Since 1997, you’ve been coming to BarnesandNoble.com to discuss everything from Stephen King to writing to Harry Potter. You’ve made our site more than a place to discover your next book: you’ve made it a community. But like all things internet, BN.com is growing and changing. We've said goodbye to our community message boards—but that doesn’t mean we won’t still be a place for adventurous readers to connect and discover.

Now, you can explore the most exciting new titles (and remember the classics) at the Barnes & Noble Book Blog. Check out conversations with authors like Jeff VanderMeer and Gary Shteyngart at the B&N Review, and browse write-ups of the best in literary fiction. Come to our Facebook page to weigh in on what it means to be a book nerd. Browse digital deals on the NOOK blog, tweet about books with us,or self-publish your latest novella with NOOK Press. And for those of you looking for support for your NOOK, the NOOK Support Forums will still be here.

We will continue to provide you with books that make you turn pages well past midnight, discover new worlds, and reunite with old friends. And we hope that you’ll continue to tell us how you’re doing, what you’re reading, and what books mean to you.

Reply
Contributor
Countrygirl
Posts: 22
Registered: ‎01-28-2008
0 Kudos

Re: Chapter 9: Another Trap

I sometimes think she never felt apart of her family. She seems to be looking for who she is.
Frequent Contributor
ELee
Posts: 418
Registered: ‎10-26-2006
0 Kudos

Re: Chapter 9: Another Trap



DSaff wrote:
I felt very sad for Maud in this chapter. She seems so very lonely, so desperate for Clive's attention. I think she tried to make something nice for him, but watched her "gift" possess him. She was clearly drunk, probably trying to escape the pain in her life.


I totally agree.  And what's more, her husband was an enabler.  Recall, when Vivi had her accident, "Clive showed Maud into the library to get her a drink, which was what she needed at times of crisis".  He apparently didn't have "time" to see to Maud's emotional needs and substituted "medicinal" alcohol ("Mother's sherry") for human compassion. 
Distinguished Wordsmith
Everyman
Posts: 9,216
Registered: ‎10-19-2006
0 Kudos

Re: Chapter 9: Another Trap

A general thought up to this point: unless I've missed it, which is perfectly possible, there is no humor anywhere in this book. I don't recall anybody laughing except for Ginny and Vivi laughing when they meet, and I think that's nervous laughter or relief laughter rather than humor laughter. I don't recall any amusing asides, any lines that made me chuckle, let alone laugh. This is unusual, I think, for novels; almost all of them include humor here and there (and often many heres and theres). But I find the the tone of this book is clinical and even gloomy throughout.

I'm sure that others have found funny lines or episodes in it. Where are they, and why did I miss them?
_______________
I think, therefore I drive people nuts.
Inspired Contributor
Linda10
Posts: 81
Registered: ‎10-02-2007
0 Kudos

Re: Chapter 9: Another Trap

Everyman,
 
I know what you're saying about how an author can get you interested in a subject you're not normally interested in reading.  I have had that happen to me a lot too.  I think if Poppy Adams maybe explained things instead of just throwing out moth terminology, I (and you?) would have liked it better.
 
Now let me say this without being a spoiler.  I know that some people have already finished the book.  I am reading Chapter 14 currently and saying, "Oh, wow!"  Don't give up yet! 
 
Contributor
mimi29
Posts: 7
Registered: ‎10-19-2006
0 Kudos

Re: Chapter 9: Another Trap

My husband and I sometimes disagree about what constitutes a good movie.   I enjoy a good "character study" even if it meanders slowly from one point to another in the story and he prefers a well-done comedy or action film.
 
I feel similarly about this book.  Although the plot might appear contrived (and therefore unappealing) to some, I think it is an interesting study of  the possible consequences of a single incident or experience on the life of an individual or a group of individuals.  One decision/experience leads to a particular consequence and that consequence leads to another and another in the lives of each character. 
 
What makes this book particularly interesting is the way the lines of experience for each character meet and cross from time to time.  Each character is on an indiviidual path, but that path is strongly influenced by interaction with the other characters. 
 
I'm enjoying it!  
Frequent Contributor
nmccarthy
Posts: 35
Registered: ‎12-29-2007
0 Kudos

Re: Chapter 9: Another Trap

I am of the minority here; I find the science of moths quite fascinating. Getting a dose of education intertwined with the untangling of familiy relationships is a bonus indeed.
 
I learned in school that man's ability to think and learn by memory and recognition were complicated advancements in the evolutionary process. Clive theorizes that these abilities are actually a simplification of the evolutionary process - that as animals became more advanced in their biological processes, controlling the body through reflex and reaction became too complicated. (pg. 92)
 
Wow,  I would have never dreamed up this concept on my own. I love a book that makes me think.
 
It is interesting to note that the groping incident takes place during this particular philosophy discussion. Is there some possibility that self-awareness has something to do with the incident? Did Bernard actually inappropriately place his hand on her bottom, but remove it long before Ginny came out of her trance? Could her self-awareness have been "reduced to chemical and mechanical reactions?" (pg. 93) Did her response to a past sexual assault incident take over between the time of the groping and her return to reality?
 
