Chapter 9: Another Trap

[KxBurns]

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crazyasitsounds wrote:

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KxBurns wrote:
Here's another possible reason for Clive's secrecy: he views Ginny as untrustworthy, either mentally or as a colleague...

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That's true, & I hadn't thought of that possibility. My reactions to the events in this novel have been strongly colored by the fact that they're all told from Ginny's perspective. Every time something happens, I take Ginny's narration at face value. I never want to blame her for anything.

I should know better.

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I'm having the opposite problem. I find everything Ginny says to be so suspect that I really don't feel the same antipathy toward Vivi that many readers seem to be feeling.

[grapes]

I feel the moths have a lot to do with the book too. I feel the moths must symbolize the character traits of the family. When I read about the cannibal moths, I wondered which two in the family would  seem like those type of moths? It's an ugly thought. To me, moths are ugly too.

Grapes

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[grapes]

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sheshe703 wrote:

I thought the same thing, that it was all in Ginny's mind.  Then as I read more I wondered if Ginny was just a ghost (kind of like the Nicole Kidman movie "The Others") and Vivi came back to empty out the house after Ginny's death, only to find that it was empty because Ginny had been selling things off.  I cannot wait to finish this book just to see how it all comes together.

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I feel the same way. I would find it impossible not to finish the book. I want to see how "The Sister" ends.

Grapes

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[bentley]

Yes, we can see how things changed when Vivian got expelled. Why did the school say that it was a package deal; and they only took Ginny because they were getting Vivian? What was wrong with Ginny? I believe that Clive is a secretive man who is as walled off as Ginny; maybe he had a problem with trust as well. Bernard trapped Clive into doing the challenge; he seemed to know him a lot better than most folks; so to me that is one of the traps and the Robinson trap was another. Ginny truly believed that her father would reject such a gift and apparently he did not. I think Maud is beginning to find some solace in an alternate world (alcohol). The only think that Vivian wants is to escape. The question that I still have is why she came back; to face demons, to get something of her parents. I don't know the answer yet. Who was the driver?

[lamorgan]

With each new chapter, it becomes more and more obvious to me that this is a very dysfunctional family. Every member has some quirk to their nature that prevents them from having a "normal" relationship with the others.

I, like many others here, are having some problems reading this book. Of course, I will finish it and hope it improves and because I do enjoy these discussions.

[m3girl]

The lead in here is great!  It was 1959, the year that changed everything....yikes!

I was interested to learn more about Bernard's challenge. 

I don't know why Clive would hold back the information on his presentation from Ginny except that it gave him some sort of power.  Perhaps she was proving to be more of a collegue and less of an assistant - thus the need to hold 'power'...

The Robinson moth collector was cool and I understand why he liked it - not sure why he acted uninterested until he got it as a gift - was it too expensive?  Scientists are interesting like this...new vs old....superstitions...

What is with the little black moth and the variance from protocol?

Susan

[meme1]

I, too, think that Maud was a drinker, but I keep thinking of her treatment of Ginny when Vivian "fell" or was pushed out of the tower. Maybe it wasn't the drinking, but rather a mental illness because Maud seemed to hate that Ginny wasn't hurt.

I'm hoping that all the info on moths will have a significance when I finish the book!

meme1

[Readingrat]

After this chapter I feel that the problem Vivi had earlier with Clive was probably that he was so wrapped up in his work that he neglected everything that was not connected with that work. Therefore Vivi and Maud felt neglected while Ginny did not. Apparently Maud is dealing with the neglect by drinking.

I feel Clive did not share everything he was thinking with Ginny because she is after all not his equal but his apprentice. He gives her the information she needs to be of help to him, but withholds that which she doesn't really need to know.

I fall into the camp that doesn't have any problem with the moth terminology, but as I said before, I have a background in science so that may be why. I did think it was interesting that Clive was so far ahead of his time with his theories though. I also wasn't surprised that he was so interested in the Robinson trap when he finally got it. Both my father and my father-in-law are mechanically inclined and all you have to do is give them something (like an engine or some piece of electronics) to take apart or put back together and they are happy. Clive struck me as being pretty much the same way (except with moths and moth paraphernalia).

Message Edited by Readingrat on 03-12-2008 08:01 PM

[KxBurns]

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m3girl wrote:

I don't know why Clive would hold back the information on his presentation from Ginny except that it gave him some sort of power.  Perhaps she was proving to be more of a collegue and less of an assistant - thus the need to hold 'power'...

