Chapter 7: Breakfast

[readmoreino8]

I agree with the readers who believe Vivi is looking for something, not just exploring the house.  I am also eager to find out more about Vivi's relationship with her father.  She has some strong negative feelings and I wonder if they are in any way related to whatever she may have heard while listening to her parents conversations from inside the wall hiding place. Did she tell Ginny the truth about what she overheard?

[KxBurns]

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readmoreino8 wrote:

I agree with the readers who believe Vivi is looking for something, not just exploring the house.  I am also eager to find out more about Vivi's relationship with her father.  She has some strong negative feelings and I wonder if they are in any way related to whatever she may have heard while listening to her parents conversations from inside the wall hiding place. Did she tell Ginny the truth about what she overheard?

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Ooh, great thought -- and who is to say that Vivi did not regularly eavesdrop on her parents from this hiding place?

[dordavis33]

This chapter was very revealing. I guess what really stuck out to me was the disparity between the sisters in their perceptions of their parents. Vivian almost appear to be repulsed by the fact that Ginny offered her something of their dad's. In Vivi's eyes, Ginny was the favored child of her father. There was nothing he wouldn't do for her. Funny how Ginny didn't see such a relationship. Or did she? she kept things of her father's but have absolutely nothing, not even a rag, from her mother?! The dynamics in this family were unbelievable because it seemed as if Maud neither Clive were really concerned about Vivi's future but Ginny had to be protected from either herself or from others. Did the parents even realize that they were driving an invisible wedge between the girls?

[dordavis33]

"...Vivien is somewhere deep within the bowels of the house, infecting it..." I think that is quite a harsh statement to make about one's eagerly awaited long-lost sister. Infecting the house as if she is some type of contagion. If Ginny is so happy for her sister to be home once again after all these years, why is she so bothered by her sister looking around the house? Sure, Vivien may be looking for something or she could just be exploring the house after all these years. Either way, couldn't Ginny just ask her sister instead of spying on her? For her to be excited about having her sister home, her actions don't quite line up.

[Jaelin]

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KxBurns wrote:

Three major questions are raised by this chapter and I have a feeling the answers are completely intertwined.

-Why is the past so dangerous, and such a burden to Ginny? What ghosts or secrets is she attempting to expurgate? Why does she feel relief watching Bobby remove "…not just our childhood and my life, but one and a half centuries of the Bulburrow epoch" (p. 76)?

-What is Vivi looking for?! (Alternately, is it possible that Vivi is just getting reaquainted with her childhood home but the idea of exploring the property is so foreign to Ginny that she assumes something else is going on?)

-How do you account for Vivi's bitterness toward Clive, and the sisters' radically different memories of their father? Ginny appears to chalk it up to jealousy; do you agree?

Message Edited by KxBurns on 03-05-2008 12:33 PM

Message Edited by KxBurns on 03-05-2008 06:41 PM

Message Edited by KxBurns on 03-05-2008 06:42 PM

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I get the feeling that Ginny is glad the furniture is gone for many reasons.  She doesn't have to worry about it, she doesn't need to clean it, It will not just rot and be worthless,  It will make money for her well being, It is better to have someone love and use it, and the big one that strikes me is that she never talks about children or nieces and nephews so the two of them are most likely alone so why keep something that will go to the state......

I have been back to "home" and it seems like nothing has changed and everything has changed.  It is neat to wonder around and see the changes or lack of changes in the house.  Vivi was probably doing this though it is possible she was looking for something.  It is intriguing to see that Ginny is concerned with this.  It could be the feeling that she had about all the items in the house, what I mentioned above, is not being rethought.  She could be wondering if she did the right thing and is now having to justify to herself if she did the right thing or not by depriving Vivi of the memories or the opportunity to have something that she wanted. 

We all see people differently.  Clive and Ginny got on since they were of like mind or at least had the same interests same with Vivi and Maud.  Even when living in the same house people do not always see each other and since the house was one that was huge it is possible that Vivi saw things that Ginny would not have.  This is something that we may never know since we only "see" Ginny's side of the story.  

[ELee]

"As we grew up, Red House, as it was often called on account of the Virginia creeper that turns the south side a deep red each autumn,..." (p 7)

"Then I hear her....As I creep up the stairs I hear the footsteps again, and by the halfway landing I know she's in the attic."  (p 75)

Did anyone notice that there is more than one "Virginia creeper"?  One on the outside, and another on the inside!

[BookSavage]

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ELee wrote:

"As we grew up, Red House, as it was often called on account of the Virginia creeper that turns the south side a deep red each autumn,..." (p 7)

"Then I hear her....As I creep up the stairs I hear the footsteps again, and by the halfway landing I know she's in the attic."  (p 75)

Did anyone notice that there is more than one "Virginia creeper"?  One on the outside, and another on the inside!

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This is a very good observation.  Due to having a first person narrator, Ginny's character has surely not be revealed completely.  I think we may be in for some suprises, at least I hope there is something to redeem this novel.

[niknak13]

Vivi may be searching for something specific in the house, she may be searching only for something that was her mother's, or she may be just looking at the house she grew up in.  After being gone for so many years, I think I'd want to tour my childhood home and take it all in.  Maybe she's searching for answers and looking for something to explain (in her own mind) why she left so many years ago? 

[niknak13]

Also, and I apologize if this was mentioned already . . . didn't we read earlier that the teapot was Maud's?  It was Belinda's teapot, but Ginny said that it was Maud's.  We know that Vivi made tea for Ginny - did she not see or use the teapot? 

[lamorgan]

I, too, am curious about what Vivi is looking for. I haven't decided yet if it's an actual item or some distant memory.

I'm beginning to feel sorry for Ginny. She is obviously being taken advantage of by Vivi.

Ginny hates change and here is Vivi, showing up after all these years, and immediately sets out to change the way Ginny does things. She expects Ginny to eat the same foods she does and drink her tea the same way.

Poor Ginny!

[Lildove3]

It seems obvious there is one or two reasons why Vivi is searching the whole house.  1 she wants

to remember the good times or 2. she wants to find something to keep for here own. Ginny is worried

about something other than the fact she doesn't want Vivi to search the house, plus her mental state of

mind is not very stable.

[KxBurns]

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lamorgan wrote:

I'm beginning to feel sorry for Ginny. She is obviously being taken advantage of by Vivi.

Ginny hates change and here is Vivi, showing up after all these years, and immediately sets out to change the way Ginny does things. She expects Ginny to eat the same foods she does and drink her tea the same way.

Poor Ginny!

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Gosh, I disagree -- that is not how I read Vivi's character at all. I can't think of any actual changes she asks Ginny to make; she just apparently forgot how Ginny likes her tea, and she offered pizza when there was no other dinner to be had.

Regardless of how we feel about Vivi (and we can certainly agree to disagree; I know I'm in the minority for not disliking her), I'd like to toss a question out there for us to consider. When do you cross the line between accomodating an illness and promoting it? It's starting to seem like all Ginny's life she has been protected and sheltered from something about herself. And as a result her connection to the world is at a bare minimum. So maybe her family has done her no favors by coddling her?...

Would love to hear all your thoughts on this issue!

[Peppermill]

The world may be full of fourth-rate writers but it's also full of fourth-rate readers. ~ Stan Barstow ~

But that doesn't mean we can't all consider Mark Twain's admonition:

"Don't read good books. There isn't time for that. Read only the best."


Even as we all enjoy writers across the spectrum at times and sometimes are fourth-rate readers ourselves!

[BookSavage]

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KxBurns wrote:

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lamorgan wrote:

I'm beginning to feel sorry for Ginny. She is obviously being taken advantage of by Vivi.

Ginny hates change and here is Vivi, showing up after all these years, and immediately sets out to change the way Ginny does things. She expects Ginny to eat the same foods she does and drink her tea the same way.

Poor Ginny!

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Gosh, I disagree -- that is not how I read Vivi's character at all. I can't think of any actual changes she asks Ginny to make; she just apparently forgot how Ginny likes her tea, and she offered pizza when there was no other dinner to be had.

Regardless of how we feel about Vivi (and we can certainly agree to disagree; I know I'm in the minority for not disliking her), I'd like to toss a question out there for us to consider. When do you cross the line between accomodating an illness and promoting it? It's starting to seem like all Ginny's life she has been protected and sheltered from something about herself. And as a result her connection to the world is at a bare minimum. So maybe her family has done her no favors by coddling her?...