Just thinking out loud here and probably way out of my realm.
 
 
CAG
Inspired Correspondent
CAG
Posts: 218
Registered: ‎01-15-2007
0 Kudos

Re: Chapter 9: Another Trap

Maude is a drunk, no doubt about it and  but I think there is something more there as well, a sadness, sense of failure, I am not sure. I am not sure what to think as far as the Robinson Trap goes.
CAG
Contributor
runnybabbit620
Posts: 20
Registered: ‎01-04-2008
0 Kudos

Re: Chapter 9: Another Trap

Four years later and Ginny is probably finishing up her apprenticeship.  And just in time for the Plymouth Convention.  At the same time Bernard (creepy, handsy colleague) challenges them to discover something while he, in turn, discovers another thing in the vast world of lepidoptery.
 
In their joined studies with Bernard and their new Robinson's Trap, I find it odd that Clive didn't mention anything to Ginny about his mannerisms when he found this dull, tiny one (Nomophila noctuella), but maybe he was under the impression that she had gleaned more at that time from her apprenticeship than she really had at that point in her observations.  (Seeing as Clive has been studying moths and the perfect freak for years, maybe he was too excited by the anomaly to bother with an explanation?)
 
Maybe the other trap is the amount of time and manpower that is going into researching their moth as Bernard studies his?
Frequent Contributor
julyso
Posts: 67
Registered: ‎12-04-2007
0 Kudos

Re: Chapter 9: Another Trap



AnnieS wrote:
Everyman - ditto at the moment.  Enough moths already.  I would love to get Viv's point of view we got some, in the last chapter, but no foundation for the it.  It is starting to drag a bit. 



Everyman & Annie,
I have to agree with both of you, enough of the moths!  I want more of the story, hopefully it will come...
Julie
Frequent Contributor
Lildove3
Posts: 96
Registered: ‎02-05-2008
0 Kudos

Re: Chapter 9: Another Trap

Unfortunately I found this chapter ho hum...not much else to say.
Inspired Contributor
Tasses
Posts: 117
Registered: ‎01-27-2007
0 Kudos

Re: Chapter 9: Another Trap


Everyman wrote:
Well, I confess it.

I am finding the perpetual angst of this book and the way too many obvious attempts to create mystery to be too much for my tastes........ I never want to hear another word about moths (but I know I will).

I frankly don't care whether Ginny pushed Vivi off the bell tower or not. Push, no push, who cares? Not I.

If this were a book I had gotten out of the library, it would go back unfinished. Because I so greatly enjoy the discussions here and enjoy being a part of them I will stick with the book. Even a not very good book can be the basis of a very good discussion.

But unless things get a lot better very soon, this is not a book I will recommend to any friend whose good opinion I value.
.......


Thank you, Everyman for having the courage to write EXACTLY what I was thinking. I've been poking around the board trying to think of something nice to say, but in all honesty, if this had been a library copy it'd be back in the bin by now!
See all my reviews at: Reading Rumpus and Many A Quaint & Curious Volume
Contributor
Des222
Posts: 10
Registered: ‎02-05-2008
0 Kudos

Re: Chapter 9: Another Trap


I believe Maud is definitely drunk, and it saddens me. In the beginning of the book, I thought she may be the "strong one" in the family. I also think that it's Clive's attention she seeks, not so much Ginny's. Something's up with her and Ginny. Also, I thought it was somewhat controlling of Maud to give Clive the Robinson's trap, knowing about his pride, and yet, perhaps it was so loving...to help him reach beyond his pride to the joy of using it. As for the "trap", there must be some tie to the house, in my opinion. Ginny's sort of chosen her own "trap" by isolating herself within its walls. 
Frequent Contributor
crazyasitsounds
Posts: 41
Registered: ‎10-19-2006
0 Kudos

Re: Chapter 9: Another Trap

I think Maud does feel excluded from Clive & Ginny's little entomological world, especially without Vivi there, & it did seem as though she was drunk. The mist interesting part of the scene, in my opinion, is seeing how Ginny's opinion of Clive changes gradually as she watches him interact with Maud & with the trap. At first she doesn't understand how Maud could give Clive a gift he so clearly doesn't want, but she starts to realize that Maud knows Clive better than she does, knows that Clive will come around & love the gift.

Two possibilities come to mind as to why Clive wouldn't tell Ginny about the reclassification proposal. One is that he wanted to surprise & impress her. The other is that he was afraid she would question the prudence of unveiling something like that out of the blue in a lecture. I guess it depends on what Ginny's relationship with Clive is like at this point, what the balance between the father-daughter & professional relationships is.

