet if I think there's any inappropriate behavior between the good doctor and Ginny.
I have noticed Ginny's continued obsession with time, she mentions Vivis been home 15hrs and 13 mins. She seems to be remembering the past more since Vivis been home.
She seems to me to be very lucid in this chapter knowing that the lack of exercise is not good for her arthritis.
I am impressed by Maud and her revolutionary thinking on conservation and I think she and Clive have a very good relationship. I liked how they planned and built the gardens together even though they were for what else, Moths.
I finally got a glimpse of Ginny the big sister when she describes how she comforted Vivi as a child when she had nightmares or couldn't sleep.

Message Edited by dhaupt on 03-05-2008 03:05 PM
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MsMorninglight
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Re: Chapter 6: Methodology



LizzieAnn wrote:
Her obsession is so strong that I can't help but think it's been a part of her for a long time.
Possibly.  But she did say  "As I've grown older I've realized how essential it is keeping time, being on time & knowing time."  But the irony & mystery are, why is time so important to her?  She doesn't leave the house, she doesn't interact with people; it doesn't sound like she even works with her moths & butterflies any longer.
 
She also says, "What I fear is timelessness, a lack of structure in my life, an endless Now".   I wonder, is it really Death that she fears?  That would be the ultimate timelessness for some.
 

 



"Three things in human life are important. The first is to be kind. The second is to be kind. And the third is to be kind." - Henry James
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LisaMM
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Re: Chapter 6: Methodology

I liked the part about the chandelier on page 66. It shows how differently the sisters view their world. One so positive, one so negative.

"Don't you miss it?" Vivien adds, but before I have a chance to tell her I don't, she carries on, "Remember how Maud let us lie in here when we were ill? I spent hours gazing up at that chandelier, imagining that all the sparkly light was helping me get better."

"Were you? I was always thinking it was about to fall on me," I say. "I spent all the time watching the hook at the top, trying to work out if it was close to giving way. Exhausting," I sigh.


It seems Ginny finds a lot of things "exhausting"!
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AnnieS
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Re: Chapter 6: Methodology



MsMorninglight wrote:


LizzieAnn wrote:
Her obsession is so strong that I can't help but think it's been a part of her for a long time.
Possibly.  But she did say  "As I've grown older I've realized how essential it is keeping time, being on time & knowing time."  But the irony & mystery are, why is time so important to her?  She doesn't leave the house, she doesn't interact with people; it doesn't sound like she even works with her moths & butterflies any longer.
 
She also says, "What I fear is timelessness, a lack of structure in my life, an endless Now".   I wonder, is it really Death that she fears?  That would be the ultimate timelessness for some.
 


Ginny was taught by Maude and Clive to respect time and order.  They structured her life.  The planned every detail, all decisions were made by them or others.   The study of moths is based on a constant structure of hatching, pupating, cacooning and becoming a butterfly.  There is time and order.  The perfect career for Ginny.  As she grows older she has realized how essential it is because no one else is doing it for her.  Everyone else is gone.
 
 
Ginny's



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LisaMM
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Re: Chapter 6: Methodology

I thought the end of the chapter was interesting too, when Vivi mentions Ginny's tea's gone cold, and Ginny thinks-

-but to tell you the truth, I'd never have drunk it. It's far too milky and it's been spilt on the saucer. My tea needs to be the exact mix of strength and color, and there's a definite method to that.

Yes, I think she's definitely displaying OCD tendencies. How will she react to the disruption in her routine caused by Vivi moving in? I don't think it will be pleasant!!!
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no4daughter
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Re: Chapter 6: Methodology

When reading this chapter I was struck by Ginny's obsession with time.  She has 6 clocks which include "a watch on each wrist (digital on the left and dial on the right). . ." (p.61) and her bedmaking ritual that takes 55 minutes.
 
I also found the following passage (p.65) interesting and sad:  "It's not an uninteresting pastime, looking at the progression of the damp throught the walls, the peeling of the ceiling paint and the marching of the creeper up the wall and in through the window."  At first I though Ginny liked being alone, but now I am not so sure.    
 
After reading Ginny's thoughts about Vivien on page 70, ". . .every minute I have with her, the less I see the old woman who arrived on my doorstep yesterday and the more I see the little girl I've always adored, the one I knew before life hurt her too much".  I am curious to find out what happens to hurt Vivien.   
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fordmg
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Re: Chapter 6: Methodology



carriele wrote:


Everyman wrote:


carriele wrote:
I thought Vivi reacted to the bed in a state of confusion. Ginny has gotten rid of most of the belongings in the house and yet kept Clive and Maud's bed. She states she kept it because it is so comfortable. But is that the true reason? Also, why did Ginny stay in her parents room of the house as an adult?