Susan

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Or the other way around? Less of a peer, more of an assistant? I think both possibilities would explain his keeping the secret. Of course, as you suggest, if it's professional competitiveness then it has more to do with Clive's ego, while if my suggestion is true then his treatment of Ginny probably has more to do with her (assumed) impairment. Hard to say at this point! Clive is such a mystery and our understanding of the other characters is so wrapped up in Ginny's point of view...

[katefrias]

I initially took Clive's omission in telling Ginny about his lecture topic as his view of her as an assistant and not an equal.  After reading through the posts, I've come to the alternate view that it is likely due to some flaw in Ginny - emotional, social, mental - I hope it'll be clarified in later chapters.  I had really forgotten that we were getting the story filtered through the voice of Ginny.

I have also been considering the meaning of the chapter title - clearly in the literal sense, the Robinson trap is the obvious thing.  But, other things I have been thinking about are Maud being trapped by her drinking (and being trapped out of Clive and Ginny's moth circle), Ginny being trapped out of Clive's plans, Ginny being trapped into a career as a lepidopterist - which she did not choose herself.

On another note, I agree with many of the previous people who have had trouble getting through this book - I too have a 100 page rule and I'd definitely have given this book up were it not an ARC.

[nfam]

I have to agree with Everyman. This book is becoming incredibly boring. The cliff hangers don't come off and the trivia about moths is wearying.

I think Maud is drinking because she's bored and lonely. If we're bored by moths, think what it must have been like for Maud.

I, like Everyman, will finish the book if only to try to fathom what possessed Barnes and Noble to select it for First Look. It is clearly is a far different class than the House at Riverton.

Nancy

[m3girl]

Thanks for the note.  I guess I never really thought she had an impairment until it became quite obvious via Vi's comments.  This is an effective use of first person - can you trust the narrator?  In this case, maybe not.  She seems to believe that she is 'normal' and has had a successful scientific career.  Right now I am at the end of the chapter before 'Monday' -- when she is up in the attic and I am hoping to learn more about what is really up there...did she really even do anything after Clive left?  Is it all in her imagination?  This is well written and is definitely keeping my interest!  I just wish I was able to stay up all night and finish it.....since it's Friday - maybe tonight!

Susan

[abbyg7]

I'm glad to find that I'm not the only person not loving this book.  I am really having a hard time picking it up.  The moth information is not at all interesting to me and I don't think it adds anything to the story.  I'm not even  all that interested in the family, I don't think I really like any of the characters.  I'll keep reading for a while yet to see if things pick up, but I may just end up skimming the rest.  I'm sure lots of you have finished the book by now.  Does it get better?

[maude40]

I'am enjoying this book very much. It seems there is just enough  moth information and character development  in each chapter to keep things very interesting, for me anyway.  To see how it all fits together in the end is keeping my interest.

Right now I'm wondering how the dress Maud was wearing, mentioned on page 102, is going to come into play later on, as it reminds Ginny of something. Yvonne

[dghobbs]

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KxBurns wrote:

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crazyasitsounds wrote:

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KxBurns wrote:
Here's another possible reason for Clive's secrecy: he views Ginny as untrustworthy, either mentally or as a colleague...

---

That's true, & I hadn't thought of that possibility. My reactions to the events in this novel have been strongly colored by the fact that they're all told from Ginny's perspective. Every time something happens, I take Ginny's narration at face value. I never want to blame her for anything.

I should know better.

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I'm having the opposite problem. I find everything Ginny says to be so suspect that I really don't feel the same antipathy toward Vivi that many readers seem to be feeling.

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I agree KX, that I can't take anything Ginny says at face value. Therefore I don't have any negative feelings (or strong feelings of any kind) towards Vivi. Doug

Message Edited by dghobbs on 03-17-2008 02:36 PM

[Jaelin]

I know how you feel with reading a book and getting halfway and all of a sudden you are just hit in the face with the plot and you can't put it down.  Reminds me of reading Tom Clancy novels. Takes you a quarter of the book to get the back ground the next quarter to get the gist then you can't put it down.....(many long nights of reading to finish his books).  This book was like that I had to force myself to get through the first half then bam all of a sudden.......

my two cents

[AllieK]

I got started late reading this book and up to this chapter have been very bored by the story. I agree with Everyman totally!! If this does not pick up soon, I might not even finish it. TOO much moth info..and find I skim big time over much of these areas. I will plug on...but enough with soooo much moth info!!