Would love to hear all your thoughts on this issue!

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I agree with you, I have found no reason to really dislike the Vivi.  In fact, if there is a character I dislike it would be Ginny.  More importantly though, I feel like I cannot really be attached to either character because I feel like I have only been shown bits and pieces of each one.  I really look forward to seeing their full development as the book continues.

[KxBurns]

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BookSavage wrote:

More importantly though, I feel like I cannot really be attached to either character because I feel like I have only been shown bits and pieces of each one.  I really look forward to seeing their full development as the book continues.

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So true!

[MissKay1]

I found myself very intrigued by the question of Vivi possibly looking for something.

I also found myself getting upset with her sister's OCD behavior.

[nfam]

It seems to me that the relationships between the people in the house were rather strange. We obviously aren't being told everything because the narrator, Ginny, either doesn't know what the interactions meant, or she doesn't want to say.

I keep remembering that Ginny said that Maud taught her to go into a secret room within herself and lock the door so that she was completely away from the outside world. This sound remarkably like the descriptions given by child abuse victims of how they managed to survive. It makes me wonder if child abuse was part of what kept the sisters together and also drove them apart. It's just a thought, but the description is very suggestive. If Maud were the abuser, and Ginny, the victim, it would explain why she kept nothing of Maud's. Perhaps Clive was the protector, not just her colleague, but her physical protector. Just a thought, but it
might explain some of Ginny's rather bizarre behavior.

I have to admit that I am starting to find this book tedious. Ginny is a very unappealing character and all we seem to focus on is how she's sneaking around, spying, or wanting to hide form the world. I hope the pace picks up soon.

Nancy

[bentley]

I am not sure why Ginny allowed Bobby to rob her blind. Maybe she thought that by getting away from the possessions she could erase the past. Ginny thinks that Vivian is looking for something. I have no idea; maybe Vivian is just exploring as she always did before. I think Vivian felt that Clive and Ginny absorbed each other and were alike as two peas. Maybe she felt left out as her mother must have felt. Was it jealousy or is one person's memory grounded in reality and saneness and the other grounded in mental illness. I cannot tell yet. But Ginny appears to be slightly autistic and compulsive. Being alone has not fared to well for her.

[m3girl]

Playing catch up is interesting as I know the answers to several of those questions already....but will only comment on my notes from this chapter....

It was nice to get some details on the size of the house (yikes >30K sq ft is huge).

I now know what she meant by the burden of history and what was so bad about what happened - or at least I have some idea about it....

I thought the line about Vivien deep within the bowels of the house, infecting it - was awesome!  And quite effective showing Ginny's feelings of discomfort with her visitor.  What is Vi looking for?  Was she looking for the moth collections?  Were they of some value?  After Ginny questions Vi's actions and motives she moves back into a flashback....this is done quite effectively....and smoothly.

At this point, Vi seems like a normal teenage girl - eager to get out into the world and live....why is Ginny so different?  And then Vi's perspective on their parents is the opposite of what I would have thought - saying they only listen to Ginny....I highly doubt that.  Perhaps that was just the comment of a spoiled young girl.

Page 78 - at the transition:  Then she told me the plan - another great teaser!!!  What plan?   Read on.....

Here is a big question I hope gets answered - why did Clive agree to send Vi (age 15) to London?  Was her trying to get her out of the house - one less distraction from his moth projects?  What did Vi overhear?

What was this Bobby up to - ripping out the mantle?  I know they can be valuable but was he taking advantage of the crazy old lady (Ginny)?

Does Vi have any real stake in the house she abandoned 50 years ago?

I am intrigued to learn more about what was happening in the house that Vi knew about but Ginny did not - and if Vi knew it why didn't she tell Ginny?

I am also getting interested to learn more about the circumstances of Maud's death....and where Vi was and more...

Susan

[BookSavage]

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m3girl wrote:

What was this Bobby up to - ripping out the mantle?  I know they can be valuable but was he taking advantage of the crazy old lady (Ginny)?

Susan

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I am well past this chapter and that portion still bothers me.  I cannot make sense of that action.

Message Edited by BookSavage on 03-12-2008 04:44 PM