And is there any relationship between her sleeping in her father's bed and her wearing her father's cardy? Is there something suggestive here?

I have had similar thoughts about the relationship between Ginny and Clive.  Maybe this could could explain why Vivi reacted to the bed the way she did?


Vivian asked about the missing chandelier.  She comments on how she enjoyed laying in the bed as a child when she was sick.  Vivian thought the chandelier sparkeled down and helped her heal.  Ginny says she didn't like the chandelier.  She thought it would fall down on her, she got no comfort in laying in the bed when she was sick.

MG

 

 
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psujulie
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Re: Chapter 6: Methodology

A few things stood out for me in this chapter -- Ginny cerrtainly seems to be suffering from some type of mental illness. A lot of her obsessive/compulsive nature really showed up in this chapter. Also, her lack of understanding Vivien's sarcasm about the curtains might indicate some sort of autism.
 
What is truly amazing for me is that Ginny likes everything just so, but she can live with so much dust. I have a hard time understanding that the sheets having to be perfect, yet there can be lots of dust on the furniture.
 
I also thought that Ginny's comments about her Vivien's eyes were very telling. On page 70, she says " It is her eyes that are the most changed. Once they were a strong bright blue, scattered with natural shards of silver that made them sparkle as bright and vivacious and hypnotic as the girl herself. But now they're faded to a weak gray-blue, dulled by the life they've seen." I
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psujulie
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Re: Chapter 6: Methodology

A few things stood out for me in this chapter -- Ginny cerrtainly seems to be suffering from some type of mental illness. A lot of her obsessive/compulsive nature really showed up in this chapter. Also, her lack of understanding Vivien's sarcasm about the curtains might indicate some sort of autism.
 
What is truly amazing for me is that Ginny likes everything just so, but she can live with so much dust. I have a hard time understanding that the sheets having to be perfect, yet there can be lots of dust on the furniture.
 
I also thought that Ginny's comments about her Vivien's eyes were very telling. On page 70, she says " It is her eyes that are the most changed. Once they were a strong bright blue, scattered with natural shards of silver that made them sparkle as bright and vivacious and hypnotic as the girl herself. But now they're faded to a weak gray-blue, dulled by the life they've seen." I wonder
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Everyman
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Re: Chapter 6: Methodology

dhaupt wrote: I have just about convinced myself that Dr. Moyse is a psychiatrist by the little games he plays with Ginny.

But then what do you do with the information (pg. 16) that he cured a number of real diseases?
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psujulie
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Re: Chapter 6: Methodology

A few things stood out for me in this chapter -- Ginny cerrtainly seems to be suffering from some type of mental illness. A lot of her obsessive/compulsive nature really showed up in this chapter. Also, her lack of understanding Vivien's sarcasm about the curtains might indicate some sort of autism.
 
What is truly amazing for me is that Ginny likes everything just so, but she can live with so much dust. I have a hard time understanding that the sheets having to be perfect, yet there can be lots of dust on the furniture.
 
I also thought that Ginny's comments about her Vivien's eyes were very telling. On page 70, she says " It is her eyes that are the most changed. Once they were a strong bright blue, scattered with natural shards of silver that made them sparkle as bright and vivacious and hypnotic as the girl herself. But now they're faded to a weak gray-blue, dulled by the life they've seen." I wonder if we'll learn more about this in future chapters.
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noannie
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Re: Chapter 6: Methodology

I think ginny is sufferuing from OCD. She cannot drink the tea if it is not made properly or sleep in a bed if it is not made to her standards. Vivi doesn't seem to notice this in her sister.
 
noannie
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Everyman
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Re: Chapter 6: Methodology

I wonder whether by the end of the book we will be told specifically what her disorder is, or whether it will remain a perpetual mystery for us to try to figure out from the symptoms we are given.

If you have read to the end of the book and know the answer, don't tell me or us! This is a speculative question, not a request for information!

noannie wrote:
I think ginny is sufferuing from OCD. She cannot drink the tea if it is not made properly or sleep in a bed if it is not made to her standards. Vivi doesn't seem to notice this in her sister.
noannie



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runnybabbit620
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Re: Chapter 6: Methodology

"What I fear is timelessness, a lack of structure in my life, an endless Now."
 
This statement seems to sum up the whole of the chapter.  While I am still agreeing with what other people are commenting about how Ginny seems to display some key signs of OCD,  she sure is spending a lot of time in reminiscence.
 
As for her still owning Clive and Maud's bed.  I guess that some furniture still has ?sentimental? value to her.  She even goes as far as to admit that it's "incredibly comfortable".  Still, this piece, along with other clues and cues DOES make you wonder if Ginny and Clive ended up having a relationship farther than that of father/ daughter and teacher/apprentice...
 
I DID also find it odd that Ginny, for all her privacy and timeliness, has no curtains in her bedroom.  Maybe she wants to get up with the break of day and "make the most of every moment".  Although how she's making the most of it by what she's describing of her day-to-day, I begin to wonder.
 
Then, again, with Vivi's reaction, I begin to wonder if Ginny and Clive's relationship WAS strictly parental/professional and Clive's relationship with Vivi may have been slightly predatory?  Especially when Dr. Moyse would be "playing card games" with only Ginny makes me wonder if Dr. Moyse's relationship was strictly professional/friendly.
 
Also, on p.70 Ginny remarks further to Vivi that Michael offered to buy the house and let her live in the Stables and that she passed up the offer.  I am wondering why she made the decision to stay when she has sold off so much furniture and closed off all but the South wing until Vivi's return.
 
I think that, while excited for Vivi's return, Ginny is still nervous with her presence and still feeling her issues out (and trying to find out what Vivi's doing).
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CAG
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Re: Chapter 6: Methodology

I think Ginny was taught by her parents to respect time and order (structure in her life was all important.) Perhaps this explains that something is amiss within her although I am not sure what that is. She seems to have a bit of an obsessive nature.
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ELee
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Re: Chapter 6: Methodology



Everyman wrote:
A passage that struck me was on page 60 where she says "the reverberation of that single strike still trapped, rebounding in my head from when I was eleven..." I had forgotten that on page 14 she had mentioned that when Vivi fell she grabbed at the bell and "it rang, and the echo of that strike gave to me a resounding significance, a lifetime of noise."

But what is really "striking" (pardon) is that the torment of the bell is not the memory of Vivi and her fall, the real "torment is not knowing if it's the sound's in my [Ginny's] head or if it's the real bell ringing in the wind".  She is so obsessed with what is real, real time, real sound, that it is more important to her than any other association.  The further into this we get, the more I wonder just how much, if any, emotion she is capable of.  
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Lildove3
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Re: Chapter 6: Methodology

Ginny certainly is suffering from a disorder, I'm not a doctor, but her symptoms are not only ocd but it
also show signs of manic drepressive...her sister Vivi, certainly doesn't show any compassion for
Ginny's feeling but then again Ginny and Vivi could be one and the same...time to read on...
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Everyman
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Re: Chapter 6: Methodology

Several people have commented about how strange it is that she has no curtains in her bedroom.

I don't find it that strange. She's out in the country, on the (to us) second floor, so what's the need for privacy? I suspect that probably there were old curtains there which had finally rotted away, and she never had the gumption to replace them.
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gosox
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Re: Chapter 6: Methodology



runnybabbit620 wrote:
"What I fear is timelessness, a lack of structure in my life, an endless Now."
 
 
Several people have commented on this passage, and I agree, it was a pretty powerful message. However, what I found significant about this paragraph was the preceding sentences that begin with another reference to her old age!
 
"We all have our idiosyncracies, especially at my age. Some people - on approaching old age -  fear senility, others immobility, memory loss, confusion, madness. .. . . an endless Now." (62)
 
I tend to agree with others who have expressed reservations about Adams depiction of these characters as elderly woman. I do admit that Ginny has become much older than her years as a result of her isolation, however, I am curious if the author has had any close relationships with people in their late 60s and early 70s. What is Ginny's point of reference for these observations?
 
Also, not only does Vivi comment that "I suppose  it's really my bed too," (69)  Ginny notes that Vivi traces the headboard like a "blind man."(70)  Although, Ginny sees her actions as those of a young girl, I could not help but think - what is she looking for?
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mimi29
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Re: Chapter 6: Methodology

I definitely agree that Vivi knows something about Ginny that Ginny herself doesn't know.  The possibilities are intriguing. 
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