There's certainly another, less literal trap involved in the title of the chapter, but I have no idea what it is. It's kind of like that line at the end of the chapter about not Ginny not understanding things until two years later.
Frequent Contributor
Jeanie0522
Posts: 43
Registered: ‎12-24-2007
0 Kudos

Re: Chapter 9: Another Trap

I have been enjoying this novel; however, at this point I am also getting tired of the endless detailed moth talk.  Perhaps all the cliffhangers and the moth talk are going to come together at some point and make sense.  I think there is a wonderful story line in here, but I'm finding myself skimming through the science of moths sections to find out more about the people in the story.  This chapter was called Another Trap.  There could be a double meaning here.  Ginny felt it was important to inform us at this point Vivi was going from job to job and also it appears Maud has developed a drinking problem. 
 
Don't give up on this novel.  Some of the bes novels I have read have points where they go into great detail about something that does not seem relevant and then the author finds a clever way to tie everything together.  I'm hoping this is one of those novels.  -Jeanie
Inspired Wordsmith
krb2g
Posts: 289
Registered: ‎02-05-2008
0 Kudos

Spoiler? and Moths

I'm not sure if this information constitutes a spoiler or not, so I'll mark it as such. I've also changed the color of the text of the post to white (if this action is inappropriate, please let me know and I'll edit)--to read it, just highlight the blank space below this line.

I believe that Ms. Adams's UK publishers are selling this book under the title of The Behaviour of Moths. I think that I would have more tolerance for all the material about moths if I were reading the book with that title; I would be able to remind myself that the title let me know that I was in for a lot of moths.


Jeanie0522 wrote:
I have been enjoying this novel; however, at this point I am also getting tired of the endless detailed moth talk. Perhaps all the cliffhangers and the moth talk are going to come together at some point and make sense. I think there is a wonderful story line in here, but I'm finding myself skimming through the science of moths sections to find out more about the people in the story.


Inspired Contributor
no4daughter
Posts: 73
Registered: ‎10-15-2007
0 Kudos

Re: Chapter 9: Another Trap

I also seems to me that, at one time, Maud may have worked with Clive as Ginny is doing now and perhaps she is jealous or knows what is to come and doesn't want that for her daughter.  Maud sure seemed to know a lot about the people (she commented on the lack of women at one point) who would be at the various conventions Ginny and Clive went to and the topics they would be discussing. 
Frequent Contributor
kmensing
Posts: 110
Registered: ‎10-19-2006
0 Kudos

Re: Chapter 9: Another Trap

This chapter totally bored me---until the last page. What is so unique about this moth. And what connection does the moth story have to Maud’s death?

Is Maud falling apart, turning into a drunk, have some sort of mental illness. And if it is a mental illness, has she had it all along, only now that Ginny is older does she realize it? I found it very hurtful that Maud bought the moth trap that Clive specifically had not interest in…..only to find out that it did catch his interest.

Some of this moth information, while interesting, is lost on me. Does anyone else agree that some of this is very overwritten.

Frequent Contributor
kmensing
Posts: 110
Registered: ‎10-19-2006
0 Kudos

Re: Chapter 9: Another Trap

"""I'm sure that others have found funny lines or episodes in it. Where are they, and why did I miss them?"""
 
I haven't found any humor......I just realized that this may be why I'm really not liking this book.  I'm trying, but it's just not happening for me.  If I had bought this book, I would have felt cheated.  Because honestly, after reading the back, I probably would have bought it. 
Contributor
AmyEJ
Posts: 13
Registered: ‎02-05-2008
0 Kudos

Re: Chapter 9: Another Trap

[ Edited ]


Everyman wrote:
A general thought up to this point: unless I've missed it, which is perfectly possible, there is no humor anywhere in this book. I don't recall anybody laughing except for Ginny and Vivi laughing when they meet, and I think that's nervous laughter or relief laughter rather than humor laughter. I don't recall any amusing asides, any lines that made me chuckle, let alone laugh. This is unusual, I think, for novels; almost all of them include humor here and there (and often many heres and theres). But I find the the tone of this book is clinical and even gloomy throughout.

I'm sure that others have found funny lines or episodes in it. Where are they, and why did I miss them?

I've already posted this elsewhere, but I found the discussion of the scientists and their "honing" of their chosen eccentricities funny in chapter 8.  It made me laugh.  I suppose I thought it was funny because I could actually picture it, and it reminded me of what an odd group of people this family is a part of. 
 
 I agree with you though, Everyman, that the tone is clinical and gloomy.  I think it reflects Ginny's personality as a nervous, anxious, and clinical person.  It may not be the book for everyone; I'm actually enjoying it though.  Perhaps I have a hidden love for moths that I never knew about.  LOL


Message Edited by AmyEJ on 03-06-2008 11:25 AM
Frequent Contributor
kbbg42
Posts: 34
Registered: ‎02-01-2008
0 Kudos

Re: Chapter 9: Another Trap

I find the story of the family more interesting than all the moth stuff but I can see that it is important to the story because I feel it is the obsession of the moths that is destroying this family. The topic of moths go hand in hand. I have read a lot of books where the tech stuff is boring but you need it to understand the make up of the charectures. All in all I think Poppy Adams is doing a very good job. We all have to remember that this is her first time writing fiction. For a first novel I must say it's keeping me on the edge of my seat. Good job Poppy!
Users Online
Currently online: 43 members 1,342 guests
Please welcome our newest community members: